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Old 02-12-2014, 06:57 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by dkottum View Post
I wish we could know which campers had guns with them so we could camp somewhere else, somewhere safer.

The almost childish slogans and quips used over and over to promote gun purchases as a safety measure in the campground are intended to promote fear and more gun purchases. I believe there's nothing safe or sensible about it, it's going in the wrong direction.

Some folks have to bring guns to the campground and that's the way it is. We know the reasons by now, no matter how unreasonable it sounds. We are on a six month trip covering much of the country. This is not a hunting trip. Our guns are at home and our greatest fear of violence would be the guy next door with one defending whatever he thinks he needs to defend.
Well said - I'd prefer to stay in a campground that did not allow firearms. Aluminum will not stop a stray bullet.
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Old 02-12-2014, 07:18 PM   #58
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What? Oh, Dear!!

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Originally Posted by T1NCAN View Post
Do you take them on the road with you? Why? Why not? Do you keep them in your Airstream? TV? Take them into National or State Parks? I've got a long trip coming up and I plan on bringing mine, for those low frequency but high risk situations...
Sorry,
This is too upsetting to discuss on this forum.
Guns are a huge liability. Be prepared.
Gunlaws for the 50 States
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Old 02-12-2014, 07:43 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by dkottum View Post
I wish we could know which campers had guns with them so we could camp somewhere else, somewhere safer.

The almost childish slogans and quips used over and over to promote gun purchases as a safety measure in the campground are intended to promote fear and more gun purchases. I believe there's nothing safe or sensible about it, it's going in the wrong direction.

Some folks have to bring guns to the campground and that's the way it is. We know the reasons by now, no matter how unreasonable it sounds. We are on a six month trip covering much of the country. This is not a hunting trip. Our guns are at home and our greatest fear of violence would be the guy next door with one defending whatever he thinks he needs to defend.
When camping, I bring a hammer, hatchet, knives, explosives (gasoline and canisters of propane), bear pepper spray, and a 6,000 lb. vehicle capable of inflicting mass destruction and pain. Fortunately, I have only had to use them for peaceful activities, but it is nice to know you have the tools you need.
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Old 02-12-2014, 07:47 PM   #60
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It's too bad Airforums doesn't have a "Firearms" or "Hunting" subforum.

Camping and shooting.
My two favorite pastimes.

To answer OP's question: yes, I always carry.
It's a good idea to know the laws from state to state.
usacarry.com has a great interactive map to check reciprocity between states for CPL's
This is the best idea I've read on a gun thread.

Set up a separate subforum on firearms or some similar topic.

First of all, I do not carry firearms when I travel. However I believe those that do or wish to discuss it should be able to talk about without being harassed by those who do not agree with the practice.

People like me who are not interested, can simply use the forum tools to ignore that forum or if they choose, read it and contribute constructively or simply observe.

I agree that it seems to turn into a political sometimes nasty debate. However, if the forum was for that specific or similar subjects, it would not be difficult to determine who were the disruptive parties were.

Think about it: to keep the forums civil, we don't have to all think alike, we only need to be respectful of how others think.

If you wish to straighten out those who think differently, there are many other venues on the internet for just that purpose.

Ken
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Old 02-12-2014, 07:54 PM   #61
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A few quotes to think hard about folks.........

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

and

People sleep peaceably in their (trailer!) beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
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Old 02-12-2014, 09:46 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by T1NCAN View Post
Do you take them on the road with you? Why? Why not? Do you keep them in your Airstream? TV? Take them into National or State Parks? I've got a long trip coming up and I plan on bringing mine, for those low frequency but high risk situations...

T1NCAN,

I do almost always carry a handgun with me, on my person or in the vehicle. I am licensed to carry a concealed weapon, and I practice at least weekly at local indoor/outdoor ranges and IDPA competitions. For me, target shooting and competition matches are enjoyable activities that build skill and create fun challenges, no different than golf to many.

When I travel, I often stop at local ranges for the opportunity to "shoot 50 holes", but I also enjoy reading, bicycling, auto racing, fishing, and hunting.

I never open carry, whether legal or not. I think this is foolish and disruptive behavior, and it immediately raises concern among people who have no understanding of your intentions.

I do appreciate that I have the right to carry a firearm, using common sense and responsibility with some good judgment thrown into the mix. I also believe that many people have no business owning or carrying firearms; they are inadequately trained and have no common sense or practical understanding of safety.

If you choose to carry, I would suggest:
1. Make sure you know the local laws/regulations regarding concealed carry.
2. Never open carry a firearm when interacting with the general public
3. Use common sense safety techniques

As a good firearm citizen, no one should ever know that you are carrying a concealed weapon.
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Old 02-12-2014, 10:18 PM   #63
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Perry,

All good advice and pretty much describes what we do - very seldom away from the campground after supper for example and certainly not late in the evening or in any areas that we have a bad feeling about!

