Burningman 2006

[Rivka]

Originally Posted by Buttercup

There is actually a very good reason. Dogs are not allowed because they get disoriented by the loud music, sounds, people everywhere and such. They start to wander lost and become dehydrated out on the playa very quickly.
This has been such a problem in the past that the organizers determined it was not a hospitable place for animals. So they are not allowed in the gate.

I don't know about iguanas...

you are very right on this one. we figured that it boiled down to that dogs could not say no when there unthinking owners drag them out there, so someone had to be their voice. we used to see tons of bad things with dogs, horrible dehydration, tons of cracked paws from the playa surface. and every year we had missing dogs that were NEVER found. Someone had to stick for the little furry guy.

[Kevbo10]

arriving burnstream court, sunday. this is going to be fun! in regards to dogs, this just isn't the place for them although in years past i have seen lot's of snakes...

[Buttercup]

Phoenix,

We have worked together before - indirectly. I also worked for the man. I was Ringleader of L2K fame. Now go by Baulknaub, Community Services - Placement Team. Plaza Manager for 3:00 and 9:00 plaza's.
I just knew that there were some good quality airstreamer types out there!!!

Originally Posted by Rivka

Hi folks, so great to see more Airstreams at Burningman!

I've been working for the "Man" for the last 7 years and have been living in my various airstreams out there for the last 5. This year will mark the 3rd airstream i have brought out. I am out there for up to 2.5 months depending on the year and job and at least a month.
I lurk all the time on the burnstream list and they are a great bunch of folks. It is also the best advice in the world to start at the Burningman.com website and the first timers and survival guide.
I'm also happy to answer questions.

Rivka aka Phoenix (on playa)
Department of Public Works
Black Rock City, NV 2006

[HHP]

we used to see tons of bad things with dogs, horrible dehydration, tons of cracked paws from the playa surface. and every year we had missing dogs that were NEVER found. Someone had to stick for the little furry guy.

x2

Rivka/Buttercup: I am starting to feel that kids should be banned too. the last few years I have seen too much intervention from BLM because "kids are around"...

what do you think?

Hart

[Rivka]

Originally Posted by Buttercup

Phoenix,

We have worked together before - indirectly. I also worked for the man. I was Ringleader of L2K fame. Now go by Baulknaub, Community Services - Placement Team. Plaza Manager for 3:00 and 9:00 plaza's.
I just knew that there were some good quality airstreamer types out there!!!

great to hear of more cross over in two of my favorite things, I'm a dispatcher most of the time down at the depot, feel free to come say hi!!

Phoenix

[Rivka]

Originally Posted by HHP

x2

Rivka/Buttercup: I am starting to feel that kids should be banned too. the last few years I have seen too much intervention from BLM because "kids are around"...

what do you think?

Hart

I strongly disagree, with the right forethought, good parenting and kids of the right age, burningman can be both a blast of a summer adventure and a valuable part of a life of learning.

I am a child who grew up around festivals and traveling and I am a greater person for it no question. Was there down sides to that "kind" of a upbringing, yes. But that was not because i was out there , but because my parents were not always doing their job. That is the big factor. Have you ever checked out Kids Kamp? it is a amazing place. do i think a 12 girl should be left to roam around? NO. I think the best age is somewhere between 3-10 and them let them come back after they have dealt with teenager-hood in a calmer place. And parents that bring there kids need to understand that like in most other things in life their kids experience comes first. as does their safety.

I spend one after noon with some kids that had set up a face painting booth/ lemonade stand back in 99, it was right in front of their parents camp and they were watched from the shade and other wise left to play out their idea they had come with. They were the hit of the block, got tons of fun trinkets and more friends than they ever knew what to do with. It is one of my fondest memories. hands down.

for it to be a comunity it must always have families...

PhoeniX

[Zeppelinium]

I'll go with Rivka. As long as the parents interact with their kids, it's fine.

It's some of the adults that can't handle adult situations that I worry about. We got plenty of those very near here...

[HHP]

Well, your painting a picture that it is some kind of family Disneyland for kids. And in many aspects, it is just not true.

The fact is, kids have given LE and BLM the excuse to intervene in what was once a mostly free exercise in radical self expression. I have witnessed searches of areas on the premise that "I saw a child around here..." Kids have now become "probable cause" to search and question.

I witnessed many "attractions" (Like the orgasma-tron, PM me for what the attraction did for BM's female guests, in record time, I might add...) removed (or shut down) from the promenade, and "displays" from camps like Jiffy lube removed, for the "kids sake." (PM me for what the displays contained).

And in each case, BLM, LE was correct in their concerns for the Kids. It is debatable if Kids (9-16) should be exposed to these adult attractions. I think not, IMHO.

I still stand by my feelings that Kids should be banned, because we are going to be restricted more and more, as LE and BLM use kids as an excuse.

[Zeppelinium]

You have a point, a good point. But when did it happen that BLM became the arbiter of children's morals and experiences? Obstensibly, you can't just wander into BM--you have to have a ticket and presumably it's so far off the map that you'd have to know what's there in order to have arrived at the gate. Parents should know what to expect and should "interact" with their children accordingly. There are things that children should not observe or participate in, for sure. But in this well-advertised environment, parents should be responsible. Period.

There is an interesting sign in the Saline Valley. 20 years ago when Death Valley National Park annexed much of the Saline, they recognized the nudity that had historically been a part of the hot springs experience. The last time I was there, there was a sign that simply warned all comers that nudity was practiced and permitted--essentially, don't bitch to the rangers. Seems to work. BM is clearly even more deserving of this kind of protection.

