Firearms

[7GenTex]

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

and

People sleep peaceably in their (trailer!) beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

[Hibby]

Originally Posted by T1NCAN

Do you take them on the road with you? Why? Why not? Do you keep them in your Airstream? TV? Take them into National or State Parks? I've got a long trip coming up and I plan on bringing mine, for those low frequency but high risk situations...

T1NCAN,

I do almost always carry a handgun with me, on my person or in the vehicle. I am licensed to carry a concealed weapon, and I practice at least weekly at local indoor/outdoor ranges and IDPA competitions. For me, target shooting and competition matches are enjoyable activities that build skill and create fun challenges, no different than golf to many.

When I travel, I often stop at local ranges for the opportunity to "shoot 50 holes", but I also enjoy reading, bicycling, auto racing, fishing, and hunting.

I never open carry, whether legal or not. I think this is foolish and disruptive behavior, and it immediately raises concern among people who have no understanding of your intentions.

I do appreciate that I have the right to carry a firearm, using common sense and responsibility with some good judgment thrown into the mix. I also believe that many people have no business owning or carrying firearms; they are inadequately trained and have no common sense or practical understanding of safety.

If you choose to carry, I would suggest:
1. Make sure you know the local laws/regulations regarding concealed carry.
2. Never open carry a firearm when interacting with the general public
3. Use common sense safety techniques

As a good firearm citizen, no one should ever know that you are carrying a concealed weapon.

[Colin H]

Originally Posted by Wingeezer

Perry,

All good advice and pretty much describes what we do - very seldom away from the campground after supper for example and certainly not late in the evening or in any areas that we have a bad feeling about!

So mainly the only slight concern as to our vulnerability in the US with Ontario plates on our TV is stopping overnight at Truck stops etc when we are trying to cover a good distance in the first day or so heading south.

I am pretty sure that Mace, Pepper spray, tasers etc are no permitted in Canada. I guess I bend the rules a little here at least in a feeble attempt at self defense! As you know that stuff is very readily available at US flea markets / swap meets.

I have heard to that wasp sprays are a very effective deterrent. Bought some and keep it in the trailer - it shoots a long way. Only thing I would be concerned about in any contact with some thug with a gun would be if it doesn't completely incapacitate him, then we might be even in a worse situation! Maybe just better to give them what they want!

I'll probably never know what I will do until faced with the situation!

Certainly wouldn't be answering any knock on the AS door late at night in a truck stop car park though!

Having said all that. no point being paranoid, we have used Flying J truckstops fro the lat fifteen years with nary an issue. Hope I haven't jinxed myself now! Never tried a Wally World or a Cracker Barrel. I suppose bad luck could strike equally at any overnight stop of that type.

Brian.

As a Canadian living in the US, near the border, I cross back into Canada quite frequently. Every time I cross, the Canadian customs officer asks whether I have any mace with me, which apparently is illegal there. I never have had & never really thought about it, but one time the officer told me the rule was pretty ridiculous because I was allowed to bring "Bear spray" into Canada, which she said was mace with a different label. So, I would imagine that if you are paranoid, you could carry bear spray with you everywhere.
Colin

[gmw photos]

Originally Posted by Colin H

As a Canadian living in the US, near the border, I cross back into Canada quite frequently. Every time I cross, the Canadian customs officer asks whether I have any mace with me, which apparently is illegal there. I never have had & never really thought about it, but one time the officer told me the rule was pretty ridiculous because I was allowed to bring "Bear spray" into Canada, which she said was mace with a different label. So, I would imagine that if you are paranoid, you could carry bear spray with you everywhere.
Colin

I don't know if this is true, but I have been told you can take bear spray into Canada to defend yourself against bears. But if asked what you are going to use it for, if you say for defense against a human attacker, that is illegal and it will be confiscated.
Again, I have no first hand experience in the situation, as I have not been to Canada since 1998.

[Gene]

We have visited Canada often and are frequently asked about mace or other spray. I tell them we have bear spray and that is ok; mace and perhaps wasp spray are not. If you bring a long gun (Canadian for rifle), I believe you have to register it; don't know for certain because we don't have one. The bear spray is so old it probably doesn't do anything anymore, but a bear might not know it. We've never had to use it.