So mainly the only slight concern as to our vulnerability in the US with Ontario plates on our TV is stopping overnight at Truck stops etc when we are trying to cover a good distance in the first day or so heading south.

I am pretty sure that Mace, Pepper spray, tasers etc are no permitted in Canada. I guess I bend the rules a little here at least in a feeble attempt at self defense! As you know that stuff is very readily available at US flea markets / swap meets.

I have heard to that wasp sprays are a very effective deterrent. Bought some and keep it in the trailer - it shoots a long way. Only thing I would be concerned about in any contact with some thug with a gun would be if it doesn't completely incapacitate him, then we might be even in a worse situation! Maybe just better to give them what they want!

I'll probably never know what I will do until faced with the situation!

Certainly wouldn't be answering any knock on the AS door late at night in a truck stop car park though!

Having said all that. no point being paranoid, we have used Flying J truckstops fro the lat fifteen years with nary an issue. Hope I haven't jinxed myself now! Never tried a Wally World or a Cracker Barrel. I suppose bad luck could strike equally at any overnight stop of that type.

Brian.

As a Canadian living in the US, near the border, I cross back into Canada quite frequently. Every time I cross, the Canadian customs officer asks whether I have any mace with me, which apparently is illegal there. I never have had & never really thought about it, but one time the officer told me the rule was pretty ridiculous because I was allowed to bring "Bear spray" into Canada, which she said was mace with a different label. So, I would imagine that if you are paranoid, you could carry bear spray with you everywhere.
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Old 02-13-2014, 08:44 AM   #64
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As a Canadian living in the US, near the border, I cross back into Canada quite frequently. Every time I cross, the Canadian customs officer asks whether I have any mace with me, which apparently is illegal there. I never have had & never really thought about it, but one time the officer told me the rule was pretty ridiculous because I was allowed to bring "Bear spray" into Canada, which she said was mace with a different label. So, I would imagine that if you are paranoid, you could carry bear spray with you everywhere.
Colin
I don't know if this is true, but I have been told you can take bear spray into Canada to defend yourself against bears. But if asked what you are going to use it for, if you say for defense against a human attacker, that is illegal and it will be confiscated.
Again, I have no first hand experience in the situation, as I have not been to Canada since 1998.
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Old 02-15-2014, 12:46 PM   #65
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We have visited Canada often and are frequently asked about mace or other spray. I tell them we have bear spray and that is ok; mace and perhaps wasp spray are not. If you bring a long gun (Canadian for rifle), I believe you have to register it; don't know for certain because we don't have one. The bear spray is so old it probably doesn't do anything anymore, but a bear might not know it. We've never had to use it.

Fear is like a virus—it can spread and spread and eventually leads people to arming themselves. The topic becomes so controversial that we are not even allowed to talk about it. When I was a kid, guns were rare and handguns heavily regulated. We did not fear shootings. A schoolyard fight was the worst that would happen and they usually lasted about a minute. A lot of boys had penknives because it was normal to have one, but I never heard of anyone using one for defense or attack. Fear has infected a lot of people since and there are multiple causes for that, one being local TV news that promotes it for ratings and features shootings over and over (or they talk about. We learned from western movies that guns were dangerous and when you go into town for a drunken time, you have to leave your handgun with the marshall so you don't start shooting—no one questioned that except the guys in black hats. The good guys left defense to the marshall. Now fear has gripped the country and distrust of the government has led people to have handguns. We choose not to live in fear and have no guns. No one has attacked us and we haven't had to kill an injured animal. How often does that happen?—last week a guy in Grand Junction shot a dog that attacked a kid, injured the dog, shot it again, still didn't kill the dog and wouldn't shoot again, eventually the dog died. Luckily he didn't hit the kid, but when he tried to kill the injured dog at point blank range, he missed. This is the only time I have ever heard of a civilian using a gun to protect someone and it worked. Have any of the gun owners ever used their guns for self defense or to protect anyone? How did that work out? I applaud the gun owners that practice regularly. I also note that cops who practice regularly often miss and hit bystanders instead. Any confrontation means nervous people doing dangerous things that can affect many innocent people. At least a penknife can do little damage.

Gene
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Old 02-15-2014, 12:49 PM   #66
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Fear is like a virus—it can spread and spread
Truth, that.

Some of our friends think we're crazy that we're planning to let our kids walk to school - alone. Fear, fear, fear everywhere.

The reality is that we've never been safer. I don't know the numbers for the US, but here in Canada crime numbers have been on a steady downward trend since the mid-1970's.
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Old 02-15-2014, 01:19 PM   #67
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Andy, crime numbers are way down in the US too. Here we have a big issue with racism which is fed by fear of anyone who looks different. Canadians have accepted different types of people much better than us and we could learn a lot from you.

