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Old 12-24-2014, 10:07 AM   #43
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What? Then you're irritating the people behind you. I learned that you maintain speed when being passed.

A slow pass by another is something where one does ones part in making the time/distance of that pass as short as possible.

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Old 12-24-2014, 10:12 AM   #44
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He should have slowed down and let the guy make the pass, I would have, but the guy passing should have hung it up nonetheless.

At the end of the ten hour day, the difference in the two vehicles speeds would have amounted to a few hundred yards at best. By the time he got out of the lane there were thirty to fifty cars backed up behind them, and as usual, a certain percentage of them were arses and intent on cutting line and making things even more frustrating and DANGEROUS.


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It's miles. And not a few minutes. I've experimented both ways and passing is better. What two different trucks wind up being able to do and what the drivers are willing to do make for plenty of differences.

What to do about the twelve year olds in cars is to obtain a dash cam. Police gave up warning or citing unsafe driving forty years ago.


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Old 12-24-2014, 10:46 AM   #45
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Yes, I've seen truckers run side by side for what seemed like forever (probably was only a few miles), one trying to pass the other. Sometimes the one trying to pass eventually got back in line behind the one he was trying to pass. Must be like a game to them because I can see no other reason for it.

To reiterate, one has two differently spec'd big trucks, different loads as to weight and type, and then two different drivers as to motivation and skill. Expect that unless the trucks are otherwise identical rigs with the same company and are traveling together that the speed differential is real even if not immediately apparent to you four wheelers. IOW, a couple of mph is only the tip of the iceberg as to what the drivers are dealing with.

I've found that unless my next departure from the road is within 3-5 miles that it is better to pass. Constantly running up on another rig after having backed off is no solution.

And the left lane has no ROW let's remember. Overtaking is not passing, and the burden of avoidance is on those using the left lane (especially as those traveling in that lane are warned repeatedly to stay out of it).

One thing I will caution four wheelers about is that I am not alone in the following: when I put on the turn signal in the Peterbilt to change lanes I am not asking permission. It means I am coming over NOW. Those who think to cut me off are making one terrible decision.

While I don't expect to see our group do this I have surprised more than one lifted 4WD pulling a toy hauler ( the genuinely worst RV driver category). That guy is the one with the least skill, worst rig and most likely to lose a tire at speed. And to try and intimidate me afterwards which is always funny. DPS is only a button push away.

Common CB chatter is that these poor children in the back seat have not a father but a sperm-donor-in-residence. The TH crowd is disliked thoroughly.

Crowds of Harley's are not far down the list. Gangs are worst due to attitude, but the weekenders are all too ignorant all too often.

The biggest mistake in passing I see (at 12,000 miles/month) is to forget separation distance. One moves over before separation distance is breached. Doesn't matter that someone over there is overtaking. They aren't there in any legal sense anyway. I see this with every kind of traffic.


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Old 12-24-2014, 10:54 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by slowmover View Post
To reiterate, one has two differently spec'd big trucks, different loads as to weight and type, and then two different drivers as to motivation and skill. Expect that unless the trucks are otherwise identical rigs with the same company and are traveling together that the speed differential is real even if not immediately apparent to you four wheelers. IOW, a couple of mph is only the tip of the iceberg as to what the drivers are dealing with.

I've found that unless my next departure from the road is within 3-5 miles that it is better to pass. Constantly running up on another rig after having backed off is no solution.

And the left lane has no ROW let's remember. Overtaking is not passing, and the burden of avoidance is on those using the left lane (especially as those traveling in that lane are warned repeatedly to stay out of it).

One thing I will caution four wheelers about is that I am not alone in the following: when I put on the turn signal in the Peterbilt to change lanes I am not asking permission. It means I am coming over NOW. Those who think to cut me off are making one terrible decision.

While I don't expect to see our group do this I have surprised more than one lifted 4WD pulling a toy hauler ( the genuinely worst RV driver category). That guy is the one with the least skill, worst rig and most likely to lose a tire at speed. And to try and intimidate me afterwards which is always funny. DPS is only a button push away.

Common CB chatter is that these poor children in the back seat have not a father but a sperm-donor-in-residence. The TH crowd is disliked thoroughly.

Crowds of Harley's are not far down the list. Gangs are worst due to attitude, but the weekenders are all too ignorant all too often.

