diesel truck-----what to watch out for?

[Ghost Rider]

I am looking for a diesel truck. There are a few requirements.
1. Automatic trans (tired of shifting)
2. Used (can't afford new)
3. 4 x 4 (lots of snowy winters)
4. Extended cab (family of 5)
The big three all have trucks to meet my requirements, but I have limited experience with diesel engines (none really). Since I have to buy used, what I want to know is there anything I should watch out for or avoid in any of the big 3's trucks? I don't want truck bashing, just any known problems. For instance someone told me Chevy had a problem with injector pumps (or something like that?) with there 6.5 turbo and it cost around $800 to fix! All 3 have decent trucks, so I don't really care what brand it is I would just like a reliable truck.
Horse power and towing heavy stuff is not a concern. So differences in horse power or towing capability not a big factor.
Thanks for your help.

G/R

[Tinsel Loaf]

What ever truck you buy LOOK at the service log. Diesels and towig = MAINTENANCE.
A well maintained diesel will last a long time. Not changing the fuel filter every 15,000 miles will wear the injectors and shorten the pump life. Go to thedieselstop.com and look there for advice, like Airstreamforums.com which is a wealth of information thedieselstop is loaded with lots of information. Good luck.

[71_safari]

I had it ('00 F250) for two full days before I brought it back to the dealer and bought a new gasser instead. Why? Well... it was noisy, and I could smell fumes with the windows open, it clattered and roared up and down the narrow, twisty streets where I live, had almost no engine braking, felt sluggish in town, did I mention the noise?...it literally gave me a headache. I could go on. It only had 50k on it and I couldn't imagine driving it until it wore out. It just wasn't a good fit for me personally, although in many situations and applications they are excellent, as several of my friends will attest, and may be fine for you.

The mileage was pretty good. Ran a full tank through it and got 15 mpg compared to the 12 I get with the gasser, around town in very steep and congested conditions. Probably be even a bit more advantage to the diesel when towing but for me it just wasn't worth it, especially since I have a car to drive also.

Just my personal experience. Try before you buy.

[flyfisher]

Hi -

I have a 2000 F250 PSD 4x4 with 65000 miles and so far have not experienced a single significant problem!

The only thing about mine that is sometimes a nuisance is that it sometimes drips a couple small drops of oil, so I keep a rubber mat on my garage floor. They tell me it uses a crushable brass drain plug, that needs to be replaced periodically. However, that's all I can tell you after almost 5 years of ownership and several cross country towing trips!

You can probably learn about every problem ever experienced, and then some, with Ford trucks at http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/.

John

[87MH]

Originally Posted by Ghost Rider

The big three all have trucks to meet my requirements..... is there anything I should watch out for or avoid in any of the big 3's trucks? G/R

FWIW, I have a Ford 7.3 liter E-350 with 175,000 miles on it, and have also driven a Dodge/Cummins 3/4 ton on longish trips. The Dodge was certainly quieter.

My Ford has absolutely no drips or leaks (surprising for the amount of miles in it), but I did have to replace the radiator last year (almost $400 just for the bare radiator). No problems with the E4OD transmission, but I also have an E150 van (only highway useage, never abused) that had to have the E4OD gone through at 100,000 miles.

When test driving a vehicle, have someone (preferably in a chase car) observe the exhaust as you put the pedal to the metal. Color of exhaust and other tailpipe emissions might give an indication to impending engine problems.

Swab the tailpipe (or put a piece of cardboard or cloth where the exhaust gasses will impact and be collected) for particulate inspection.

Did I mention that the Ford E-350 7.3 liter interior was loud? -- Yeah, like CAN'T HEAR MYSELF THINK!!!

The best resource for info is the 'net Ford site previously mentioned (http://forums.thedieselstop.com/ubbthreads/), Dodge and GM have similar noncorporate-sponsored sites where you will find honest, real world observations, opinions, and discussions by (somewhat impartial? ) enthusiasts.

[maxandgeorgia]

You mention a family of five and an extended cab. I know that you are referencing diesel issues here, you know your requirements, but thought I'd share our experience. We tested both the extended cab and crew cab for rider comfort in the rear seating, and decided that children or friends could not comfortably ride in the extended cab-straight back, limited space, for a very long distance. others may say differently. We selected the crew cab for that reason. Will your family be doing much riding in the rear seats? Just another thing to think about!

