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Old 06-14-2014, 11:59 AM   #141
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seem that way right.. but i think the choice between diesel and gas is still a personal preference.

is diesel a better TV,, just bare facts tell the story and in towing, hauling a diesel is better for the most part.. you dont see many OTR tractors that run on gas. nuf said on that.

the overhead of diesel maintenance which is almost double a gasser is one concern for many, plus most guys-gals can do minor repairs to a gasser as that is what we have grown up with.

In my opinion there are strong and weak points for either choice.
Gotta big heavy towed load and wanna travel fast and very far with not much change in vehicle speed - Diesel would be the better engine choice to get that job done.

Lighter towed load and are OK with slower hill climbs and want to spend far less money and maintence. - Gas would be a better engine choice to get that job done

Drawbacks -
The sound and smell of a diesel may or may not be appealing
The initial cost of a diesel is typically greater
A gas engine will have a shorter service life
Resale value of a gas powered rig may be less than a diesel


I for one do not tow frequently. (Under 3000 miles annually) My heaviest trailer weighes in at just over 7000 pounds in the heaviest configuration. I never buy new vehicles and I do all my own maintence. Gasoline will always be my preference. It is less expensive by far, parts are more easily available, requires less special tools and gets the job done as far as I am concerned. If I towed more (or was full timing) with heavier loads I might feel differently.

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Old 06-14-2014, 12:04 PM   #142
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Gas/diesel

I will say that the Duramax engines are a lot easier to fix where they will keep running than the 6.0 fords.

Me and my part time mechanic have done a set of head bolts (to studs) on one of my duramax engines that developed a head gasket leak, as well as several lesser projects.
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Old 06-14-2014, 12:13 PM   #143
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As PS to my post above -the thread title is gas versus diesel like there is a better choice of one over the other. My suggestion would be they are different not better or worse. It really depends on the job to be done.

Both engines can be had in similar vehicles, however I would suggest those choices are built to do different jobs. And any comparision to an over the road tractor is folly in my opinion. Those rigs are built to do one thing - haul 80,000 pounds for a million miles. That job is pretty far from the average RVer.

So it isn't right or wrong, good or bad better or worse it is different and made to do different jobs. The real question is does your engine choice work for you in the job you need to get done?

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Old 06-14-2014, 11:13 PM   #144
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I will say that the Duramax engines are a lot easier to fix where they will keep running than the 6.0 fords.

Me and my part time mechanic have done a set of head bolts (to studs) on one of my duramax engines that developed a head gasket leak, as well as several lesser projects.
when all the bullet proofing is done to a 6.0 they are very dependable and good MPG plus a lot of good power..

now the bullet proofing is about 7K but you get a hell of a good truck for towing.
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Old 06-15-2014, 07:59 AM   #145
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Carl2591 is right on. The Ford 6.0 diesel is the same dependable engine used in most school buses & a lot of commercial trucks. Properly bullet proofed it will run 'forever' and still meet emission testing. Since the 6.0 has a bad reputation among a lot of the uninformed public they can be picked up for low $ and make a great TV. Ford & N'star just made a big mistake early on, opposing lawyers instead of engineers took over, the new truck buyers were left screwed in the process, so now the aftermarket has fixed the technical problems. Sad situation for original owners then and a great situation for folks wanting a very powerful and dependable TV today. PS, if you don't care about emissions, it will also put out as much or more power than any new Ford, GM, or Dodge pickup and give better mileage. The basic engine is great, Ford/N'star just combined to destroy its performance and dependability by tacking a hastey & poorly designed emission system onto it without properly addressing the effects of the junk on the engine. Unforgivable "engineering" and worse customer care! Just my opinion.....

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Old 06-15-2014, 08:12 AM   #146
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Gas/diesel

New FICM, new injectors, new injector wiring harness, EGR fix, replaced head gaskets and studs, rebuilt turbo.... All of this after warrantee.

Before warrantee expired a total of 15 trips to three different dealers, after which the truck would run right for a little while, and after a couple of weeks would run badly or not at all.

The result? A ten year old work truck with 50K miles on it. Now I will admit that when it runs right it is a pleasure to drive and to tow with,,,, but it hasn't run well for half of the meager number of miles it has on it.

The lemon law doesn't apply to business owned vehicles.

Ford blew it big time on this one.

