Gas/diesel

[Ridgerunner3]

Discussions of tow vehicle preference seems to bring out the passion of personal preference. Various members' Airstream trailer choice/preference does not seem to result in same sort of discussion. I don't think I have ever seen two groups of folks taking a stand about an FC 25 vs. a Classic 30.

[r carl]

I think most people realize there is more than one way to skin a cat.

[Tyvekcat]

Originally Posted by zigzagguzzi

Oil change on my Cummins is 59 dollars at the dealer. Jim

That ^ is a excellent deal ! I can't do that good with synthetic Shell rotella and either a K & N, Baldwin or Wix filter. China-Mart raised the price to $21 a gallon for the Rotella synthetic. Its good to have the synthetic in the winter time.

I can do a little better if I use the regular Rotella 15w-40 in spring -summer changes, but that's just me.
I wouldn't take a plugged nickel for my truck ! No P rated tires on it.
I have always heard around here, 'real trucks rattle.'

Have a good one !

[lsbrodsky]

Reading threads like this were very helpful to me before I purchased my Airstream. I already had a TV and I would not have purchased my Airstream when I did if I concluded that I needed a different TV.
Fortunately or unfortunately half of the posters had opinions that gas V-8's were fine and the other half felt that diesels were necessary. I took the plunge and have no regrets. My 5.3 gas with the factory towing package is great and unhitched my truck rides like a car.
It takes some time on the Forum to learn how to sift through all of the opinions and advice. I agree that tow vehicle opinions seem more polar than anything else, except maybe hitches.
Larry

[switz]

The Mercedes ML and GL are only made in Alabama. The engine options we in the US are allowed to know about do not include the small diesel V8 (4.2L) that is available EVERY where else on the planet. That V6 diesel will still be available everywhere else on the planet as it has been the perfect engine for the ML. The V8 would make the GL a very viable towing machine in the US.

BTW. I travel to the UK at least three times per year and Asia. I have my straight six 2002 3.2L turbo diesel powered station wagon (called an Estate in the UK) still serviced by Mercedes. That engine will still be running when the sheet metal falls off.

The service center literature rack always has very detailed information on every model for me to scan while waiting.

Only the US drivers are in the dark about diesel. Ford and GM make very small diesel powered cars in the rest of the world and one can see 1.3L sub compacts with diesel power everywhere.

[moosetags]

Our 2011 Duramax was the first year of the Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) debocle. We are now approaching 70,000 miles on the truck, and the only problems that we have had are associated with the DEF system. Computer glitches have caused ominous warnings about impending engine shut-downs. In each case the dealers didn't have a clue how to fix it. They just threw parts at it until the warning went away, and could never explain to me what was wrong.

Brian

[pappy19]

I'd sacrifice a few miles to the gallon any day to have a dependable, reliable tow vehicle, knowing that I can go anywhere and get gasoline. I don't have to worry about winter fuel, fuel additives, DEF, regen or a plugged exhaust box. I don't have to worry that my wife or kid fills my diesel tank with gasoline by mistake and I don't have to hear my wife bitch about the diesel fuel smell on me or her after filling. All this I don't have to worry about, and all for 3-4 more miles per gallon less than a diesel engine.

Diesel heads, I was once one of you, and I mean big time, but I saw the light. Nothing wrong with being a diesel head, but I truly believe the newer gas rigs are a much better deal in every respect but getting to the top of the hill first, you win.

[pappy19]

Originally Posted by Bob4x4

Another reason to avoid a gas tow rig.Not trying to pick on you Pappy but the worst mileage I have ever gotten has been 13.5mpg.Granted your trailer is a bit heavier than mine.My friend with the Long trailer like yours has never been below 11 and his truck is over geared with 3.73 gears and some 35'' tires


.Right now we are experiencing some foul weather in northern Ohio. We had a lot of head and side winds coming across the prairie states. I plan on publishing my mpg on this trip at the end for our 2008 V-10. Our last trip I averaged 8.6 mpg towing around 5,000 miles.

