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Old 06-08-2014, 08:44 AM   #1
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Gas/diesel

I am starting this discussion to explore the opinions and experiences of our members relating to gasoline-powered tow vehicle as opposed to diesel-powered tow vehicles.

I will start this discussion as I am currently using two different two vehicles for my Airstream. One is a 2005 GMC Yukon XL 2500, four wheel drive, Quadrasteer, powered by the 6.0 liter gasoline V8. Our other tow vehicle is a 2011 Chevrolet Silverado 3500 Duramax four wheel drive.

On our shorter flat country trips, we tow with the Suburban. On the cross country jaunts, we use the Duramax.

Each has advantages and disadvantages which I will expand upon as this thread develops. I hope that this thread can address the differences between gas and diesel without getting into any brand disputes.

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Old 06-08-2014, 09:03 AM   #2
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You are right, Brian, they each have their advantages, and those that swear by one, will probably swear at the other.

From another thread: "Diesels are expensive, heavy, expensive to maintain, burn expensive fuel, and really don't make that much better fuel mileage with all the emissions equipment that must be used on them these days. Certainly not enough better to make it pay.

However, if you ever tow a heavy trailer with a gas truck, and then switch to a Diesel, you will not want to go back.

Another decision you will have to make....is the ease of driving and towing worth the cost? You know what my decision was, and I would only say I would probably go back to a gas truck if I were towing a 25 footer or lighter."

Personally, I would rather drive a 1/2 ton gas truck. It would be a nicer drive. But, I've studied all of them and could not find one that had an adequate tow rating AND weight capacity to do the job. And, I felt if I had to have a 3/4 ton to safely and comfortably handle the weight, I might as well have the Diesel along with it to easily and comfortably handle the tow in any terrain. YMMV
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Old 06-08-2014, 09:06 AM   #3
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When you're towing, it's a lot easier to maneuver your combined rig around the truck diesel pumps than around the gasoline pumps where everyone else is filling and the pumps are not arranged for servicing large vehicles. So the layout of the service stations usually supports the diesel tow vehicle.

Although to counter that, truck stops aren't as common as gas stations, so you have fewer places to refuel if you go diesel.
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Old 06-08-2014, 09:26 AM   #4
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We travel so much that we have been using two tow vehicles for a number of years now. For about five years we were using two different 3/4 ton Suburbans, a 2004 and a 2005. We still have the 2005.

In 2011, we added an Outfitter pop-up tuck camper to the mix. We tow the Airstream with the truck camper on board. The truck camper weighs 3,200#. This required a one ton long bed to do the job. The truck and camper together weigh 11,600#. When we tack on the Airstream, we are hovering around 19,000# of rolling stock. We had never owned a diesel powered vehicle before. All of our research disclosed that we were far beyond the capabilities of a gasoline truck engine. We decided to go with the Duramax/Allison.

Here are a couple of pictures of our rolling stock

Brian
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Old 06-08-2014, 09:35 AM   #5
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Having towed the same AS with gas and diesel, no question in my mind, diesel is it. I never have to worry about hills , etc., I just go., and at any speed I prefer. The only limiting factor is I wish I had four wheel drive, but that is a different discussion. I now tow a much lighter trailer but my choice is still the same, diesel. What little trouble I have had finding diesel, I think twice, is easily made up by gas stations with no access for a trailer. It is a wash. Jim
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Old 06-08-2014, 09:42 AM   #6
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I have towed my 23' International over 20,000 miles since 2008 with a 2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7L Hemi. I only had to slow down in some climbs in Colorado. However, I only got 12 mpg towing, 15 all around, and 20 tops.

I recently traded it for a 2014 Grand Cherokee with the 3.0L diesel, but have yet to tow with it. The mpg difference is fantastic, averaging 26 all around and 31 highway. Given that the Hemi used mid grade gas, my fuel costs are way cheaper with the diesel