The question now is how many more thousands will it take to make it run?
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Old 06-15-2014, 10:53 AM   #147
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Carl2591 is right on. The Ford 6.0 diesel is the same dependable engine used in most school buses & a lot of commercial trucks. Properly bullet proofed it will run 'forever' and still meet emission testing. Since the 6.0 has a bad reputation among a lot of the uninformed public they can be picked up for low $ and make a great TV. Ford & N'star just made a big mistake early on, opposing lawyers instead of engineers took over, the new truck buyers were left screwed in the process, so now the aftermarket has fixed the technical problems. Sad situation for original owners then and a great situation for folks wanting a very powerful and dependable TV today. PS, if you don't care about emissions, it will also put out as much or more power than any new Ford, GM, or Dodge pickup and give better mileage. The basic engine is great, Ford/N'star just combined to destroy its performance and dependability by tacking a hastey & poorly designed emission system onto it without properly addressing the effects of the junk on the engine. Unforgivable "engineering" and worse customer care! Just my opinion..
Have a mechanic friend here that works for a school district in the buss maintenance department, and he tells me the Ford 6.0 is junk. They are failing almost daily, but they still have several of the old PS 7.3's running and running well.

They have figured out the most economical thing to do with a failed 6.0 is to junk it, and replace it.

Anyone need a school bus with no engine?
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Old 06-15-2014, 12:16 PM   #148
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J Morgan I feel your pain. I spent 9700 for Ford to fix mine two weeks out of warranty when my 6.0 EGR cooler let go in the middle of nowhere TX west of San Antonio. Prior they had replace two turbos all 8 injectors and a host of other "improvements" under warranty. I was ticked and still am, even more so now that I know how to fix it. Got it done right. Heat is the problem with the 6.0 that kills the turbo and everything else. Question on yours, how did you cool your oil? And what did you do about the coolant? EGR delete is not a solution it only addresses a symptom and dirties the air.

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Old 06-15-2014, 12:19 PM   #149
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Have a mechanic friend here that works for a school district in the buss maintenance department, and he tells me the Ford 6.0 is junk. They are failing almost daily, but they still have several of the old PS 7.3's running and running well.

They have figured out the most economical thing to do with a failed 6.0 is to junk it, and replace it.

Anyone need a school bus with no engine?
They are not making a smart decision in doing that. Those engines are easily rebuilt and it can be reliable. All the problems are well known and straight forward to fix. Should they have to do that? No. The 6 point doh! was a disaster for Ford and IH isn't blameless.

But why aren't we talking more about what is working well? Everyone is making good vehicles right now.

If we say, you can't ever buy a Ford because of a 6.doh!, or a GM because of bad injectors and HPFP's, what do you buy? Even the Cummins, which you would be led to believe is flawless, has had major problems. The Killer Dowel Pin, The weak 53 block, it was stupid loud and continues to taint peoples view of diesels in general.

P.S. For brevity, no need to mention the soft spots on the 'yota's, Honda's and Nissans.
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Old 06-15-2014, 12:34 PM   #150
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Steve, I have friends that tell me things too, and yes 7.3 are great but stock low on power and dirty, but they can burn almost an thing that is combustible for fuel, which for the most part can't even be sold anymore. Fords 460 gas engine was great as was the early 216 Chevy 6 and a host of other pre EPA engines in their day. This is today, where black smoke is a no no and 8mpg gassers don't cut it anymore. New diesels exhaust pipes don't even get black inside, unlike car exhaust pipes still do. I personally prefer smoke and noise of a CTD to an EcoBoost, but then that's not the direction big brother is dragging us. BTW question the bad bus motor rumor.

