Colorado W70 driving in winter

[Phoenix]

I strongly advise against towing on snow and ice. It's much safer to just park until the roads are cleared. Also, in my opinion, if chains are required, continuing on is just foolhardy.

See link to description of our close-call, winter-driving experience:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f42/...ml#post1358880

Best wishes for safe travels!

[Vitaver]

Hi all, newbies here, considering an itinerary Silverthorne to Aspen, Grand Junction and Tellurida in January, pulling a FC27 with a four wheel drive LR4. Got excellent advise from many on very good reasons why not to attempt it. Before we delete this itinerary from our calendar, is there anyone who made that or similar journey and would do it again?

Thank you.

[Phoenix]

The Rockies extend southward into New Mexico, and there's lots to see and do in New Mexico, Arizona and California. Also, mountainous areas of southern Colorado (e.g., Durango) are driveable after road crews clear the highways. I just think that you will be discouraged by poor towing conditions and lack of camping facilities in towns noted for their ski areas, because that's where the most snow is.

If you post the kinds of attractions that interest you, members will be able to suggest alternate destinations in the southwest that you may find just as enjoyable, without having to drive on snow and ice, or worry about your pipes freezing.

I don't think anyone wants to discourage you from visiting this popular area, which draws many winter visitors every year.

By the way, I-70 is a major east-west corridor; and snow plows are out at the first snow flake. However, this highway can sometimes close until the road crews can catch up with the snowfall.

[Tsmith.wp]

Discretion is the better part of valor. You have received valuable input from many experienced drivers, some who live in the mountains and have driven in them for years. I am part of that crowd, living at 9000'. Vail Pass is 10,600'. The Eisenhower Tunnel is 11,000'--the highest point on the U.S. Interstate system. My camper is sleeping until next spring. Heed the advise and go lower, sooner than later.

[Vitaver]

Hi all and thank you. Answering the question, our second (and soon to be primary) residence is in Silverthorne where we are now with our trailer just outside our garage. We enjoy skiing and the destinations (Vail, Aspen and Telluride) for the trip afoot are meant to be precisely so we stay a few days at each, and ski with our AS as our home.

BTW, have not gotten any feedback about successful, happy and repeatable negotiation of these roads in winter, so the balance is tilting heavily into 'don't do it' territory. While some of the best things in my life happened by accident and the most intensive experiences (9 months across Africa in Land Rover, Solo-sailing the Atlantic for a week each offshore passage plus other journeys I rather don't tell) went against common sense. Then again, I am not 50 anymore... Thank you all and glad to be amongst you.

[Len n Jeanne]

Our motto is, if the chances of something going wrong are small, but the consequences of something going wrong are huge, take the precautions.

We were in an accident with Bambi I on dry pavement in summer. We were OK, but within inches of getting killed. Bambi I got wrecked. Then we needed more nerves of steel to deal with all of the insurance appraiser's and adjuster's questions and foot-dragging for several months before the insurance finally paid out.

People always think they'll be the lucky ones who avoid the likely hazards. But you might not be. Is it really worth it to you to take the risk, knowing what the consequences could be if you had an accident on icy roads or blizzard conditions?

Hey, the reason there are ski resorts up your way is because it snows all the time.

[racoco]

We travel from TX to CO a lot, all different times of the year. And we pull our AS with an LR3.

We do not take AS west of I-25, mid-fall to mid-spring, ever. Your Landie will make it, but if the AS starts to slide, the Landie is going with it. We normally (99% of the time) enter CO via the OK panhandle and avoid Raton Pass even in good conditions.

I know the beauty and magnetism of the Rockies in winter, but we leave the AS behind in winter. Just not worth the risk. I get into enough trouble pushing the Land Rover past my bride's limits.

Safe travels.

[kdickinson]

