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Old 02-16-2014, 09:46 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Ag&Au View Post
If you had made me uneasy, my emoticon would have looked like this , not this .

This is not all new to me. I served 5 years in the military with 14 months in Viet Nam.

Perhaps my sense of humor doesn't play well north of the border, or maybe even south of it for that matter.

Ken
My respects sir.

Vietnam was difficult for your country, as Northern Ireland and the Provos was for ours, (three tours). Falklands in 82 and a couple jaunts to the friendly nation of Belize or British Honduras to discourage Guatemalan military and para military incursions. Along with training some Sultans army on how to shoot straight. I only spent another year than you did in service.

In my original post I just wanted to inform others that firearms are not the answer in close quarter combat. A knife wielded by a confident person can be a game changer.

My wife thinks I'm sweet….and I plan on keeping it that way

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Old 02-17-2014, 01:11 AM   #86
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Do you take them on the road with you? Why? Why not? Do you keep them in your Airstream? TV? Take them into National or State Parks? I've got a long trip coming up and I plan on bringing mine, for those low frequency but high risk situations...

T1CAN,
Here are my thoughts for what it is worth. I'm assuming you have a CCW permit and you have taken training classes and practice very regularly. Being from Washington, you have a disadvantage of a lot of states not recognizing your CCW license. There's a couple of apps that you might find useful: "CCW"which gives you all the individual state laws for transporting, where you can carry, etc., based on your CCW licenses. Also, the app, " Posted!", also informs you of establishments where CCW is not allowed. It seems that if you carry and only have a Washington CCW, you are going to have to pay attention to transport laws, so separately securing ammo, from unloaded guns in non-driver accessible locations will be paramount. If you don't have a CCW license, you are really opening yourself up to legal problems IMHO. Also, the size of magazines will be issues in some states. DC is probably the worst because even spent casings are illegal. It could significantly restrict where you can travel. For me, it depends on where I am going and what states I am traveling through. Some of my trips are to shooting destinations, so I plan carefully. I never stay in parks that specifically do not allow firearms. Gun free zones seem very dangerous to me and if I'm carrying, I respect the wishes of the owner of that establishment. I travel with two German Shepherds, that are regularly trained for protection, have bear spray, and a few knives placed strategically around the RV and on my person. I think bear spray and knives might be a possible solution. The German Shepherds are a bonus for me because we travel to Schutzhund K9 competitions. I hope this information helps with your travel considerations.
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Old 02-17-2014, 07:40 AM   #87
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In 2009 The Credit Cardholders Bill of Rights was passed. Included in the "Miscellaneous Provisions" section at the end was a little item that made it legal to carry loaded weapons into National Parks. It passed in the Senate 67-29, and went into effect in 2010.

So for those that intend to stay in National Park campgrounds where firearms are not allowed - good luck with that.
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Old 02-17-2014, 08:32 AM   #88
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Why do you say firearms are not allowed in NPS campgrounds? They are prohibited in NPS 'facilities' as they are in all Federal buildings so I guess you can't walk into the bathroom. Or there could be a posting if the campground is operated by a concessionaire and they have posted it as a no carry zone.
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Old 02-17-2014, 08:44 AM   #89
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Many of the campgrounds in National Parks are privately operated. That may make all the difference.
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Quote:
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In 2009 The Credit Cardholders Bill of Rights was passed. Included in the "Miscellaneous Provisions" section at the end was a little item that made it legal to carry loaded weapons into National Parks. It passed in the Senate 67-29, and went into effect in 2010.

So for those that intend to stay in National Park campgrounds where firearms are not allowed - good luck with that.
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Old 02-17-2014, 09:11 AM   #90
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I find my fellow campers to be generally a friendly, peaceful folk. Unless backwood camping in grizzly country, I can't really see the need for a firearm.
I totally agree.
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Old 02-18-2014, 07:37 AM   #91
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I thought as long as the gun stayed in your vehicle then it was considered on your property. Concealed carry is a lot different than having a gun in your trailer or vehicle. Most states allow you to have a gun but in many cases it has to be out of reach and unloaded. If I am camping in a National Park, I am not going to throw my gun out the window. I work on a military base and it would be nice if I could keep a gun in the car. I use guns and explosives at work so if I was intent on harming someone, it is not like I would not have access to this stuff. Even though I have a carry permit it does not help me because I can't have a gun in the car 99% of the time because of working on the military base. I am much more afraid of a road rage incident than someone coming up to me and shooting me in a state or national park. I am also not worried about getting shot on a military base.

Perry
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Old 02-18-2014, 08:54 AM   #92
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This talk of the dangers of travel and camping makes me wonder if we should start locking the door when we go to bed at night, much less carry a gun to shoot someone?
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Old 02-18-2014, 09:27 AM   #93
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This talk of the dangers of travel and camping makes me wonder if we should start locking the door when we go to bed at night, much less carry a gun to shoot someone?
If your looking for advice. The answer is most definitely yes. A fair number of campers consume significant quantities of alcohol as a part of the ritual of camping. You don't want some clown entering your trailer in the middle of the night because he doesn't know where he is going, even if he does mean you no harm. In addition, if you are out on the boonies, the locks are two more impediments to slow down a bear in the process of getting to the food smells coming from your trailer.

