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Old 07-18-2009, 09:45 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by mustang View Post
I am a memebr of many gunsites, and organizations. NRA,USCCA... ect

as far as political issue's... here in Ohio a democrat gov (Strickland) fixed the CCW laws and gave us one heck of a hr184 which the previouse gov (R) couldnt or wouldnt. Politics is out

And on the note of rest area's... I am not sure on all states but in Ohio we have a group called Buckeye Firearms assoc.. They rae a grass roots org that got that changed here, as alot of criminal activity happens while stopped, not at 65 mph.
Gunsite is a training facility in Paulden, Arizona, founded by Jeff Cooper in the late 1970's. Doug is a 2-training, 2-alumni-shootoffs veteran. Excellent facility and some outstanding trainers.

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Old 07-18-2009, 11:31 AM   #30
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As a former LEO I for one don't think calling 911 is the answer to someones immediate needs when violent crime against them is taking place. Yes they need to be call but that does not stop the violence at hand. With the economy worsting more and more are turning to crimes against persons. Not trying to scare anyone but you may want to rethink you needs for personal safety.

I like to go by some simple rules:

Rules for a gunfight
1. Forget about pepper spray, knives, bats, and fists. Bring a gun. Preferably, bring at least two guns. Bring all of your friends who have guns. Bring four times the ammunition you think you could ever need.

2. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammunition is cheap - life is expensive. If you shoot inside, buckshot is your friend. A new wall is cheap - funerals are expensive

3. Only hits count. The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss.

4. If your shooting stance is good, you're probably not moving fast enough or using cover correctly.

5. Move away from your attacker and go to cover. Distance is your friend. (Bulletproof cover and diagonal or lateral movement are preferred.)

6. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a semi or full-automatic long gun and a friend with a long gun.

7. In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember who lived.

8. If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading, and running. Yell "Fire!" Why "Fire"? Cops will come with the Fire Department, sirens often scare off the bad guys, or at least cause them to lose concentration and will.... and who is going to summon help if you yell "Intruder," "Glock" or "Winchester?"

9. Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting standards will be more dependent on "pucker factor" than the inherent accuracy of the gun.

10. Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

11. Stretch the rules. Always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.

12. Have a plan.

13. Have a back-up plan, because the first one won't work. "No plan ever survives 10 seconds past first contact."

14. Use cover or concealment as much as possible, but remember, sheetrock walls and the like stop nothing but your pulse when bullets tear through them.

15. Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.

16. Don't drop your guard.

17. Always tactical load and threat scan 360 degrees. Practice reloading one-handed and off-hand shooting. That's how you live if hit in your "good" side.

18. Watch their hands. Hands kill. Smiles, frowns and other facial expressions don't (In God we trust. Everyone else keep your hands where I can see them.)

19. Decide NOW to always be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.

20. The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get.

21. Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet if necessary, because they may want to kill you.

22. Be courteous to everyone, overly friendly to no one.

23. Your number one option for personal security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

24. Do not attend a gunfight with a handgun, the caliber of which does not start with anything smaller than "4".

25. Use a gun that works EVERY TIME. "All skill is in vain when an Angel blows the powder from the flintlock of your musket." At a practice session, throw you gun into the mud, then make sure it still works. You can clean it later.

26. Practice shooting in the dark, with someone shouting at you, when out of breath, etc.

27. Regardless of whether justified of not, you will feel sad about killing another human being. It is better to be sad than to be room temperature.

28. The only thing you EVER say afterwards is, "He said he was going to kill me. I believed him. I'm sorry, Officer, but I'm very upset now. I can't say anything more. Please speak with my attorney."


1. Never be unarmed."

"Happy Trails"


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Old 07-18-2009, 11:53 AM   #31
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Spoken like a true Texan "Chief"!
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Old 07-18-2009, 12:34 PM   #32
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chief- enjoyed that, thanks.

We sold our handguns when we started having children... can I get a CCW for a mossberg cruiser?
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Old 07-18-2009, 01:58 PM   #33
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From a previous post on the earlier thread:

"Can you look another human being in the eyes and still pull the trigger knowing full well that you will undoubtedly kill them and then have to watch them die? "

It is not easy regardless of what you might tell yourself. If does not get any easier the second time either. The average socialized citizen is not wired together to perform this type of act. I've seen both military people and uniformed police officers shoot high or wide to avoid shooting another human being. Cowards? Hell, no--they would rather be shot themselves than shoot another human being. This is the reason that the down range person at a firing squad ceremony is blindfolded. It is not to help the shootee out, it is so the shooters do not have to look someone else in the eye and start one down the barrel.

I have the advantage of HR 218 and carry a copy of the statute with me at all times as well. Some folks have never even heard of HR 218 so the literature can come in handy.

A sub-topic that has not come up as yet. Check with your insurance agent regarding carrying a weapon. Keep in mind that your are doing something intentionally when you light up some socio-economically deprived youth that came from a broken home that did not have enough toys when he was little. Never mind that you are defending yourself from an assault, if he does not get dead, he will sue you. If he does get dead, his momma and/or baby mama will sue you. If your agent says you are covered by your liability umbrella policy, get him/her to put it in writing. He/she won't do it. There are a variety of legal things that protect you criminally but none that will protect you civilly. Jump in here, Gene.

