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Old 01-11-2016, 08:58 AM   #1
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Boondocking and the Bundy Gang

All you boondockers better take head. Bundy isn't the only activist who would like to see Federal land transferred to the states. There is a growing push by miners, loggers, and mostly ranchers to get more benefits from the federal land around them. This has been many years in the making, partly due to in some cases not so great management by BLM and Forest Service, but also due to the feeling of locals that they've used the land for years and they almost believe (maybe they do believe) that they are entitled to it. But they aren't. We own the land, they don't. They get to use it only in so far as the rules allow, just like us.

If they want to know why their access is being gradually restricted, all you have to do is look at the population. It's growing. It's not the government's fault that preservation of the land for all requires additional restrictions in the face of increased population pressure.

Land use policy in the West has obscured the fact that it's almost impossible to make a living on 160 or 240 acres of arid land. So the lease of BLM land has deluded the ranching community into thinking (1) they can hack it in the desert and (2) that it's a right. Well, they are wrong. (Read Cadillac Desert if you doubt this.)

The bottom line for us, however, is to get politically active and stop any notion that BLM land should be transferred to the states.

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Old 01-11-2016, 09:07 AM   #2
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The Bunday saga is just ridiculous... pass the popcorn...
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Old 01-11-2016, 09:15 AM   #3
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Bundy issue is slightly unique from other ranchers who have problems with the BLM in that their group believes the federal government is "illegitimate" and thus the land doesn't belong to the feds, but the state. And since the state doesn't claim it, and the feds are illegitimate, it's fair game.

That amounts to nonsense.

Now some of the bigger issues, is when the feds keep buying up all the land around you, that you used to graze. Also, when the feds own like 80% of your state. I love our natural resources, and want them protected.

But I refuse to believe the issues are black and white.
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Old 01-11-2016, 09:16 AM   #4
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We're gonna have to agree to disagree. The more power taken away from the federal and given to the states is what we need. The states know best for their people , not the beltway politicians. The more we rely on the Feds, the more we lose our rights. Turn the federal land over to each state.
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Old 01-11-2016, 09:36 AM   #5
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It's been happening for quite a long time. Even when I was young, the ranchers out here would fence off leased Federal lands (which is ok) and post no trespassing signs, keeping citizens out of the property (which is not ok). If you're a sportsperson, hiker, hunter, fisher, camper, or whatever, those guys treat you like a trespassing criminal and use their firearms to make sure you know it. Kind of hard to argue that you are legally camping on public property (state or federal) when some rancher is pointing a rifle at your chest.

And this matter has been repeatedly examined by the justice system. It's plain and clear in the Constitution who these lands belong to, and two Supreme Courts have reexamined the matter (most recent in 1935) and judged in favor of the Feds.


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Old 01-11-2016, 09:56 AM   #6
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Yeah, Florida has done such a wonderful job of protecting the land. I'm no huge fan of the federal government but land management at the state level is all about rape, pillage and enrich your developer friends. Florida is a prime example of why states shouldn't have the final say in protecting public lands.
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Old 01-11-2016, 10:01 AM   #7
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Without all the details, I understand the Bundy mindset somewhat.

My family lost a LOT of land and other "private property" as the "spoils of the Civil war"... and they were against slavery.

Big government (for dang sure not a BROTHER) is in control... and we each choose sides... usually many, perhaps most are waiting for the 'spoils' to come.
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Old 01-11-2016, 11:44 AM   #8
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When you dismantle the federal land program in favor of the states you can almost predict the outcome. Some legislator will decide that selling the land will temporarily cover a shortfall in the state budget. If you think it will end up in the hands of some small rancher, you are dreaming. It will go to a large corporate entity and your rights along with the rights of small ranchers and farmers to use the land will come to a screeching halt.
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Old 01-11-2016, 11:44 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avionstream View Post
We're gonna have to agree to disagree. The more power taken away from the federal and given to the states is what we need. The states know best for their people , not the beltway politicians. The more we rely on the Feds, the more we lose our rights. Turn the federal land over to each state.
Baloney! That land is as much mine as it is your or theirs. No way Montana or Oregon or Nevada or any other state is going to consider my wishes, from a 1000 miles away and another state, in the equation. The whole point is that this land belongs to the nation. The Bundy's and the rest have no more right to the land than any of us do. If they don't like the deal they shouldn't be signing up to use the land! Let them buy their own land if they don't like the terms is using ours! Until the Bundy's pay their debt they don't even have a say.
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Old 01-11-2016, 12:03 PM   #10
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Political Views

I'd suggest you all find a different venue to express your political views. I don't believe they belong on this forum.
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Old 01-11-2016, 12:06 PM   #11
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Baloney! That land is as much mine as it is your or theirs. No way Montana or Oregon or Nevada or any other state is going to consider my wishes, from a 1000 miles away and another state, in the equation. The whole point is that this land belongs to the nation. The Bundy's and the rest have no more right to the land than any of us do. If they don't like the deal they shouldn't be signing up to use the land! Let them buy their own land if they don't like the terms is using ours! Until the Bundy's pay their debt they don't even have a say.
Bingo! Well said. Guess where any of us would be if we pointed a loaded weapon at a law enforcement officer and threatened them? The big injustice is that none of those people at the Bundy ranch in Nevada have been prosecuted.
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Old 01-11-2016, 12:08 PM   #12
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The Bunday saga is just ridiculous... pass the popcorn...
Amen...
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Old 01-11-2016, 12:11 PM   #13
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Baloney! That land is as much mine as it is your or theirs. No way Montana or Oregon or Nevada or any other state is going to consider my wishes, from a 1000 miles away and another state, in the equation. The whole point is that this land belongs to the nation. The Bundy's and the rest have no more right to the land than any of us do. If they don't like the deal they shouldn't be signing up to use the land! Let them buy their own land if they don't like the terms is using ours! Until the Bundy's pay their debt they don't even have a say.
The land belongs to the citizen of the states involved, not to the people of the whole US who don't have the local knowledge or local interest in mind. We must get away from the idea that the federal govt is our daddy.
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Old 01-11-2016, 12:12 PM   #14
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Would the states be better stewards of the lands? If you can't trust the feds then why can you trust the states or even local governments. Most states are running deficit economies so how are they going to afford to manage the land? They could just sell it off to special interests that could be destructive.

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