Let us all know how it goes and indeed I hope luck is on your side. I have my own snow towing & winter living stories (and extra gray hairs as a result) but I'll keep them to myself other than to say that my Airstream is now winterized and parked safely within sight of my home office until at least late March 2017. Towing and camping in bitter cold weather and in snow conditions is simply not fun but, like you, I just had to try it. And yes, it can be done but it is not ideal because the Airstream, like most towables, is built for fair weather use. In the end my snow and winter experiences did not embolden me to make winter camping plans in the future, in fact quite the opposite. One thing to do before you go - consider an alternative interior heating method. Power goes out - especially in winter months, converters die (this did happen to us on a 12 degree F night) and "things happen". The trailer gets cold pretty fast and is to ambient temp within 6-8 hours or so. We got a Camco catalytic heater and had an LP extension hose added to feed it. It does not require electricity to run and will heat a good sized trailer quite well. It does require a slightly cracked-open window or exhaust vent to be open to run properly. The other thing to consider is ensuring your TV is prepared for winter travel and being parked for several days in potentially sub-zero temps. Rules of thumb: neither is ideal but ice is far worse than packed snow to drive on, consider wind conditions if it is going to snow while you are driving - if snowfall is "only 1" - 2"" it may not sound bad but wind can make it impossible to see and they will shut down I-70 in a heartbeat for poor visibility. When you get to the snow take some time in a parking lot with the trailer and try different maneuvers on the snow to get a feel for brakes and turns.

[2012FB]

I would not recommend CO mountain passes in the winter but have done it 4 times a year round trip Golden, CO to Mesa, AZ over Christmas and Spring Break for the last 25 years. The last two Christmas trips have been pulling out in deep snow and running in it till past Payson, AZ. I always switch out the GYM tires for Michelins or my better choice this time is a Nokian. I pull with a 2500 HD 4WD and take my time staying well behind a semi and watch carefully for changing conditions. There have been a few white knuckle experiences but have never been forced to stop or turn around. If you have the liberty to watch long range weather forecast you can time things pretty well but passes can often be unpredictable. A short stop and rest would allow things to get plowed and cleared. Tiger Run in Breckenridge is open year round just stay winterized and use the club house for bathroom and showers. Call ahead so they can plow a spot out. Other suggestions for auxiliary heat are good but we have never needed it.


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[CindyC]

Hi everyone!! Just got back from a week long journey picking up 2 Airstreams and bringing them back to Los Angeles. We flew into the great lakes area and picked up a 28'- 77 Argosy. It had been sitting for a few years but performed well. We drove him (Beastie Boy) down to Missouri to pick up his younger sister, 28'- 79 Excella. It was an ambitious undertaking to say the least. One thing I would have done was have a mechanic, Airstream volunteer or otherwise, check both out first and not rely on our "expertise"- Thank goodness for my Branden!! We were fine for the first day and then the problems kept arising. All said and done, we lost 2 days with maintenance with her and Beastie Boy lost his lights along the way so that curtailed our night driving. We found that the best place for nice, caring people who will help out was in Oklahoma! Danny at Cordell service Center in Cordell, OK was THE BEST!!!! He does towing so if you ever need it (knock on wood) call him!!580-832-5707- he won't rip you off!!

I am new to Airstreams... We camped out during one of our maintenance stays and it was probably one of the most enjoyable nights I've had. The company was good too!!! Thanks for reading... I'm happy to be involved with Airstreams now.

[wulfraat]

Heya I'm a Land Rover guy too but I don't tow with one. LR4 has a short wheelbase for a 27' trailer and... FYI.... you are likely overloading your hitch by 250lbs+ with your 27' flying Cloud. Max tongue weight is only 550lbs. Search this forum there was one LR3 owner who had a complete hitch failed due to overloading.

Be safe.

[Louie Dee]

Hi,
You did not mention when you were departing except to say winter. Winter starts on 12/21/16. In Colorado, winter weather comes in much earlier. Traveling after that date is unsafe until well into spring. After living in Colorado for 35 years & traveling the roads on your planned trip & spending a career in Highway Safety, my advise is, like others, do not travel with an RV on those roads. In fact, look forward to a traffic ticket for pulling a RV in unsafe conditions & being forced to park where the contact is made. Then, add the cost of having it hauled to a storage facility off the roadway.
Now, if you mean during the month of October, your chances of a safe journey is much greater but as mentioned by others, weather comes in fast & unexpectently. I am not aware of many CG open in the winter but snow removal equipment at CG's in Colorado is rare. So, think safety for both yourself & others on the road and develop other modes of safe winter travel to your destinations.
Good Luck.

[OTRA15]

Per Post #8 they are already in Colorado.

[Vitaver]

Originally Posted by wulfraat

Heya I'm a Land Rover guy too but I don't tow with one. LR4 has a short wheelbase for a 27' trailer and... FYI.... you are likely overloading your hitch by 250lbs+ with your 27' flying Cloud. Max tongue weight is only 550lbs. Search this forum there was one LR3 owner who had a complete hitch failed due to overloading.

Be safe.