Fear is like a virus—it can spread and spread and eventually leads people to arming themselves. The topic becomes so controversial that we are not even allowed to talk about it. When I was a kid, guns were rare and handguns heavily regulated. We did not fear shootings. A schoolyard fight was the worst that would happen and they usually lasted about a minute. A lot of boys had penknives because it was normal to have one, but I never heard of anyone using one for defense or attack. Fear has infected a lot of people since and there are multiple causes for that, one being local TV news that promotes it for ratings and features shootings over and over (or they talk about. We learned from western movies that guns were dangerous and when you go into town for a drunken time, you have to leave your handgun with the marshall so you don't start shooting—no one questioned that except the guys in black hats. The good guys left defense to the marshall. Now fear has gripped the country and distrust of the government has led people to have handguns. We choose not to live in fear and have no guns. No one has attacked us and we haven't had to kill an injured animal. How often does that happen?—last week a guy in Grand Junction shot a dog that attacked a kid, injured the dog, shot it again, still didn't kill the dog and wouldn't shoot again, eventually the dog died. Luckily he didn't hit the kid, but when he tried to kill the injured dog at point blank range, he missed. This is the only time I have ever heard of a civilian using a gun to protect someone and it worked. Have any of the gun owners ever used their guns for self defense or to protect anyone? How did that work out? I applaud the gun owners that practice regularly. I also note that cops who practice regularly often miss and hit bystanders instead. Any confrontation means nervous people doing dangerous things that can affect many innocent people. At least a penknife can do little damage.

Gene

[andreasduess]

Originally Posted by Gene

Fear is like a virus—it can spread and spread

Truth, that.

Some of our friends think we're crazy that we're planning to let our kids walk to school - alone. Fear, fear, fear everywhere.

The reality is that we've never been safer. I don't know the numbers for the US, but here in Canada crime numbers have been on a steady downward trend since the mid-1970's.

[Gene]

Andy, crime numbers are way down in the US too. Here we have a big issue with racism which is fed by fear of anyone who looks different. Canadians have accepted different types of people much better than us and we could learn a lot from you.

Of course, in Toronto crime is way up with Rob Ford around. Send him here—we need some comic relief.

Gene

[SStar]

As a Texas Concealed Handgun Instructor for the past 20 years I have done quite a lot of research into the carry and use of handguns in personal protection and defensive situations. With that in mind I would like to respond to a previous post.
Q: Have any of the gun owners ever used their guns for self defense or to protect anyone?
A: Yes, it happens on a regular basic somewhere in the US.
Q: How did that work out?
A: In many cases it worked out well for the citizen that was under attack, not so well for the gremlins.
Statement: I also note that cops who practice regularly often miss and hit bystanders instead.
Reply: In high stress situations anyone, regardless of training, may tend to shoot poorly. This results in a lot of rounds being fired that don't hit the intended target. Tragically, it does happen, although not that often, that innocent bystanders are wounded or killed.
Statement: Any confrontation means nervous people doing dangerous things that can affect many innocent people.
Reply: Very true statement. This is why part of the Texas CHL program deals with non-violent dispute resolution and the penalties for the unlawful use of deadly force.
If anyone would like verification please feel free to pm me, I will be happy to provide documentation.
That said, this is probably one of the most non-productive threads that has appeared on the forums. I seriously doubt if it will change anyone's opinion, pro or con, as to the carry of firearms for protection.

[Ag&Au]

Originally Posted by SStar

As a Texas Concealed Handgun Instructor for the past 20 years I have done quite a lot of research into the carry and use of handguns in personal protection and defensive situations. With that in mind I would like to respond to a previous post.
Q: Have any of the gun owners ever used their guns for self defense or to protect anyone?
A: Yes, it happens on a regular basic somewhere in the US.
Q: How did that work out?
A: In many cases it worked out well for the citizen that was under attack, not so well for the gremlins.
Statement: I also note that cops who practice regularly often miss and hit bystanders instead.
Reply: In high stress situations anyone, regardless of training, may tend to shoot poorly. This results in a lot of rounds being fired that don't hit the intended target. Tragically, it does happen, although not that often, that innocent bystanders are wounded or killed.
Statement: Any confrontation means nervous people doing dangerous things that can affect many innocent people.
Reply: Very true statement. This is why part of the Texas CHL program deals with non-violent dispute resolution and the penalties for the unlawful use of deadly force.
If anyone would like verification please feel free to pm me, I will be happy to provide documentation.
That said, this is probably one of the most non-productive threads that has appeared on the forums. I seriously doubt if it will change anyone's opinion, pro or con, as to the carry of firearms for protection.

You are 100% correct in your last paragraph. However there are several just like it.

First of all I am not at all on the same side of this very polarizing subject as you are.

However, I see no reason why a forums member who is on the other side of the issue from me , cannot ask a very legitimate question about how others that do carry firearms handle them while traveling, without people telling him why he should not be handling them in the first place. Firearms are a legal part of our society. Unless and until that changes, members should be able to discuss the subject without those who disagree (including me) feeling the need to change the subject to whether or not they should carry firearms. In my opinion, that is totally irrelevant in the structure of what these forums are for.