[j54mark]

Originally Posted by Ghost Rider

I am looking for a diesel truck. There are a few requirements.
1. Automatic trans (tired of shifting)

You hear a lot about the shortcomings of the older generation of automatics in the big three. I incline to the arguement that the most reliable, and the most economical for rebuild, was the GM unit. But really, with proper maintanence and keeping an eye on the transmission temp. gauge (a necessity for towing) overhauling any of them just needs to be factored in as part of the cost of ownership.

Originally Posted by Ghost Rider

2. Used (can't afford new)

That's what I thought. Then I spent some time with a spreadsheet, and discovered for the fairly high miles I put on one (30,000 -40,000 per year), and factoring the manufacturer's incentives at the time vs. the VERY high prices used diesel trucks bring in my area, the cost over four years was likely to be somewhat less with a new one.

Originally Posted by Ghost Rider

4. Extended cab (family of 5)

The big three all have trucks to meet my requirements

Well, maybe not. I think you really want a crew cab, not an extended cab. I know I would for five people, even if three are kids. The Dodge is not a true crew cab, but it is larger than an extended cab. You need to look at it and compare.

Originally Posted by Ghost Rider

someone told me Chevy had a problem with injector pumps (or something like that?) with there 6.5 turbo and it cost around $800 to fix!

Yeah, or maybe more. This is, in my opinion, something of a bum rap. All diesel trucks have very expensive parts on them which, if they fail, will cost big time to repair. You can expect a 6.5 electric injector pump to go about 100,000 mi. Some think the newer, improved versions might go much, much farther. My bigger kick with the 6.5 is that it has only 185 hp. But the 6.5 GM can be a real bargain. It is not unusual to find them $6,000 or even $8,000 less than a comparable Dodge or Ford.

I'd check a 7.3 for cavitation and later models for the infamous "cackle", a Dodge for just about everything BUT the engine, and a the 6.5 GM needs to be seen by someone who really knows those engines.

The GM Duramax ('00 to present), the Ford 6.0 ('02 - I think - to present) and the Dodge Cummins from '02 on are all much, MUCH quieter. Scarcely louder than a big block gasser.

Good hunting!

Mark

[dscluchfc]

I go a 2002 GMC Duramax K2500HD Crew Cab. Bought used with 41,700 miles and paid $29,500. Already had the hard shell fiberglass tonneau cover by A.R.E.
I get 20 mpg solo and 11 with the 31' Excella loaded at 70 mph.
The Duramax Allison combination is absolutely fantastic....that transmission thinks for itself when it is in tow/haul mode.
A properly maintained vehicle is a must with me, be it gasser or diesel.
I had a K-5 Blazer that I drove for 280,000 miles with proper maintenence and no significant problems exception that awful 700R4 tranny....It got stolen at that point so I don't know how many miles it had left in it.
My uncle always said to me when I worked for him on the farm in East Tennessee in the Summer growing up..."Boy, grease is cheaper than iron...you will do proper maintenence and inspection of equipment, no exceptions."
He was right.

[Davis]

Hi,

I used to own a 2000 GMC crew cab dually with the 6.5 TD and auto. trans. with flawless service and I did my own maintenance.I had it for 3 yrs. and a little over 40,000 miles and as I said flawless service and never had any trouble towing the 31ft trailer I had and no trouble with the 34 ft trailer I have now.I know there are a lot of people who talk down about the 6.5`s but I have owned 4 different GM trucks with that engine and am planning on getting another when I get over the mistake I made of trading the one I had.

I traded for a 2004 Ford Excursion with the 6.0 diesel which was not a good move at all. It did have a lot more power but for a $ 50,000 dollar vehicle it had numerous problems and the seats were very uncomfortable and this was the Limited model with premium leather seating.The 6.0 dsl is also 2-3 times more expensive to maintain.

As some one else posted the Fords also have a problem with block cavitation when the owners don`t keep the coolant additive up to par. Which leads to pinholes in the block and then engine replacement or sleeving.Cavitation has been found in the early 6.9 dsl`s through the 7.3 powerstrokes.So if a Ford is what you want check to see if the FW-16 coolant additive was used.

I have a friend with an older Dodge and he absolutely loves it.It has over 200,000 miles on it and runs excellent.