I live near a couple college towns. It is not unusual to read about some incident caused by some very drunk person walking into a unlocked house thinking it was theirs. In the one I remember most, a young woman did just that, and then walked into what she apparently thought was her bedroom where she was shot by the home owner who was in bed. I found it especially ironic that the owner of the house was concerned enough to keep a gun by his bed, but not enough to lock his front door.


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Old 02-18-2014, 10:12 AM   #94
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If your looking for advice. The answer is most definitely yes. A fair number of campers consume significant quantities of alcohol as a part of the ritual of camping. You don't want some clown entering your trailer in the middle of the night because he doesn't know where he is going, even if he does mean you no harm. In addition, if you are out on the boonies, the locks are two more impediments to slow down a bear in the process of getting to the food smells coming from your trailer.

I live near a couple college towns. It is not unusual to read about some incident caused by some very drunk person walking into a unlocked house thinking it was theirs. In the one I remember most, a young woman did just that, and then walked into what she apparently thought was her bedroom where she was shot by the home owner who was in bed. I found it especially ironic that the owner of the house was concerned enough to keep a gun by his bed, but not enough to lock his front door.


Ken
Ken makes good points. I was going to post similar but decided not to enter that particular fray. But yes, a similar thing happened in an apartment complex where my oldest daughter lived while in college. Drunk walked in thru the wrong door.
I lock my doors while inside. My feeling is, why give up "any" strategic advantage, no matter how small it may seem. Extra seconds can count for a lot when forced into a defensive situation.
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Old 02-18-2014, 10:14 AM   #95
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To clarify my earlier post: loaded weapons ARE allowed in National Parks. Previous to that rider (in the credit card bill) they were NOT. You could have a weapon, but it had to be unloaded. Now it may be loaded.

It is still illegal to discharge a weapon in the National Parks, however.

The forum moderator raised a question about private campground vendors - good point. I have a CCW, so this is important to know. I called Xanterra , as they are the concessionaire that operates the campgrounds in many National Parks in the West - Yellowstone, Rocky, Glacier, Grand Canyon etc... They were clueless in the corporate office in Denver, but suggested I call the specific desk for the specific Park, so I then called the reservation desk for Yellowstone. They told me loaded firearms ARE now allowed in the campgrounds in Yellowstone the same as the rest of the Park - she read the ordinance to me verbatim. Not allowed in the visitor centers, as those are Federal Buildings.

I am just making people aware of this little provision that was slipped in on a completely unrelated piece of legislation. And because it is legal, you could, and should, expect that there may be armed citizens and/or loaded weapons sharing campgrounds in National Parks with you.

The biggest concern I have with the policy is this: if you let your kids/grandkids run around with other campers' kids (and I would hope you do - that's part of the fun!) and you are not a gun family, please teach them a few important things about gun safety, as they may encounter them in another camp. Not all gun owners are responsible about securing their firearms.
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Old 02-18-2014, 11:30 AM   #96
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My question about locking the door was somewhat tongue in cheek . . . but we seldom do. And when we do I suspect we are in the wrong place.

I know many choose to bring a gun with them when camping these days for security. I don't like it and consider it a much greater risk to those around them than the extremely unlikely event they will shoot someone to protect themselves. I believe the source of this fear mongering is the business of selling firearms.

We have firearms at home for sport and hunting, been traveling (worldwide) and camping for some 50 years. Both military retirees, we're not new to this. Firearms in the campground are dangerous to all of us (especially kids), even to careful owners.

Take some time to think this through before doing it. The chance that it will ever save you barely exists. The chance that it will get you in a great deal of trouble is much higher.
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Old 02-18-2014, 12:30 PM   #97
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My question about locking the door was somewhat tongue in cheek . . . but we seldom do. And when we do I suspect we are in the wrong place.

I know many choose to bring a gun with them when camping these days for security. I don't like it and consider it a much greater risk to those around them than the extremely unlikely event they will shoot someone to protect themselves. I believe the source of this fear mongering is the business of selling firearms.

We have firearms at home for sport and hunting, been traveling (worldwide) and camping for some 50 years. Both military retirees, we're not new to this. Firearms in the campground are dangerous to all of us (especially kids), even to careful owners.

Take some time to think this through before doing it. The chance that it will ever save you barely exists. The chance that it will get you in a great deal of trouble is much higher.
I also have fire arms in the house and have been around them my entire life. I shot competively in the junior NRA program growing up. I was trained again in their use in the military. As recently as 18 months ago I took a firearms safety course.

However, I personally feel no need whatsoever to carry one for protection, either in any part of civilization or the wilderness I chose to be in. If there is a place where I would feel that need, I would stay away from that place. To me that is common sense.

There was a time when I would have tried to convince others to agree with my feeling about this. However in recent years, I have discovered that it does not take any time at all for any discussion of these issues to quickly turn from logic to deep emotion on both sides. I am not going to convince anyone who carries a firearm routinely for defense to agree with me, and they will never convince me that I should do as they do or that there is any legitimate reason for them to do so.

My father was in his late eighties and he and my mom were having a great deal of trouble living in their house. However he flatly refused to move to a nice retirement community where they would still have their own house, but not have to keep up the landscaping, etc. The sole reason was that he was afraid they'd take his guns away. (they would not have) They have both passed away now, but I still look at that sadly when I think how much more enjoyable their last years would have been for my mom.

The trouble with these hot issues, is that simply stating how you feel is generally accepted as you saying that others who feel differently are wrong. That doesn't have to be so, they are just different.

Ken
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Old 02-18-2014, 04:30 PM   #98
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Very well said, Ken!!
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