This is a bit of exaggeration, but basically the same thing.

Someone starts a thread that asks, "How do you keep your pets safe while travelling".

I then reply with, "Why are you bringing your pets in the first place. They are dangerous to all of us, because they can spread disease, mess up the campground and bite other campers."

I know that sounds ridiculous, but it is exactly the same thing. I don't feel that way, but I'm sure there are a few that do.

My advice to all:

Don't use the forums to argue about politically hot topics. If someone posts something that pushes your buttons, step back for a bit and ask yourself is this the place to be getting emotional about politics. I think most would agree with me that it is not.

Ken

[SteveSueMac]

In my (exceedingly) brief tenure as a moderator in training for this forum, I adopted the perspective (rightly or not) that this forum is not as much like "the public square" as it can tend to feel (for those of us from the US). Rather, it is more like a person's home. That person has invited everyone in to enjoy one another's company and hopefully learn a lot from each other. And, as a "private home" analogy might go - the homeowner has some rules about what's fair and not fair for conversation.

I get that many topics are emotionally charged - this being one of them. It's not that firearms can't be discussed, but like hitches and other heated topics, it seems to quickly go from opposing views legitimately understanding and appreciating one another's perspectives (despite disagreeing) to highly charged "evangelizing" of both sides - all the while forgetting the homeowner's kind invitation to enjoy the party here within some well established rules - chief among them - to be nice.

Have a salubrious day, everyone :-)

[Ag&Au]

Originally Posted by SteveSueMac

In my (exceedingly) brief tenure as a moderator in training for this forum, I adopted the perspective (rightly or not) that this forum is not as much like "the public square" as it can tend to feel (for those of us from the US). Rather, it is more like a person's home. That person has invited everyone in to enjoy one another's company and hopefully learn a lot from each other. And, as a "private home" analogy might go - the homeowner has some rules about what's fair and not fair for conversation.

I get that many topics are emotionally charged - this being one of them. It's not that firearms can't be discussed, but like hitches and other heated topics, it seems to quickly go from opposing views legitimately understanding and appreciating one another's perspectives (despite disagreeing) to highly charged "evangelizing" of both sides - all the while forgetting the homeowner's kind invitation to enjoy the party here within some well established rules - chief among them - to be nice.

Have a salubrious day, everyone :-)

I had to look it up so I felt I would share it with others.

salubrious - Dictionary Definition : Vocabulary.com

"Salubrious is a fancy way to describe something that’s good for you or is generally favorable to mind or body, but it need not be limited to describing healthy foods or liquids."

Ken

[SteveSueMac]

Sorry Ken. Apparently that (and a whole host of other reasons) explains my exceedingly brief tenure as a mod in training :-)

And first time I saw that phrase, it was on the side if a hot dog vendor's truck I used to frequent. I had to look it up too and busted up laughing when I did! :-)

[Stefrobrts]

Originally Posted by SStar

That said, this is probably one of the most non-productive threads that has appeared on the forums. I seriously doubt if it will change anyone's opinion, pro or con, as to the carry of firearms for protection.

Please note that changing anyone's opinion about guns is NOT the point of this thread. The point is that someone wants to carry their guns, and wants to know if there are any RV-traveling specific concerns. There are. There are different gun laws in different states. People have helpfully provided links to find information about these laws. That's really the point of this thread, and I'm glad our members can help each other in this way.

Debating anything else related to firearms is outside the scope of this thread.

[Ag&Au]

A few years ago*, I started a thread for the sole purpose of satisfying the desire present in many of us to argue just for the sake of it. You don't have to even be right or make sense, just be aware that whatever you say, someone will dispute it, no matter how profoundly true it may be. Feel free to use it for satisfying that urge. Just keep in mind that the entire population of the great world wide web can read it so use a bit of common sense.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f161...ead-60297.html

Apparently arguing is a common problem on forums, because I later tried finding the argue thread by searching google and found the exact same thing on many forums. So I don't claim originality, but it was an original thought to me. However, so are a lot of thoughts other people commonly have.

Ken

*four years and one month ago today, to be exact.

[gsmithii]

Originally Posted by T1NCAN

Do you take them on the road with you? Why? Why not? Do you keep them in your Airstream? TV? Take them into National or State Parks? I've got a long trip coming up and I plan on bringing mine, for those low frequency but high risk situations...