Good luck shopping. Davis

[bill benton]

I have a 7.3 dsl. with 203,000 miles. All i've done to it is; 1 tranny at 135,000. An injector pump rebuild and proper maintence at 3 to 5 thousand miles. I bought this truck new in 91, and pushed it hard ever since. After this truck I'll never buy anything but a FORD

[the ponz]

go drive the nice used diesels you may find at the ford, chevy and dodge dealers. I found the chevy (gmc) to be the quietest. the new allison transmission is what sold me on the chevy

[Pick]

Been very satisfied with my Duramax/Allison combo. I have put 18K on it since I got it in Sept. of 03. Diesel fuel has been 20-30 cents a gallon cheaper, and with 18 mpg, that is great fuel economy.

GM has upped the injector warranty on 01 and 02 models to 7 year/200K on replacement injectors.

[davidz71]

You can't go wrong with the '01-04 Chevys with the Duramax/Allison transmission combination. They are sweet. For '05 they are taking a tip from the 6.0 Ford diesel and installing a variable van turbocharger which should help this engine in the diesel wars. The 6.0 Ford diesel had a few problems when it first came out, so did the 7.3 Powerstroke, but they have been ironed out.

I'm a GM fan but if I had my choice between the 7.3 or the 6.0 Fords, I would go with the 6.0 because it is a better performer in the horsepower and torque department. I'd say test drive the Duramax, the 7.3 and then the 6.0. Buy the one you feel most comfortable in and seems to give you the performance you want. Of course money will always be an issue but you don't want to throw your money at something you don't really want to buy.

The newer Dodge high output diesel is quieter than the older Cummins diesel by a long shot. Nothing turns me off faster than listening to that Cummins start up. Also, as you have already been told, stay away from the older 6.5 Chevy diesel engine.

[j54mark]

I don't believe one should "stay away" from the 6.5 GM diesel, but I do believe one should know what they are buying. The '99 and '00 models are excellent choices, if you don't need the horsepower offered by some of the newer engines.

The variable vane turbo was introduced by GM with the new LLY engine at the start of this calendar year.

You most certainly can go wrong with a Duramax, as you can with any truck, gas or diesel. Get one with injector trouble (admittedly rare), for example and have GM deny the warranty for "bad fuel". Injectors are $500 to replace. That's each. There are eight of them. Or get a 24 valve Cummins with any one of the various quirks that plagued their introduction. Or a 6.0 Navistar (Ford) with fuel injectors that flood the crankcase.

Fortunately, the problems are actually quite rare. But the expense to correct them requires due dilligence on the part of the buyer in inspecting any prospective purchase.

Mark

[davidz71]

Anyone can be the unlucky purchaser of a used truck. Maintenance records would be a must with me even if the individual did all the work himself. I'd like to know if the guy was thinking preventative maintenance and has the records to prove it. Alas, documents can be forged but if I smell something fishy then I'm outta there.

[Diesel Pusher]

Originally Posted by j54mark

I don't believe one should "stay away" from the 6.5 GM diesel, but I do believe one should know what they are buying. The '99 and '00 models are excellent choices, if you don't need the horsepower offered by some of the newer engines.

The variable vane turbo was introduced by GM with the new LLY engine at the start of this calendar year.

You most certainly can go wrong with a Duramax, as you can with any truck, gas or diesel. Get one with injector trouble (admittedly rare), for example and have GM deny the warranty for "bad fuel". Injectors are $500 to replace. That's each. There are eight of them. Or get a 24 valve Cummins with any one of the various quirks that plagued their introduction. Or a 6.0 Navistar (Ford) with fuel injectors that flood the crankcase.

Fortunately, the problems are actually quite rare. But the expense to correct them requires due dilligence on the part of the buyer in inspecting any prospective purchase.

Mark

GM recently issued a notice to all 2001, 2002 truck owners that the injectors are covered for 7 years and 200,000 miles. I have had nary one problem with my 01 D/A for 65,000 miles. Depending on the man's budget, he should purchase something that suits him. If it were me, I would stay away from the Ford's with the week transmission they put in there for their trucks during the nineties and up to 2003. The torqshift they make now is supposedly decent, but I know from personal experience having owned 4 of them at once for my business that the transmissions had to be replaced in every one of them, sometimes twice. The 7.3 engines were great, but the truck is only as strong as its' weakest link....the tranny!