Now my question. The Hemi Jeep had a tow haul mode. The diesel does not, nor are good instructions about what gear to limit to. Anyone have info?
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Old 06-08-2014, 09:50 AM   #7
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All of you diesel heads want a diesel, but it surely isn't needed to tow any AS alive. Any of the big 3 truck makers have a really good 3/4 or 1 ton with a great gas engine geared to tow big loads. If you want to get to the top of the hill at 75 mph vs 70 mph with a gas engine, then more power to you. There are so many negatives to the new diesel engines, it's hard to imagine anyone wanting one, except to be in the "in crowd". No matter which diesel rig you choose, there are way too many problems, possible problems, expensive maintenance, and for what? Do you really think you will keep your diesel rig for 300,000 miles? I know many friends that have gas rigs that are approaching 300,000 miles and all they have ever done is change plugs and $20 oil changes. Diesels stink.
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Old 06-08-2014, 09:54 AM   #8
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Pappy19, if you feel "Diesels stink", then may I suggest you don't buy one.
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Old 06-08-2014, 09:55 AM   #9
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I don't think many people would want to drive the same truck for 300k mi.
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Old 06-08-2014, 09:56 AM   #10
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Who said only new diesels ? Are you speaking from experience? You have an 08, I have an 06. I have personally towed with both, most who do not like diesels have not., have you or are you relying on here say? Jim
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Old 06-08-2014, 09:57 AM   #11
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We tow a 25 footer with a 6300# gross weight. Several times each year we travel to art/craft fairs where my wife sells her pottery. The weight of the pottery, and associated equipment, along with the trailer pushed us into 2500 truck territory. I liked the idea of the diesel 2500 truck. I thought hard about buying a diesel but I just could not get past what I perceive as the additional expense of a diesel in our particular case. We have a 2012 Chevy 4X4 with the 6.0 gas engine. We have put over 40,000 miles on it in 24 months of service. It is not a daily driver. It is used for towing & hauling service. I have been very happy with the truck. It has plenty of power for accelerating to highway speed and getting us there safely and reliably towing our trailer while the truck is loaded to the gills with pottery.
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Old 06-08-2014, 09:58 AM   #12
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Just for the record I have owned 3 Ford diesels, a Chevy diesel and a VW diesel pickup. Been there done that.
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Old 06-08-2014, 10:01 AM   #13
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If you get some diesel on your hands just wash them in urea.
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Old 06-08-2014, 10:02 AM   #14
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Then we have to agree to disagree. Thanks for the info pappy... Jim
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Old 06-08-2014, 10:12 AM   #15
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I tow with a diesel. I would love to "drive the same truck" for 300,000 miles. So far I only have 130,000 on it. The only gas truck I towed with was a F150. I certainly like the diesel better. My towing fuel milage went from 10 to 15 mph. My non towing milage went from 17 to 20. I the higher milage even though overall the diesel might or might not cost more to run. There is certainly that much less CO2 returned to the atmosphere if you worry about that. (however particulates and NO emissions are higher). I have not yet driven a 250 ir 2500 with a gas engine. I might like them too. But since I am trying for 300,000 or so on this one it is a mute issue unless something really bad happens.
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Old 06-08-2014, 11:17 AM   #16
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Owned my 05 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9L Cummins 6 speed since 05 has about 170K on it.

We just pulled I-77 into VA from NC, Fancy Gap. First trip to VA Highland Haven, worth the trip BTW. About 7 miles of 7% grade give or take. While it's not the everyday route that Cummins acted like a draft horse in harness it just pulled. Didn't try to race it up the hill but the engine picked up about 15 deg or so on engine temp with A/C running and the EGT was 1000 to 1100 deg F while pulling. Still had engine left over that I didn't need. Temps and EGT dropped back as soon as we crested. A good workout and we maintained about 55 or so pulling in 5th.
My truck is a 6 speed manual and pulling that grade in overdrive, not recommended for the trans, but 5th is 1:1 and it takes it.

On the flats in 6th it hits the sweet spot for the engine and it's just time to enjoy the view.

I got fascinated by the Cummins, own two of them. It's not quick, makes noises that a Diesel nut can recognize the series by sound alone but it's just built for the job, pulling.

One thing I really appreciate about the 05 and 97 is the lack of clutter under the hood. Cab will never have to come off. Today's compression ignition engines have gotten a bit more "involved" under the hood.

But it's so much like Harley vs Honda, smooth vs crunchy, bolt action vs semi auto or any polar opposite of to same thing you can quote.

Make your choice, analyze the numbers but hope to meet ya over a campfire.

Spark plug free since 2005.

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Old 06-08-2014, 11:24 AM   #17
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Gas vs. Diesel

I probably have a unique perspective on this particular issue since I have actually towed the same 2014 27' Eddie Bauer with both a gas and a diesel Ford F-250 within a period of a few weeks. The gas tow occurred when I borrowed a friend's gas F-250 to drive from Michigan to NJ and back to pick up our new AS from Colonial and my on-order diesel F-250 had not yet arrived (1,300 mile trip.) The diesel tow occurred a couple of weeks later when we towed to and from Jackson Center to attend Alumapalooza 5 with our new diesel truck (300 mile trip) as well as some "around the area" practice tows.

There were two principal parameters in the gas v.s. diesel process that I considered when I made my decision: 1) Operating Costs (principally fuel) and 2) Towing Capability (commonly referred to as "torque.")