[Buttercup]

Not to be a curmudgeon or anything but this topic was discussed ad nausium on the eplaya (and still is sometimes). Weather anybody likes it or not, kids will be coming to the playa and they are welcome as far as I am concerned. The organizers have gone a long way to make an event that meets the needs of people with families as well as those individuals without children. It does not turn the event into Disneyland. All of the activities that you want to do that children should not see you still can do – behind closed doors if you will.


Ones desire for “radical self expression”, the root goal of the event, should not hamper another's desires for the same. And if that means kids come out, then you will have to find a slightly different avenue to get your expression on.


One thing about the “adult activities” that occur on the playa, much of it has always been illegal in the state of Nevada or as a federal law anyway. Where law enforcement turned a blind eye to it before, now they do focus on it more closely. But to tell you the truth, it has nothing to do with children and everything to do with the almighty dollar. Long story but there may be a few on this list who will remember or who have heard when the “law” took over the gate in 1996 and collected money from the participants coming in the gate. It was a fiasco. The organizers have come a long way in negotiating with law enforcement and the result is what you see today. It is the safest event that one can go to in terms of crime. Per capita, there are fewer arrests for anything than at many of our local festivals (air races, balloon races, Hot August Nights).


Look - this discussion probably is not reasonable for these forums and would probably be better handled on the eplaya.

[HHP]

behind closed doors if you will....

Might as well stay home then....

At any rate, good points made all around....


If everyone is now behind closed doors, that defeats the goal of total participation. Camps then become closed and clickish (and this is already happening, if one is honest about it). And I can't blame them, hiding it from LE and "the kids"....

[Tahoe Joe]

This will be our 4th burn in an AS, last 3 in a borrrowed '99 31' Excella, but this year in our own '72 31' Excella. Just bought it a month ago and made the fatal error of looking under the carpet. In the middle of a major do-over but we should have the floor back in by the burn week. Looking forward to taking up residence at BRC in our own stately AS playa dome. For any first timers, Buttercup has it right, the BM website has a plethora of info for you, the most important points being participation and tolerance. Also make sure your window and door seals are tight, no sense in bringing home more playa dust than necessary. Joe (Fate and 6:30)

[Zeppelinium]

it's embarrassing, but I have resorted to duct tape to keep the dust out in other dusty places. what the heck, it's BM... maybe someone will think it is art.

[Buttercup]

Tahoe,

You know better than that - there NO WAY to seal out the dust. But I will be putting together a positive pressure system for this year. It will consist of a filtration system and fans to pump clean air in the trailer. Last year, we had tons of dust and we did keep it closed up. It blew in from everywhere.

Originally Posted by Tahoe Joe

This will be our 4th burn in an AS, last 3 in a borrrowed '99 31' Excella, but this year in our own '72 31' Excella. Just bought it a month ago and made the fatal error of looking under the carpet. In the middle of a major do-over but we should have the floor back in by the burn week. Looking forward to taking up residence at BRC in our own stately AS playa dome. For any first timers, Buttercup has it right, the BM website has a plethora of info for you, the most important points being participation and tolerance. Also make sure your window and door seals are tight, no sense in bringing home more playa dust than necessary. Joe (Fate and 6:30)

[Rivka]

Buttercup, you are a wise person, i now really want to meet you formally on playa.

and the great thing about burningman is it can handle the disagreements just fine, life out there is full of them with no worry.

you're also right that this is not the place for the talk, I will leave it at directing people to the burningman,com website and from there, like you said, a million conversations an on just about everything.

have fun , stay dusty!

Rivka aka PhoeniX

[summerkid]

I, for one, have read this whole discussion with great interest, so please don't feel as if it isn't welcome here .... BM is basically a rally & you're discussing issues that come up in other rally venues as well.

I'm really, really curious & might really, really attend one sometime!

[David Ludwig]

I'll be there. My girlfriend June and I are both virgins, but the class of the Airstream and the edginess of the event seem to compliment each other. I'm getting excited.

David

[Buttercup]

Originally Posted by summerkid

I, for one, have read this whole discussion with great interest, so please don't feel as if it isn't welcome here .... BM is basically a rally & you're discussing issues that come up in other rally venues as well.

I'm really, really curious & might really, really attend one sometime!

BM is like a rally. Yet I could make comparisons between the International and Burning Man. Burning Man flows... It works so well and the International was clunky and uncomfortable.

Someday I will write up that comparison...

But you should attend one sometime - soon.

[CanoeStream]

Originally Posted by Zeppelinium

It's embarrassing, but I have resorted to duct tape to keep the dust out in other dusty places.

Zep, yee-ouch!! Doesn't it hurt when you pull it off? (sorry, got carried away with the Burning Man spirit)

A couple weeks ago it was interesting to see Stefrobrts also visits boingboing.net. I try to browse as often as possible. See this link for a goofy project arriving at BM next week! Is it built on an old steamroller?

Quoting boingboing: "The Neverwas Haul is a fantastic steam-powered, mobile 3 story Victorian mansion that is being constructed for Burning Man 2006 by a team of industrious lunatics. The NeverWas Haul explores the theme of the intrepid explorer, boldly adventuring into the unknown, seeking golden cities, mysterious artifacts, fame and glory. This pre-turn of the century, steam powered, mobile Victorian house is 3 stories in height, and is decorated with the relics and artifacts collected in its journey around the globe, as well as a few more specimens collected in Black Rock City. Participants are interviewed, measured and documented in arcane and amusing scientific experiments. Traditional Irish tea is served every afternoon, and visitors may tour the Haul and be impressed by our advanced steam technology and finely polished brass scientific instruments."

[rebfa]

So, how does one go about joining other Airstreams and parking in "Burnstream Court".