[keithp]

I also wanted to get a "lightly" used diesel, but the only ones I could find were so loaded with options and trim packages that the price was nearly equal to the more modestly outfitted new trucks. What I bought was a 2004 Ford XL Super Duty with the 6.3 L diesel. This truck is awesome. It is so technologically superior to the 2001 7.3 L diesels that it is hard to believe they are from the same manufacturer. It has a recognizable clatter when it first starts up, but Ford seems to have added some kind of noise reduction circuitry that quiets it considerably when it gets over 1200 to 1500 rpm. It is also remarkably clean - no diesel fumes and no smoke. Mine is still getting broken in and I am getting 18 to 19 mpg on the highway, averaging 15 to 17 mpg in town and 11 to 12 mpg towing my 30 Classic. And it is strong. I test drove a 7.3 L and I thought it was sluggish. The 6.3 L accellerates much more like a strong gasoline V8, especially above 1200 RPM when the turbos are contributing more significantly than at idle.

In case you are unfamiliar with the "XL" model, that means "stripped." Mine has vinyl seats, vinyl floormats, rollup windows, air conditioning and $7,000 worth of engine, transmission and positraction. Perfect for full time camping and travelling in rural areas and unpaved campgrounds. So, if the diesel is really a priority and you can give up the fancy leather interior, maybe you can also afford a new truck. Even though this truck has no frills, I get the impression that everything is extremely well executed. Quality control is great and the "Super Duty" models seem to be engineered to last a long time under heavy usage.

I sound like an advertisement, don't I?

[smily]

I have a 2000 Chevy crew cab 3500 dually in good condition. 112,000 miles with the 6.5 Turbo diesel. I have been happy with it. Burgandy Color with all bells and whistles. Cloth seats. Power everything.
I towed 31 and 34 footer with no troubles. Sold trailers and now have MH. P/U is for sale, $13500.00

Smily

[Towdaddy]

Originally Posted by Ghost Rider

I am looking for a diesel truck. There are a few requirements.
1. Automatic trans (tired of shifting)
2. Used (can't afford new)
3. 4 x 4 (lots of snowy winters)
4. Extended cab (family of 5)
The big three all have trucks to meet my requirements, but I have limited experience with diesel engines (none really). Since I have to buy used, what I want to know is there anything I should watch out for or avoid in any of the big 3's trucks? I don't want truck bashing, just any known problems. For instance someone told me Chevy had a problem with injector pumps (or something like that?) with there 6.5 turbo and it cost around $800 to fix! All 3 have decent trucks, so I don't really care what brand it is I would just like a reliable truck.
Horse power and towing heavy stuff is not a concern. So differences in horse power or towing capability not a big factor.
Thanks for your help.

G/R

May as well wade in here with my 2 cents worth. I have my first diesel which is a 2001 F250 crew cab (short bed) with the 7.3 PSD. I really like the truck and have had no problems with it. I was very uncertain about buying a diesel but my camping friends that owned diesels convinced me that cold starting would not be a problem and that I would have no problem finding fuel. They were right on both counts as I have had no problem starting in sub-zero weather and fuel has been no problem even in the UP of Michigan. I do agree that TheDieselStop web page is a great resource especially if you own a PSD.

When it comes to which brand, I believe that the current HD pickups with Diesels from the Ford, Dodge, and Chevy are all good and you would be happy with any of them. Each has its quirks - the Ford has the infamous "cackle" with some motors, Dodge has a small CC area and some have indicated that tranny problems are not uncommon, and while the Chevy Duramax is very quiet, it is my understanding the rear end problems occurred in the early units.

When it comes to gas mileage, I generally get 14-15 in mixed driving unloaded and get 18-20 on long hauls. This is unloaded. Pulling my trailer, I generally get in the 12-14 range. Are Diesels cheaper than gas in the same model. The best point was made in a post on thedieselstop - Given the higher pricer for oil changes and the cost of diesel that may be similar to that of regular unleaded, the answer is that a diesel truck is cheaper to run than than gas. However, the breakover point is about 80,000 miles. So, if you plan to keep the truck for a long time and log lots of miles, buy a diesel. If you trade every two years, buy gas.

In any event, I believe that you would enjoy owning a diesel. The only problem I have had is getting used to the $80 oil changes.

[Pahaska]

In any event, I believe that you would enjoy owning a diesel. The only problem I have had is getting used to the $80 oil changes.

Oil changes are $53 at my dealer and come much further apart than changes did with my gasoline engine. Averages out more, but not much more.

OTOH, my month-long trip of over $4000 miles saved over $200 in fuel cost. With only a 26-gallon tank, it was nice to get 15-16 MPG towing and have the range to reach lower-cost stations.