The biggest mistake in passing I see (at 12,000 miles/month) is to forget separation distance. One moves over before separation distance is breached. Doesn't matter that someone over there is overtaking. They aren't there in any legal sense anyway. I see this with every kind of traffic.


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Understand and agree with everything you say, however the statement in bold above troubles me, because I have had it happen to me more than a once when a big rig turns on it's turn signal indicating a lane change when my front fender is ALREADY in front of his trailer's back bumper. And then the driver gets angry and flips me off when I maintain speed to continue my pass.

My thoughts on this is "there's one in every crowd", and hope you're not the one.

I understand you guys are out there working for a living, and we are essentially just playing, however we pay taxes too and have every right to be there.
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Old 12-24-2014, 12:46 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
Understand and agree with everything you say, however the statement in bold above troubles me, because I have had it happen to me more than a once when a big rig turns on it's turn signal indicating a lane change when my front fender is ALREADY in front of his trailer's back bumper. And then the driver gets angry and flips me off when I maintain speed to continue my pass.

My thoughts on this is "there's one in every crowd", and hope you're not the one.

I understand you guys are out there working for a living, and we are essentially just playing, however we pay taxes too and have every right to be there.
It was troubling me, too.

I have every sympathy with the truck drivers; if they have to slow to allow a car to pass, even only slightly, then it can take quite a while to regain that speed and momentum. If a car has to slow slightly to allow a truck to move out then that speed is quickly regained once the truck's out of the way.

I agree, though, that it's not good driving to assume that the presence of a turn light automatically grants the right to move, trumping the requirement to actually yield to someone who already has the right of way.

If I'm on the highway then I do generally yield to the trucks when they hit that turn light, if it's safe to do so. It'd be a rare occasion that my need was greater than theirs. However, and I have had this happen on more than one occasion, if I'm halfway to the cab as I'm passing a big truck and they hit the turn light then there's no way I'm going to cede that lane, unless I can safely move to a lane further to the left.
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Old 12-24-2014, 12:50 PM   #48
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I think my point was missed.

When a truck making a pass requires ten miles to gain one hundred feet, this equates is about 600 feet an hour advantage, or about 6,000 feet at the end of a ten hour driving shift,,,,

This is equivalent to about two minutes.

I drove a truck for a long time, lots of miles, I would have NEVER created such an obstruction ESPECIALLY for so little gain.

It is simply RUDE and inconsiderate no two ways about it. I am going to stick with this position, because it is true.


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Old 12-25-2014, 06:27 AM   #49
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I think my point was missed.

When a truck making a pass requires ten miles to gain one hundred feet, this equates is about 600 feet an hour advantage, or about 6,000 feet at the end of a ten hour driving shift,,,,

This is equivalent to about two minutes.

I drove a truck for a long time, lots of miles, I would have NEVER created such an obstruction ESPECIALLY for so little gain.

It is simply RUDE and inconsiderate no two ways about it. I am going to stick with this position, because it is true.


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Come on on over to Texas east from IH35. The distances and the giant metro areas might make you a believer. Out on the Plains states I might agree with you. I'll not insult your intelligence in believing you wouldn't also experiment. Don't focus on just speed. As I said, travel speed is only part of the equation. I can be quite a few miles ahead in fairly short order in most instances. Weight, gearing, motivation and skill mean more than a few mph. It isn't hard to figure out with experience.

Nor is what my mirrors tell me about the way another truck is gaining on me. The speed is only part of it.


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Old 12-25-2014, 06:59 AM   #50
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It was troubling me, too.



I have every sympathy with the truck drivers; if they have to slow to allow a car to pass, even only slightly, then it can take quite a while to regain that speed and momentum. If a car has to slow slightly to allow a truck to move out then that speed is quickly regained once the truck's out of the way.



I agree, though, that it's not good driving to assume that the presence of a turn light automatically grants the right to move, trumping the requirement to actually yield to someone who already has the right of way.



If I'm on the highway then I do generally yield to the trucks when they hit that turn light, if it's safe to do so. It'd be a rare occasion that my need was greater than theirs. However, and I have had this happen on more than one occasion, if I'm halfway to the cab as I'm passing a big truck and they hit the turn light then there's no way I'm going to cede that lane, unless I can safely move to a lane further to the left.

I should clarify a little. The signal goes on when it is safe to pull out to pass. An overtaking left laner is not passing until they are within separation distance or thereabouts. Being in the left lane is always a hazard. Road conditions DO NOT warrant top legal limit on a crowded road. Period.