Pap
__________________
2008 F-250 4X4 Lariat V-10
2002 Airstream Classic 30' w/SO #2074
2007 Kubota 900 RTV
1996 Ford Bronco
2007 Lincoln LTnother good reason to not tow with gas

My trip last year was about 5,000 miles and I averaged 8.6 mpg on that trip but I didn't experience as much head winds as this year. I know my mileage will be less on this trip, but not home yet so haven't got the final figure. The other thing is that my truck with my heavy front/rear bumpers, all my crap and my 47 gallon Transferflow tank, weighs in at 8450. That's almost 2,000 lbs more than a bare stock truck. I have the stock 4:11 gears and stock 18" tires.

[aftermath]

Moose, I feel like you are leaning toward the diesel. Get what you want.

I drove an older Dodge with the Cummins pulling a 30 foot white box over the passes in Idaho and Montana quite a few years ago. It was an amazing experience. While slow out of the gate, once up to speed this thing never really slowed on the hills. I was, and still am, impressed by the performance.

The issue for me is more of a lifestyle thing and a true need for such a rig. I have driven throughout the west and have pulled my 25FB over some big passes in Wyoming, Washington, Montana and British Columbia and have made it just fine. My gasser slows a bit on the big hills but I seldom am holding up traffic. We don't travel as much as you do so I really don't "need" a diesel.

That said, if I were full timing in a large trailer the diesel option might make more sense for me. The up front cost and increased maintenance issues keep me away from the oil burners. Some of the arguments presented don't hold much water for me. I haven't experienced difficulty pulling into gas stations and haven't seen diesel prices below that of regular gas in the places I travel. I am more interested in day to day costs of owning a TV and don't want to wait 5 years or more to pencil out the numbers. I like to buy new and all I know is that there is a very large price to upgrade to diesel and the maintenance is much greater than the typical gasser.

These are not necessarily bad things provided a diesel would be better for your situation. But for me, it isn't necessary so I will stick with my truck. Best wishes with your decision. You will make the right choice.

[AnnArborBob]

So far I am very satisfied and pleased with my new diesel TV (2015 Ford F-250.) This thread is hopefully interesting and useful to someone making the diesel vs. gas decision for their TV and otherwise amusing to those of us who are already committed one way or the other, so it is serving it's purpose. I has been generally amusing to see the proponents of each type of engine advance their reasoning for preferring one over the other. Kind of like Macintosh vs. Windows! In my case, it's simple: "because I can!"

But, as a member of the pro-diesel crowd, let me make it perfectly clear to anyone facing this decision: you do not need a diesel or even 3/4 ton TV, any gas powered 1/2 ton PU, most full size SUVs and even other "lighter duty" vehicles properly equipped with weight distribution hitches and in some cases beefed up hitch setups can tow most Airstreams of 28 feet or less in length. Just pay attention to the payload you are placing on your TV and your hitch setup and you'll be fine. You might not win the race up Tioga Pass with a gasoline TV, but then who really cares? Let your diesel buddy get to the campground five minutes ahead of you and scope out a good site for each of your Airstreams! Then crack open a cold one.

[Larry C]

Originally Posted by pappy19

You are right of course, but they still offer it in the 450-650 for dump trucks and stake bodies. The new 6.2 V-8 has become a very desireable engine and I know of a few friends that have them as work vehicles and love them. The HP and torque on the 6.2's are very close to the V-10.

Friends of ours who have the 6.2 Chev/GMC most of them like the engine, but hate the fuel mileage. 2 of them absolutely loved the 6.2 until they went on a short caravan with us, then, when they found that they couldn't keep up on the mountain grades, they looked and bought the Dodge/Cummins.
For whatever it's worth...

Larry

[JDS]

Originally Posted by r carl

Since when do work trucks require premium?

The new Chevy/GMC 6.2L engine requires a minimum of 91 octane.

John S.

