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Old 06-10-2014, 10:53 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by pappy19 View Post
You are right of course, but they still offer it in the 450-650 for dump trucks and stake bodies. The new 6.2 V-8 has become a very desireable engine and I know of a few friends that have them as work vehicles and love them. The HP and torque on the 6.2's are very close to the V-10.
Friends of ours who have the 6.2 Chev/GMC most of them like the engine, but hate the fuel mileage. 2 of them absolutely loved the 6.2 until they went on a short caravan with us, then, when they found that they couldn't keep up on the mountain grades, they looked and bought the Dodge/Cummins.
For whatever it's worth...

Larry
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Old 06-10-2014, 11:14 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by r carl View Post
Since when do work trucks require premium?
The new Chevy/GMC 6.2L engine requires a minimum of 91 octane.

John S.
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Old 06-10-2014, 11:15 AM   #73
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Larry, I believe Pappy is speaking of the Ford 6.2 in the HD trucks. The GM 6.2 is not used in the GM HD trucks. GM HD gas engines are 6.0. Your friend's problem with the GM 6.2 as a tow truck may have had to do with the gear ratio on the differential and being a half ton truck.
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Old 06-10-2014, 11:23 AM   #74
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Supply and demand. The oil companies control the supply, the demand is close to constant. So diesel cost more when the oil companies want it to.
It may depend on where you are in North America, but my experience has been that refineries are set up to get a certain percentage of diesel out of a barrel of oil, and it is difficult to vary that percentage. Not too many new refineries being built. That combines to constrict supply. On the demand side, it depends how cold the winter is. Diesel is also sold as home heating fuel, so a long winter drives diesel pump prices up.

Our diesel was more expensive than premium, but has recently dropped to the same as premium.

Diesel has more energy in it on a volumetric basis. If the oil companies were selling energy, diesel should cost more than gasoline.
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Old 06-10-2014, 11:32 AM   #75
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For a discussion on engine operating cycles, there is a lot of discussion about vehicle weights.

It strikes me that the diesel discussion often compares direct injection turbocharged diesels with port injected naturally aspirated gasoline engines. Apples and oranges, no matter which fuel is used.

I am considering a three litre direct injected gasoline engine vs a three litre diesel. Several thousand dollars extra for the diesel. Three year old models have identical residuals. Our diesel fuel has historically been expensive. The torque is nice, but it is flywheel torque and it is wheel torque that pulls you up hills. With an eight speed ZF in either model, I can't see the diesel torque being as much of an advantage.

I have owned two diesels in Europe, but will likely go gasoline next for a tow vehicle.
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Old 06-10-2014, 11:51 AM   #76
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This is not an either or question. You have to except that there are 2 classes of diesel. The older ones and the newer ones. Most of the so called Improvement introduced on the newer diesel have all but destroyed any advantage the older ones had.

The Ford 7.3, last available in 2003, holds a price almost twice that of my 2004 Excursion 6.0. This is a result of the reduced expected longevity of the newer Improved engine.

If one is about to compare for purchase you have to ask yourself will I keep this TV for 200,000 miles or more to justify a diesel. If not, even with diesel priced the same as regular in Jersey, you have a problem justifying the additional cost.

12.5 mpg at 65+mph and 16,700lbs I will keep my oil smasher.
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Old 06-10-2014, 01:07 PM   #77
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If you are going to place blame for failed engines you should place it where it belongs.

IH told Ford the limitation of the 6.0 engine and Ford chose to bastardize it to compete with the Cummings. A mistake.

Stanadyne told GM the pump for the 6.2 was not ready but GM made them supply it and made them stand behind the defective FSD almost bankrupting them.

Thankfully most of these problems can be overcome. After 2 failure of the FSD on my GM 6.2 I mounted it under the bumper for cooling and it will last forever.

As for the Ford 6.0 there are a few modes that remove the weak point also.
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Old 06-10-2014, 02:29 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDS View Post
The new Chevy/GMC 6.2L engine requires a minimum of 91 octane.

John S.
I don't think that engine is available in the 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. Its optional in the 1/2 truck. The 6.0L engine only requires 87 octane.
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Old 06-10-2014, 02:36 PM   #79
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I don't think that engine is available in the 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. Its optional in the 1/2 truck. The 6.0L engine only requires 87 octane.
Yes, the 6.2L is an aluminum block engine, and reportedly not strong enough for heavy duty use.
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Old 06-10-2014, 09:55 PM   #80
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The Mercedes ML and GL are only made in Alabama. The engine options we in the US are allowed to know about do not include the small diesel V8 (4.2L) that is available EVERY where else on the planet.
FYI, besides Alabama, the GL is also assembled in Pune, India. Sadly, the production of the 4.0 liter V8 diesel GL has been stopped -- it was never offered in North America anyway (we can probably blame the more stringent California emission requirements for that). It was a dream SUV: 302 HP, 516 ft-lb of torque from 2000 to 2600 RPM. The current 3.0 liter V6 diesel is still a great vehicle: 455 ft-lb of torque at 1600 RPM is more than any SUV or half ton truck currently in production. Add to that 5500# curb weight and a 121" wheelbase.
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Old 06-11-2014, 06:30 AM   #81
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There are things I love about our diesel. There are things I hate about it. As with anything, there are advantages and disadvantages.

A cost/benefit point of view on a tow vehicle is sort of a strange argument to make (and I've made it, too), since Airstreams probably don't meet a good cost/benefit criteria in the first place - it's not like you'd save enough fuel towing an Airstream to make it less expensive in the long run than an SOB, for example. Flying and staying in hotels is probably even cheaper in the long run than an SOB, especially when you factor in the need for a tow vehicle, insurance, registration, repairs and upkeep, storage, etc. The gas/diesel debate is arguing about relative pennies compared to the huge costs already incurred by having an Airstream.
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Old 06-11-2014, 07:05 AM   #82
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I am with you Brian, I had a 2013 6.2 Ford Platinum F150, then changed that to a 2014 GMC Denali 3/4 Duramax for the 30ft Flying Cloud. Travel mostly mountain terrain, considering torque, and suspension, worth the difference, mileage secondary, but a added feature, 8-9 mpg, versus 14 mpg.
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Old 06-11-2014, 07:35 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Ridgerunner3 View Post
Larry, I believe Pappy is speaking of the Ford 6.2 in the HD trucks. The GM 6.2 is not used in the GM HD trucks. GM HD gas engines are 6.0. Your friend's problem with the GM 6.2 as a tow truck may have had to do with the gear ratio on the differential and being a half ton truck.
Hmmmm......I guess I stand corrected, they both have Chevy, they are both 3/4 ton, and they both had the GM tow package, I don't know the rear axle ratio. Apparently, they had the 6.0 engine.

I used to drive Chevy/GMC trucks for years, but the quality got to the point during the 1980's, that I went to Dodge/Cummins in 1989, and never looked back.

I guess we'll all get to where we're going, eventually..

Larry



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Old 06-11-2014, 09:01 AM   #84
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The 6.2 I was referring to is the new Ford 6.2 V-8, which took the place of the 6.8 V-10 as their HD gas engine, and is also the same engine in the Ford Raptor F-150.
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