There is no left lane ROW except when a pass is already underway. And that distance of separation is apparently much less than some understand it to be. It is not imputed by high speed.

Again, overtaking is not passing. They are distinct from one another. No one is to be in the left lane except to pass and that zone is determined by separation distance. Once the safe distance is breached or nearly so, then is it proper to use the left lane. But not otherwise.

The bad truck drivers stand out. You'll pass dozens if not hundreds without much conscious thought. The good four wheelers are almost invisible in that I can go weeks (35,000 miles or more) and not see a four wheeler act properly in all aspects. This is distinctly different than forty years ago.

Four wheelers are the cause of more than three-quarters of truck car accidents. You'll have an easier time on the road from truck drivers accounting for your presence towing and likely abilities far in advance of meeting. And never know it.
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Old 12-25-2014, 07:12 AM   #51
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On that note the continuing worst mistake by RVers is to pass a big truck and then re enter the right lane too soon. As with all car drivers mistakenly under the impression the tailgater behind them has ROW. Stupidity abounds.


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Old 12-25-2014, 11:27 AM   #52
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Come on on over to Texas east from IH35. The distances and the giant metro areas might make you a believer. Out on the Plains states I might agree with you. I'll not insult your intelligence in believing you wouldn't also experiment. Don't focus on just speed. As I said, travel speed is only part of the equation. I can be quite a few miles ahead in fairly short order in most instances. Weight, gearing, motivation and skill mean more than a few mph. It isn't hard to figure out with experience.

Nor is what my mirrors tell me about the way another truck is gaining on me. The speed is only part of it.


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It might be that I started driving tractor trailers when I was sixteen years old, and have driven hundreds of thousands of miles in large vehicles all over this nation, and a lot of it in Texas.

When I start out driving in the morning I usually do some math in my head to project my arrival time, I usually always nail it within about ten minutes.

I guess my point is that it is rude for people to block traffic for ten minutes while passing.

My goal is to be a safe and courteous driver, it is a weakness of mine where I expect a modicum of the same from others.


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Old 12-25-2014, 12:25 PM   #53
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"Objects in mirror are closer that they appear."

"Safety Mirrors"... on the right side mirrors of modern vehicles. I guess it had to be being able to see someone laying underneath your vehicle or... getting a better view on the blind side. These mirrors are the curse of backing up a trailer. My driver's side mirror is clear and easy to judge. The "safety mirror" may as well be missing as it provides no help in backing up a trailer. At least in my experience.

When passing and wanting to merge back into the right lane, this "safety mirror" also distorts the distance between you and the vehicle you passed. I, personally, curse to myself each time when I have to depend on a mirror that is like wearing a pair of someone else's glasses to see. These mirrors are a hazard to judging distances when passing or backing up.

I-80 and I-25 are great examples of Western Highway traffic mitigation when traveling. Downhill the 18 wheelers are passing while you are braking. Uphill the 18 wheelers are downshifting and you pass them with ease. An empty 18 wheeler is gone and you will not see them again. Even the Interstate leaving Las Vegas, Nevada to the north has a long climb with an extra lane or two for slower traffic. The inside lane for very slow. Next lane for slow. Another for passing the slower traffic and a passing lane for everyone else. Works great. I can take these uphill climbs with my Tundra 5.7L with ease, passing the truck traffic and hope to gain enough distance so we are not doing the I pass, you pass, I pass routine.

Some of you who travel these up and down interstates understand what I am saying. I have rarely encountered a blocked passing lane, unless it was one 18 wheeler or more trying to pass a few others and end up going UP a hill and they all begin to slow down, blocking traffic. Eventually they all reach the crest of the hill and everything goes back to normal. No one has ever DIED just waiting a few minutes for this truck bowel movement from clearing out....

Occasionally you will find a travel trailer being towed and they are going 55mph. Obviously keeping their fuel costs down. Sometimes with a tow vehicle that should not be towing any sized trailer. Any slower and they become a menace to others having to pass them at the worst moments. But, you pass, you live through it and this tow vehicle and trailer will pass you while you are refueling.

In City traffic jams... the entire two, three, four.... lanes are blocked with stop and go traffic. You are not blocking any one. There is no place to go faster than ZERO when you are not moving. There use to be lanes just for traffic going through town... thru lanes. At least you felt better knowing that the lane was marked... thru lane traffic. There is usually space in front of 18 wheelers and trailers for traffic to move over, one way or the other.