My weapon of choice? Glock G21 w/ a LaserMax sight. Why a .45? Because they don't make a .46.
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Old 07-18-2009, 02:04 PM   #34
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Folks, we have had gun discussions here before that needed to be closed because of the drama that such a controversial topic stirs up. This thread is about concealed carry permits and travelling from state to state in your RV. I'd like to see the thread stay on that topic, else the moderators may need to step in. Please help us out and stick to the topic at hand.

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Old 07-18-2009, 02:43 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by doug&maggie View Post
Any Gunsite alumni out there??
My instructor is a Gunsite Alum. I may go there one day.
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Old 07-18-2009, 03:13 PM   #36
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Various States have decided if you can carry a handgun. I'd say this is one of the few issues where "do'nt ask, do'nt tell" is usefull. Use the common sence god gave you, stay on the U.S. side of the border, keep it well concealed & safe. Only remove if you must and will use it. If curcumstances leave no alturnative be prepared to accept the responsability of violating a state statute to protect your family. Otherwise it may be best to leave it home.
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Old 07-18-2009, 05:49 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Larry in MO View Post
From a previous post on the earlier thread:

"[B]Can you look another human being in the eyes and still pull the trigger knowing full well that you will undoubtedly kill them and then have to watch them die? "

There are a variety of legal things that protect you criminally but none that will protect you civilly. Jump in here, Gene.
Larry, here I am. There are civil statutes that offer some protection, but I'm no expert in this. But… think about the jury you may face—you're from someplace else traveling through the area and make a mistake and shoot the local cop's son—you have this trailer that tells everyone you're a millionaire. Maybe the bullet went through those thin trailer walls. I see some have a lot of training and that's good. There aren't many people who are accurate shots under pressure, and you can't afford to be wrong.

I think the quote Larry added is a very important one. Something like 10 or 20% of soldiers in combat in WWII never fired their guns. Larry, who was in Vietnam, probably knows something about the numbers in that war. We are taught from childhood how wrong it is to kill someone and those teachings stick. There's a reason cops are given time off after a shooting. Most everyone is affected deeply after they've shot someone and especially if they've killed someone. I used to know a guy who was in Vietnam and was face to face with someone ready to kill him—he killed the other guy first and then had recurrent nightmares for years afterward. One night I talked him out of killing himself so he wouldn't have to face the nightmares again. You can get a permit, but actually shooting someone is a lot worse experience for most people than dealing with bureaucracy. The movies make it look too easy to hit someone, to hit them fatally, and not experience the aftermath.

Back to permits. Sorry Stef.

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Old 07-18-2009, 05:59 PM   #38
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I have a conceal carry but never pack my firearm.. Just a personal choice.. i feel I don't need to where I live. But I like having the choice if needed. Pepper spray yes (for wild life)

The local town marshal (who we know personally) Said if you are going to shot someone, You better plan on killing them. Because some stupid jury my make you pay him for his injuries even though he was trying to kill or rob you...

And in Colorado, make sure you do it in your house or drag him across the thresh hold and hose the blood of the front porch. Lot less paper work this way...

Colorado has a the "make my day law"

May you have at least one sunny day, and a soft chair to sit in..

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Old 07-18-2009, 06:08 PM   #39
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Even without a permit, I tend to have one 'available' at all the AS or at home...but never carry one on my person...Wisconsin is particularly bad about protecting individuals who use a firearm for protection..even INSIDE ones home...and Ill be that extends to yours and my AS also...
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Old 07-18-2009, 06:47 PM   #40
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Well, I made this broad sword when I was in college. Took me two months just to shape the blade. It's 60" long with a 48" blade, 2.25" wide and 1/4" thick. It's tempered steel with large guard and hilt. I always thought it'd be kinda neat to stop at the rest stop at midnight with a couple guys with these and walk in. The bad guys would think you were so nuts they'd definitely leave you alone

I tried to make the Kurgan's sword from the movie Highlander. It's the real deal, but it's a little heavy; 9.5 lbs. I have lopped off 2" diameter trees with it though

OK, back to the serious stuff....
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Old 07-18-2009, 08:58 PM   #41
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We both carry concealed handguns everywhere we go. You never know what may happen. We are fortunate that as retired US Customs Special Agents, we are authorized by federal law to carry concealed weapons in all states.
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Old 07-19-2009, 07:43 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Stefrobrts View Post
Folks, we have had gun discussions here before that needed to be closed because of the drama that such a controversial topic stirs up. This thread is about concealed carry permits and travelling from state to state in your RV. I'd like to see the thread stay on that topic, else the moderators may need to step in. Please help us out and stick to the topic at hand.

This is exactly the stuff that is going to undo these forums. The only drama, is posts like the one I just quoted, and is the main reason why people like me, who dont like drama, are spending more time at other Airstream forums sites, like

Fire arms are a very serious matter, and things posted, even in fun, can be a cause for concern later. I could only imagine what could be brought up, or dug up, if god forbid, you ever needed to defend your self in front of a jury, and the creativity of a prosecutor or anyone else.

I personaly liked how this thread was going, It was my thread. The input from Law enforcement, is esspecially helpful, and just like knowledge on an Airstream repair we all share from being there before. This is knowledge, that hopefully we can all share so our families ect wont be in a bad situation, which so many people have also been before.

There was a questioned asked about CCW for Mossburg. It is my understanding, that CCW is for short barreled guns. Dont quote me, and I am sure there is a varience state to state.

Once again for Cheifneon, I thank you for all your knowledge, #8 took me a few times to read, I will yell "Sig" though.

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