Operating Costs (i.e., Fuel)
In comparing the MPG's in my example, kindly keep in mind that the gas vehicle we drove was fully broken in (50,000 miles) and the diesel vehicle only had about 750 miles which most diesel experts will agree is well before the diesel is getting it's best mileage. The gas version of the F-250 got 12 MPG on the highway (@65) when not towing and 8 MPG on the highway when towing the 27 ' Eddie Bauer (@60.) The "new" diesel F-250 currently gets about 16 MPG on the highway (@65) when not towing and about 12 MPG on the highway when towing (@60.) At the moment, gas and diesel cost about the same per gallon although until recently, diesel cost about 10% more than gas in our area. In the case of both vehicles, I was amazed at the MPG penalty that resulted from driving the 3/4 ton trucks at higher speeds, much more than I have seen in more conventional family vehicles such as passenger cars and small SUV's!

Assuming 15,000 miles of annual use with 50% towing and 50% not towing, the gas truck would be expected to use 1,563 gallons of fuel for a cost of $6,252 ($4.00 per gallon.) With the same driving profile, the diesel truck would be expected to use 1,094 gallons of fuel for a total cost of $4,376 ($4.00 per gallon.) The annual fuel cost savings of the diesel vs. gas truck is thus projected to be about $1,876. Please note that I am not including any non-fuel incremental costs of operating the diesel vs. gas truck in the following analysis because #1 I do not yet have any experience from which I can get actual data and #2 in the big picture of $4,300 and $6,200 fuel bills, I tend to think that the added annual operating costs of diesel vs. gas would be relatively small (I invite anyone with actual figures for this to weigh in and if it makes a significant difference, I'll gladly update the analysis.)

The current retail price premium for the diesel engine in a Ford F-250 is about $8,300. Thus, with an annual savings of $1,876, the added cost of the diesel engine would be recouped in about 4 1/2 years. Perhaps a little longer if diesel once again becomes more expensive than gasoline and if the other operating costs were significant. This 4 1/2 year period of time was well within my expected period of ownership of the truck so the diesel seemed to be a reasonable investment.

Towing Capability (i.e., Torque)

I did not have the benefit of the "side by side" towing comparison at the time I needed to make the gas vs. diesel decision but now that I've had the benefit of this comparison, I have to admit that it is dramatic. The gas version puts out 405 foot pounds of torque while the diesel version puts out an amazing 860 foot pounds of torque.

So what does this difference mean in the "real world?"

There is no doubt that the gas truck was (and is) capable of pulling the 27 ' AS anywhere. Even going uphill, the gas truck is capable of maintaining speed albeit at the cost of significant downshifting and relatively high engine rev's. But, with the gas truck, you know you are towing something behind you. Acceleration onto the highway is somewhat labored, kind of like driving an underpowered 4 cylinder economy car of yesteryear.

The diesel towing experience is quite different. It's like there is nothing back there. The diesel engine in our truck hums along at about 1,200 RPM's on the highway whether or not we are towing the trailer! When accelerating onto the highway, I need to be careful not to take off too fast for fear of pulling the A-frame out from under the AS! The hills around our area that I've towed on so far are not insignificant, but nothing like what I expect to see "out west." But extrapolating from what I've seen to date, I expect that towing up a 6% grade for a dozen miles will be a lot easier with the diesel than with the gas and I expect a whole lot less "drama."

So, with a 4 1/2 year payback, and vastly superior towing capabilities, I am very pleased with my decision so far.

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Old 06-08-2014, 11:51 AM   #18
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That's a very nice real world assessment, Bob. Thank you for taking the time to provide this information. I am sure that many will find it helpful. I know that I did.

Brian
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Old 06-08-2014, 11:59 AM   #19
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The cost of fuel is a state to state variable in the cost analysis. I have seen highway diesel be as much as $0.80 per gallon higher than 87 octane gas in the last 10 months where I live. Diesel seems to have averaged about 40 to 50 cents more per gallon than regular gas, for several years, in the areas I typically travel. I never have understood why diesel costs more than gasoline. It must be the taxes on highway diesel.
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Old 06-08-2014, 12:17 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridgerunner3 View Post
The cost of fuel is a state to state variable in the cost analysis. I have seen highway diesel be as much as $0.80 per gallon higher than 87 octane gas in the last 10 months where I live. Diesel seems to have averaged about 40 to 50 cents more per gallon than regular gas, for several years, in the areas I typically travel. I never have understood why diesel costs more than gasoline. It must be the taxes on highway diesel.
Diesel costs more than gasoline now because of the EPA mandated ultra low sulphur content. It increases refining costs. In the days before this requirement, Diesel was cheaper than gasoline.
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