Thank you and yes, that is a matter of concern. You are correct, the specs of the LR4 call for a max tongue wight of 550 pounds. I just pulled the PDF of the AS with the specs and it says 'Hitch weight without options or variable weight 775 pounds'. No idea what the 'options or variable weight' mean though. On the LR sites they have discussions about the actual value but I would stick to the 550 figure as a max. I am surprised the Airstream dealer who sat me up (pun intended) did not disclose this limitation of my jeep. I guess I am out to getting a real truck, maybe a RAM. Thanks for bringing this up!

[wulfraat]

Dealers in general don't fully understand towing dynamics. They are in the business of selling trailers. Generally speaking of course - there are some good dealers out there who know their stuff but I'd say that's an exception to the rule.

For what it is worth I tow with a late model Infiniti QX56 ... 8,500 lbs towing and 850lb tongue weight. 1,433lbs of payload. 400hp and 423lbs foot pounds of torque.

It rivals many 1/2 ton trucks on paper. Works great for us - very comfortable ride with independent suspension.

[Vitaver]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

Per Post #8 they are already in Colorado.

Yes, at home in Silverthorne. I have an appointment with Windish in Denver (AS recommends them) to service my FC27 next week, so will tow it there and in a month time will pick her up with a truck, as I was made aware my LR4 is not well suited for her. I towed her safely from Fort Lauderdale without incident, so a run to Denver (slow... very slow) should be OK.

[Vitaver]

Originally Posted by Louie De

Hi,
You did not mention when you were departing except to say winter. Winter starts on 12/21/16. In Colorado, winter weather comes in much earlier. Traveling after that date is unsafe until well into spring. After living in Colorado for 35 years & traveling the roads on your planned trip & spending a career in Highway Safety, my advise is, like others, do not travel with an RV on those roads. In fact, look forward to a traffic ticket for pulling a RV in unsafe conditions & being forced to park where the contact is made. Then, add the cost of having it hauled to a storage facility off the roadway.
Now, if you mean during the month of October, your chances of a safe journey is much greater but as mentioned by others, weather comes in fast & unexpectently. I am not aware of many CG open in the winter but snow removal equipment at CG's in Colorado is rare. So, think safety for both yourself & others on the road and develop other modes of safe winter travel to your destinations.
Good Luck.

Thanks for the info, I appreciate it. To know the limits and stay compliant, can you please point me to a statue, rule, etc. that establishes what is considered 'safe towing' in my new state (CO)? Oh, I meant travel in late December to third week in January.

[Vitaver]

Originally Posted by wulfraat

Heya I'm a Land Rover guy too but I don't tow with one. LR4 has a short wheelbase for a 27' trailer and... FYI.... you are likely overloading your hitch by 250lbs+ with your 27' flying Cloud. Max tongue weight is only 550lbs. Search this forum there was one LR3 owner who had a complete hitch failed due to overloading.

Be safe.

Would the weight distribution hitch (I have Blue OX installed) reduce the tongue weight? If so, by how much? Thanks!

[wulfraat]

A weight distribution hitch does not significantly reduce the tongue weight of the trailer.

A WD system Torques the receiver to transfer more of the weight through the vehicle to the front axle. So it moves weight from the rear axle of the car/truck to the front axle... but the weight is still there. I think of it like lifting a wheelbarrow - when you lift the handles you transfer weight from the rear feet to the front wheel, but the weight of the wheelbarrow does not change.

Note that a WD hitch actually puts MORE stress on the hitch receiver since it places a large amount of twisting torque on it. That's why it is critical to have a receiver that can handle both the dead tongue load / weight and the Torque generated by a WD hitch....

[JamuJoe]

Originally Posted by Vitaver

Like in sailing, will look for weather windows, aware that it can change in minutes. The advise from the Forum is very important to us and will be a lot more conservative to make our daily drives limited to 120 miles or less, midday with good forecast. Again, like in sailing, there is no schedule other than the one dictated by nature. While towing across 7 states including Florida all the way to Colorado, in perfect weather and roads, at 70+ mph everything worked out perfect. I expect winter in the mountains will keep it under 35 mph, to a crawl on steep grades of course. Again, thank you.

Vitaver, Your analogy to sailing registers with me. We leave CO every Jan to travel to our boat (Leopard 42) in FL. (Key Largo this year) and have only left the Airstream at home one time. Monitoring forecasts, honoring weather windows, identifying alternate routes and contingency safe harbors are transferrable best practices. The gear is different, but managing risk is similar.

Safe Travels,
Joe