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Old 06-15-2014, 01:08 PM   #151
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Steve, I have friends that tell me things too, and yes 7.3 are great but stock low on power and dirty, but they can burn almost an thing that is combustible for fuel, which for the most part can't even be sold anymore. Fords 460 gas engine was great as was the early 216 Chevy 6 and a host of other pre EPA engines in their day. This is today, where black smoke is a no no and 8mpg gassers don't cut it anymore. New diesels exhaust pipes don't even get black inside, unlike car exhaust pipes still do. I personally prefer smoke and noise of a CTD to an EcoBoost, but then that's not the direction big brother is dragging us. BTW question the bad bus motor rumor.
Just telling what my professional mechanic friend told me, and I don't think he has any reason to tell me anything that is not true. I have no dog in the fight either way, as I have never owned a Ford Diesel truck.
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Old 06-15-2014, 01:23 PM   #152
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Even the Cummins, which you would be led to believe is flawless, has had major problems. The Killer Dowel Pin, The weak 53 block, it was stupid loud and continues to taint peoples view of diesels in general.
The Cummins KDP issue can be a real problem if you don't listen to those who got the merit badge on how easy it is to fix before it happens. I bought a '97 3500 that suffered a KDP failure and we fixed it at home replacing the housing. We did a neighbors KDP tabbing in an afternoons work w/o any special tools and the KDP was when, the '90's? The 53 block was 99-01, over 13 years ago and many were repaired and continued service.

Noise, since the common rail in '03 the Dodge Cummins got a whole lot quieter.

My camping buddy neighbor had one too many failures on his well cared for 6.0L including an intercooler end cap blow clean open and put him and family in a bad spot trying to drive home with his 5'r w/o ANY boost. It barely ran let alone pull. I claim credit for recrimping the end cap back on to make it run again. He real quick traded it for a Ford 6.7L and it didn't run too good, service dept tried unsuccessfully to fix it, found nothing and sorta said that's they way they run. I found a TSB that described his complaint. He took it in and about 6 weeks later or so they finished the replacement of one set of valve guides that required removing the cab. Truck runs great now.

I was talking to a Ford tech last week and we chatted about the cab off status to work on them. He said yeah, kinda old news but the challenge now is any commercial cab that precludes pulling the cab, gotta do it all from the front.

My '05 has about 170K on it and so far just regular oil changes that I do in my driveway, fuel filters, air filters, tires, brakes are original, transmission seal on drive shaft yoke, coolant change and that's about it for maintenance on it to date. I really enjoy being able to open the hood and see or touch almost any external part of that solid 6 cylinder Cummins. Did a couple of oil analysis reports, came back with no concerns.

We took our company truck '07 Dodge Ram 5.9L to the Mid America truck show in KY back in '08. Couple of good old boys looked at that simple inline 6 after seeing the then new 6.4L twin turbo. One said there wasn't enough room under the Ford hood to put the payment book and close the hood. Another said one more coat of paint and it would bulge the hood. Incredible amount of plumbing on those engines. Dodge has gotten a bit more crowded with the newest emission requirements.

Diesels aren't for everyone I'm not here to talk you into buying one thats YOUR choice. But I'd replace my Dodge Cummins with another one (hopefully about the same vintage) w/o even looking at a different brand. Between my two Dodge Cummins, we've got over 370K on them both manual transmissions too. It really showed its heritage pulling my 30' S/O up I-77 into VA up the 7% grade hill to Fancy Gap. The Cummins Diesel impressed me so much a year ago I bought a 2000 VW Beetle TDI manual trans for my commuting duties. I know the VW TDI is a unique animal in its own way.

Spark plugs or Diesel injectors, you're welcome at my campfire.

Gary
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Old 06-15-2014, 02:38 PM   #153
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Yeah right. That is what I paid for my V10 Excursion. That is the whole truck not just the engine. Gas engines today are good for at least 200k and by that time the rest of the truck is toast. Now if I had the money, I would probably have a big diesel truck.

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when all the bullet proofing is done to a 6.0 they are very dependable and good MPG plus a lot of good power..

now the bullet proofing is about 7K but you get a hell of a good truck for towing.
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Old 06-16-2014, 08:11 AM   #154
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Have a mechanic friend here that works for a school district in the buss maintenance department, and he tells me the Ford 6.0 is junk. They are failing almost daily, but they still have several of the old PS 7.3's running and running well.

They have figured out the most economical thing to do with a failed 6.0 is to junk it, and replace it.

Anyone need a school bus with no engine?
while that may be true the biggest problem is they are not doing the repairs needed to bullet proof the engine. if you google "bill hewitt powerstroke help" and watch some of the many video he put out you can learn about the stuff they do to make the engine a good one.

he is the first to admit the original engine is junk.. but proper repairs can make the engine a good one for sure.

most schools maintenance budgets are not with a crap to begin with so trying to do extra stuff to engines in out of their scope hence the bad taste for the 6.0/.
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