[Ridgerunner3]

Larry, I believe Pappy is speaking of the Ford 6.2 in the HD trucks. The GM 6.2 is not used in the GM HD trucks. GM HD gas engines are 6.0. Your friend's problem with the GM 6.2 as a tow truck may have had to do with the gear ratio on the differential and being a half ton truck.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by FlashSilver

Supply and demand. The oil companies control the supply, the demand is close to constant. So diesel cost more when the oil companies want it to.

It may depend on where you are in North America, but my experience has been that refineries are set up to get a certain percentage of diesel out of a barrel of oil, and it is difficult to vary that percentage. Not too many new refineries being built. That combines to constrict supply. On the demand side, it depends how cold the winter is. Diesel is also sold as home heating fuel, so a long winter drives diesel pump prices up.

Our diesel was more expensive than premium, but has recently dropped to the same as premium.

Diesel has more energy in it on a volumetric basis. If the oil companies were selling energy, diesel should cost more than gasoline.

[jcl]

For a discussion on engine operating cycles, there is a lot of discussion about vehicle weights.

It strikes me that the diesel discussion often compares direct injection turbocharged diesels with port injected naturally aspirated gasoline engines. Apples and oranges, no matter which fuel is used.

I am considering a three litre direct injected gasoline engine vs a three litre diesel. Several thousand dollars extra for the diesel. Three year old models have identical residuals. Our diesel fuel has historically been expensive. The torque is nice, but it is flywheel torque and it is wheel torque that pulls you up hills. With an eight speed ZF in either model, I can't see the diesel torque being as much of an advantage.

I have owned two diesels in Europe, but will likely go gasoline next for a tow vehicle.

[HowieE]

This is not an either or question. You have to except that there are 2 classes of diesel. The older ones and the newer ones. Most of the so called Improvement introduced on the newer diesel have all but destroyed any advantage the older ones had.

The Ford 7.3, last available in 2003, holds a price almost twice that of my 2004 Excursion 6.0. This is a result of the reduced expected longevity of the newer Improved engine.

If one is about to compare for purchase you have to ask yourself will I keep this TV for 200,000 miles or more to justify a diesel. If not, even with diesel priced the same as regular in Jersey, you have a problem justifying the additional cost.

12.5 mpg at 65+mph and 16,700lbs I will keep my oil smasher.

[HowieE]

If you are going to place blame for failed engines you should place it where it belongs.

IH told Ford the limitation of the 6.0 engine and Ford chose to bastardize it to compete with the Cummings. A mistake.

Stanadyne told GM the pump for the 6.2 was not ready but GM made them supply it and made them stand behind the defective FSD almost bankrupting them.

Thankfully most of these problems can be overcome. After 2 failure of the FSD on my GM 6.2 I mounted it under the bumper for cooling and it will last forever.

As for the Ford 6.0 there are a few modes that remove the weak point also.

[r carl]

Originally Posted by JDS

The new Chevy/GMC 6.2L engine requires a minimum of 91 octane.

John S.

I don't think that engine is available in the 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. Its optional in the 1/2 truck. The 6.0L engine only requires 87 octane.

[SteveH]

Originally Posted by r carl

I don't think that engine is available in the 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. Its optional in the 1/2 truck. The 6.0L engine only requires 87 octane.

Yes, the 6.2L is an aluminum block engine, and reportedly not strong enough for heavy duty use.

[rostam]

Originally Posted by switz

The Mercedes ML and GL are only made in Alabama. The engine options we in the US are allowed to know about do not include the small diesel V8 (4.2L) that is available EVERY where else on the planet.

FYI, besides Alabama, the GL is also assembled in Pune, India. Sadly, the production of the 4.0 liter V8 diesel GL has been stopped -- it was never offered in North America anyway (we can probably blame the more stringent California emission requirements for that). It was a dream SUV: 302 HP, 516 ft-lb of torque from 2000 to 2600 RPM. The current 3.0 liter V6 diesel is still a great vehicle: 455 ft-lb of torque at 1600 RPM is more than any SUV or half ton truck currently in production. Add to that 5500# curb weight and a 121" wheelbase.