I know when I am in a lane that is creating inconvenience. If I cannot get someone to let me merge into the lane I want... there is little I can do. I will flash my headlights when a trailer or 18 wheeler passes me and is gaining distance. Many trucks will do the same for me... but less than 50%. This is where that "safety mirror" optics can look like you have plenty of room before merging, but it is pure optics.

Someone in FLAT interstate highways CANNOT compare this driving to mountain and hilly terrain with steep drops into a valley and then steep inclines. You learn to use your down shifting going down instead of riding your brakes, and when you are comfortable... hit the gas peddle to gain some momentum to get up the other side of the drop. You really have to plan ahead. I-25 between Albuquerque, NM to Soccorro, NM... up and down, up and down... you get very good at planning ahead.

I have seen just as many poor 18 wheeler drivers in proportion to 4 wheel operators. A double trailer 18 wheelers are the BEST of the BEST. I watched an 18 wheeler in western Nevada on a two lane going down hill with plenty of curves. The trailer he was towing must have been overweight. As he made curves, the outside tires were smoking under the trailer bed. We stayed back expecting some horrific accident coming... but at the bottom of the decline... disappeared and we did not "smell him again".

The last "safe driver" I rode with in the mountains west of Denver looking for spots to pull out to gold pan along a river... was my last time. I do not know how he lived this long driving all over the lane like he did. I offered to drive after that. There is no perfect driver. Sometimes you have to break against tradition and get away from potential trouble. You must be defensive. Someone tail gating... they have done that all their lives and it is not to be taken personally. Same with those speeding past and cut quickly in front of you. GET OVER IT. It is not personal.

And... so I can close this down. Driving through Pueblo, Colorado on I-25 going south pulling our 23 foot Airstream. Those who have gone through Pueblo know the highway curves around, traffic merging every quarter mile or so... and you have to be on your toes... so to speak. Two guys in their 20's were dodging in and out of traffic... obviously testing out their hot rod in traffic and they disappeared over one of the hills on this stretch. As we came over the hill, off to the side of the road were the "hot rodders". Their hood must not have been latched and flipped up, bent and broke their windshield. So sometimes good things happen to bad people. Or is it the other way around? You always wonder where the Highway Patrol is when some drunk or fool comes through... no cell phone service and they disappear into the distance. Just back off, let them get clear of YOU and be watchful. It is not your job to be the driving critic... as you could be like my gold panning friend... oblivious.
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Old 12-25-2014, 02:16 PM   #54
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It is true that even though few people die as a result of rude or oblivious driving, nonetheless, I reserve the right to complain about it.

Perhaps, my rant will cause JUST ONE person avoid the pitfall of rude or oblivious driving,,,, if so my rant will have been worth it.

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Old 12-25-2014, 02:40 PM   #55
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The roads are not what they were in the 90's much less the seventies. Not even the 00's. Smartphones are the culprit. Not for texting so much as freeing the seeming congenitally illiterate from any responsibility while on the road. Twelve year olds who treat driving as a voice guided video game. Bumper to bumper at 40 or 75.

Predicting arrival time doesn't mean much as any of can do it. It is where I will be in 36-48 hours. Not all of us sit around the truck stop. When loading and unloading take under an hour each one has greater times/distances to work with in understanding. I've seen it regularly where all other things being the same in governed tractors that the driver twenty minutes in drive time plus load time behind another is more than nine hours behind in just over twenty four hours.

Who's business is it that one is passing another except with a sense of entitlement? FWIW, I've called the company of the driver being passed more than once for being an ass. No surprise they don't respond on the radio.

As before, the rude guy passing slowly isn't the one being "rude". It is the one being passed who has created and perpetuated a situation which never needed to occur.

Lead, follow or get out of the way is something fathers used to teach. And there is absolutely no proportionality in re bad car and truck drivers. If there were the statistics would be far different than they are.

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Old 12-25-2014, 03:31 PM   #56
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To change the sub-subject a bit. I have had occasion to drive from Colorado to Seattle and/or Portland several times in the last couple years. The route includes I-84 through Idaho. The one thing that has amazed as well as annoyed me every time is the number of drivers with Idaho plates that just sit in the left lane often well below the speed limit. That makes everyone pass them on the right. Where I live it is the law to "stay right except to pass whenever the speed limit is 65 or over." Has any one else noticed this and/or have any idea why they do that?

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