For such a serious subject the usual ramble in our discussions may not help T1ncan. Here's another try to answer the question while drawing on some of the excellent preceding posts:

- Do you take them on the road with you? Ans. What anybody else might decide is irrevelant to you. Your decision should result from your careful assessment of your risks vs. the gain of including firearms in your safety equipment. What is your state of mind? Can you truly contemplate violence? Can you describe your threat specifically? What is your level of total and recent training? What is your plan for defense? What is the legal environment? . . . and so forth.

With those questions in mind your other questions will be answered.

Good luck.

[RangerJay]

Originally Posted by gsmithii

For such a serious subject the usual ramble in our discussions may not help T1ncan. Here's another try to answer the question while drawing on some of the excellent preceding posts:

- Do you take them on the road with you? Ans. What anybody else might decide is irrevelant to you. Your decision should result from your careful assessment of your risks vs. the gain of including firearms in your safety equipment. What is your state of mind? Can you truly contemplate violence? Can you describe your threat specifically? What is your level of total and recent training? What is your plan for defense? What is the legal environment? . . . and so forth.

With those questions in mind your other questions will be answered.

Good luck.

Not sure - but the OP might have been scared off ..... really hope not ..... on subjects other than guns we can be quite a bit more helpful! ..... even friendly! ....


Jay

[SteveSueMac]

Resources that may be of interest (though not a specific answer to the OP's question) :

http://rvbookstore.com/shop/detail.aspx?p=367
Gun laws in all 50 states

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/usa.pdf
US Handgun Laws

[Foiled Again]

Originally Posted by Thalweg

There are other reasons to carry a gun than self-defense. Around here we have a problem with people hitting deer with their car. Mainly from tourists driving too fast and not being cognizant of the deer’s presence. Oftentimes they will leave a maimed deer lying on the side of the road. I for one can't bear to see the animal lying there suffering, and once you've had to put a deer down by beating it with a tire iron, you'll wish you had a gun with you.

I did hit a deer without killing it - that had been hit by a vehicle coming in the opposite direction and was propelled into my lane. A local police office arrived about 2 minutes later and refused to use his service revolver to put the deer down because he'd have to file a report for using it.

I'm a woman and haven't been hunting in 40 years, with only one very sharp pocket knife... and basic knowledge of what severing the external carotid artery can do. Officer stood by - didn't volunteer to do the dirty work. It is over 10 years and I still get upset thinking about it.

Not a huge fan of firearms, and wouldn't have pulled one out in front of that expletive deleted officer, but it would have been faster and less disgusting to shoot the deer.

Paula

[Nuvite-F]

Pardon me if this is considered off-topic, but this post is no more off-topic than the post to which it is responding.

Originally Posted by Gene

Fear is like a virus—it can spread and spread and eventually leads people to arming themselves.

.

Gene seems to have the impression that people arm themselves out of fear. I view it more as a matter of general preparedness. For example, between my home, cabin, cars, tow vehicle, and trailer I probably have a dozen fire extinguishers. Am I especially afraid of fire? No, I just want to be prepared if it should happen. Likewise I carry a spare wheel and tire for my Airstream, plenty of tools, and some spare parts. Have never needed the fire extinguishers or the spare tire, although I have used the tools and spare parts some.

Being reasonably proficient with both rifles and handguns, when shall-issue concealed weapons laws came into existence, I availed myself of them. One more dimension of general preparedness.

Have any of the gun owners ever used their guns for self defense or to protect anyone? How did that work out?

Happens all the time. Nearly all the time, where it is clearly a matter of self defense, the incident never goes beyond the local news. I hear about some of them because I subscribe to an armed citizen page on Facebook that links the local news stories in my news feed. Based on that, I would guess that an armed citizen shoots a would-be armed robber/rapist/murderer somewhere in the US a couple of times a week.

But the number of shootings by armed citizens is not really the measure that we should be considering. The first line of defense of any weapons system, from a club to a nuclear missile, is deterrence. Accurate statistics are hard to come by since deterrence of crime by armed citizens is seldom even reported, but studies suggest that for every actual shooting by an armed citizen, many more crimes were aborted when the perpetrator discovered that the potential victim was armed.

[Isuzusweet]

As a former RM Commando trained in more than a few ways to ruin someones day, just remember…..a knife doesn't need to be reloaded, or to have a safety released for it to work. It also doesn't run out of ammo.

I know which door you're coming in, I know you probably DON"T have any training at all; your aim will be off due to adrenaline……. and if you haven't pulled the gun yet, and you're less than 18 feet away from me; even if you know I'm coming………..your dead. period. You can't unholster, take the safety off, train and fire the weapon in less time for me to travel 18 feet…….and I've slowed down.

I will win…I will win and you will lose. I don't carry a firearm….I don't need too.

All I need is a Kukri.

Cheers
Tony