Of course, in Toronto crime is way up with Rob Ford around. Send him here—we need some comic relief.

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Old 02-16-2014, 10:51 AM   #68
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As a Texas Concealed Handgun Instructor for the past 20 years I have done quite a lot of research into the carry and use of handguns in personal protection and defensive situations. With that in mind I would like to respond to a previous post.
Q: Have any of the gun owners ever used their guns for self defense or to protect anyone?
A: Yes, it happens on a regular basic somewhere in the US.
Q: How did that work out?
A: In many cases it worked out well for the citizen that was under attack, not so well for the gremlins.
Statement: I also note that cops who practice regularly often miss and hit bystanders instead.
Reply: In high stress situations anyone, regardless of training, may tend to shoot poorly. This results in a lot of rounds being fired that don't hit the intended target. Tragically, it does happen, although not that often, that innocent bystanders are wounded or killed.
Statement: Any confrontation means nervous people doing dangerous things that can affect many innocent people.
Reply: Very true statement. This is why part of the Texas CHL program deals with non-violent dispute resolution and the penalties for the unlawful use of deadly force.
If anyone would like verification please feel free to pm me, I will be happy to provide documentation.
That said, this is probably one of the most non-productive threads that has appeared on the forums. I seriously doubt if it will change anyone's opinion, pro or con, as to the carry of firearms for protection.
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Old 02-16-2014, 11:22 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by SStar View Post
As a Texas Concealed Handgun Instructor for the past 20 years I have done quite a lot of research into the carry and use of handguns in personal protection and defensive situations. With that in mind I would like to respond to a previous post.
Q: Have any of the gun owners ever used their guns for self defense or to protect anyone?
A: Yes, it happens on a regular basic somewhere in the US.
Q: How did that work out?
A: In many cases it worked out well for the citizen that was under attack, not so well for the gremlins.
Statement: I also note that cops who practice regularly often miss and hit bystanders instead.
Reply: In high stress situations anyone, regardless of training, may tend to shoot poorly. This results in a lot of rounds being fired that don't hit the intended target. Tragically, it does happen, although not that often, that innocent bystanders are wounded or killed.
Statement: Any confrontation means nervous people doing dangerous things that can affect many innocent people.
Reply: Very true statement. This is why part of the Texas CHL program deals with non-violent dispute resolution and the penalties for the unlawful use of deadly force.
If anyone would like verification please feel free to pm me, I will be happy to provide documentation.
That said, this is probably one of the most non-productive threads that has appeared on the forums. I seriously doubt if it will change anyone's opinion, pro or con, as to the carry of firearms for protection.
You are 100% correct in your last paragraph. However there are several just like it.

First of all I am not at all on the same side of this very polarizing subject as you are.

However, I see no reason why a forums member who is on the other side of the issue from me , cannot ask a very legitimate question about how others that do carry firearms handle them while traveling, without people telling him why he should not be handling them in the first place. Firearms are a legal part of our society. Unless and until that changes, members should be able to discuss the subject without those who disagree (including me) feeling the need to change the subject to whether or not they should carry firearms. In my opinion, that is totally irrelevant in the structure of what these forums are for.

This is a bit of exaggeration, but basically the same thing.

Someone starts a thread that asks, "How do you keep your pets safe while travelling".

I then reply with, "Why are you bringing your pets in the first place. They are dangerous to all of us, because they can spread disease, mess up the campground and bite other campers."

I know that sounds ridiculous, but it is exactly the same thing. I don't feel that way, but I'm sure there are a few that do.

My advice to all:

Don't use the forums to argue about politically hot topics. If someone posts something that pushes your buttons, step back for a bit and ask yourself is this the place to be getting emotional about politics. I think most would agree with me that it is not.

Ken
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Old 02-16-2014, 11:58 AM   #70
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In my (exceedingly) brief tenure as a moderator in training for this forum, I adopted the perspective (rightly or not) that this forum is not as much like "the public square" as it can tend to feel (for those of us from the US). Rather, it is more like a person's home. That person has invited everyone in to enjoy one another's company and hopefully learn a lot from each other. And, as a "private home" analogy might go - the homeowner has some rules about what's fair and not fair for conversation.

I get that many topics are emotionally charged - this being one of them. It's not that firearms can't be discussed, but like hitches and other heated topics, it seems to quickly go from opposing views legitimately understanding and appreciating one another's perspectives (despite disagreeing) to highly charged "evangelizing" of both sides - all the while forgetting the homeowner's kind invitation to enjoy the party here within some well established rules - chief among them - to be nice.

Have a salubrious day, everyone :-)
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