Black Ice

[kscherzi]

Probably the last thing anybody wants to encounter, especially with your Airstream trailer in back. Watching the weather channel they posed the following choices if you find yourself in a patch of black ice. Do you:

1. Accelerate through the patch?
2. Let off the gas and coast?
3. Press hard on the brakes?

[Protagonist]

Don't know the right answer, but the last time I encountered black ice, on an overpass just outside Dallas one Thanksgiving weekend, what I actually did was let off the accelerator and coasted through, and heaved a huge sigh of relief on the other side.

[nrgtrakr]

2 ...

[j-ten-ner]

Any change of the driving forces while driving on black ice can set you flying.
Accelerating, braking or change of direction. No matter what you choose, do it gently.

Given the three choices it would be #2 of course. But even then, let go of the pedal easy. And disengage the tow/haul mode to prevent early down shifting and engine braking.

so long
j-ten-ner

[scamp]

Originally Posted by j-ten-ner

Any change of the driving forces while driving on black ice can set you flying.
Accelerating, braking or change of direction. No matter what you choose, do it gently.

Given the three choices it would be #2 of course. But even then, let go of the pedal easy. And disengage the tow/haul mode to prevent early down shifting and engine braking.

so long
j-ten-ner

This is the best answer what j-ten-ner said ,as Canadians we deal with icy roads all winter long approx 6 months of the year so we know what it's like but if it was a multiple question test the best answer would be # 2 , but it isn't the best thing to do as like what j-ten-new said any change in driving force and start a skid.
Don

[cwbiii]

Coast and pray the person in front of you does the same...

I once had the person in front of me apply the brakes and the only choice I had was to do the same. We both went sideways along the same path and when we came to a stop I did not touch the other car, but there was barely an inch of space between the cars along the whole length. I probably could not do that again and do not wish to find out.

Chuck

[Piggy Bank]

Bur since we are on this topic, if you are NOT towing, but driving in winter, do remember that you need to apply the brakes firmly and hard to stop in a skid, not pump the brakes.

Many who may have learned to drive before antilock brakes learned to pump the brakes, which was correct before antilock brakes came on the scene.

But in any icy situation, drive slower than typical, leave more room between your vehicle and others, choose drive instead of over drive. Downshift to a lower gear on hills.

And try to avoid changing directions and changing speeds at the same time. That is, slow down first and then drive into a turn or curve.

[Punch]

Yes, avoid changing anything when meeting very slippery conditions. I agree that even means don't just suddenly release the gas pedal: do it easily.

I disagree about pumping brakes with ABS. I have tried every technique over the years (plenty of opportunity up here!) and simply slamming down hard on your ABS brakes in extremely slippery conditions will mean that you stop much less quickly than you wish, and that you go in an absolutely straight line..... which may be very inconvenient! Quick hard pumping will make you stop faster with ABS brakes, and if you need to stop while steering left or right, it is the only way you can do so.

Another point: As I have found myself, anti-sway and weight-distributing hitches mean that if you brake with them attached, your entire tow and towing rig assembly will skid as an immensely long unit.... think about it, you may be 60' long, and trying to do a 180 on the highway! You are better off under these conditions disconnecting the add-ons and then using your trailer brakes to do most of your braking for you. When you press the brake pedal, before your truck brakes start to work, the trailer brakes will come on. It is very safe to cautiously brake using the trailer brakes..... they keep you in a straight line. This is of course an only-if-you-are-forced-to-tow-on-ice situation.

If driving on snow, treat both your brake and gas pedal as if there is an egg between your foot and the pedal, and you don't want to crush it. Do everything very easily.

That's the Canadian Experience!

[nrgtrakr]

Both of our vehicles have antilock brakes. I learned to drive before antilock brakes in the Colorado mountains. Curious about how antilock brakes work on ice and snow, I checked - they lock up tight because there is no resistance to activate the antilock.
When I need braking on ice or snow, I'll continue to pump my brakes thank you.

[Punch]

Originally Posted by nrgtrakr

Both of our vehicles have antilock brakes. I learned to drive before antilock brakes in the Colorado mountains. Curious about how antilock brakes work on ice and snow, I checked - they lock up tight because there is no resistance to activate the antilock.
When I need braking on ice or snow, I'll continue to pump my brakes thank you.

Yes, I agree. If I could disable the ABS system for winter driving, I would do so.

[Protagonist]

One word to keep firmly in the front of your mind when driving on ice or snow— downshift! Even if you have an automatic transmission, you should downshift to slow down, and only apply the brakes to stop after you have worked your way down to 1st gear. Considering how even a quarter-inch of snow shuts down the New Orleans metro area, I'm sure glad I learned to drive in Oklahoma where snow is an annual occurrence, even if it doesn't last long there.

[Aerowood]

I actually had this happen a few years ago coming home from a mid fall rally, while going over a bridge I saw the truck in front of me fishtail slightly, I slowly released the gas peddle and reached for the manual control of the trailer brakes. At that time the SUV that was passing me in the left lane hit the brakes hard and went sideways just in front of me. I pulsed the trailer brakes without applying the truck brakes and thru the truck in to 4 wheel drive. The SUV slammed into the guard rail and I was able to maneuver around him using trailer brakes only. I reached dry pavement and saw another assisting the SUV in my mirror. I then pulled over at the next opportunity to let my heart rate decrease

[Len n Jeanne]

Folks, also watch out for slush on the road, notably when driving in the mountains in that belt where rain turns to snow. The surface under the slush is liable to be glare ice.

We generally drive with studded snow tires in winter, which can be some help. Mostly to get up our driveway.

[Piggy Bank]

Curious, those who recommend pumping with abs--do you pump harder or faster or differently than standard brakes

[gandttimes]

Do not pump with ABS!


George

[handn]

Originally Posted by Protagonist

One word to keep firmly in the front of your mind when driving on ice or snow— downshift! Even if you have an automatic transmission, you should downshift to slow down, and only apply the brakes to stop after you have worked your way down to 1st gear. Considering how even a quarter-inch of snow shuts down the New Orleans metro area, I'm sure glad I learned to drive in Oklahoma where snow is an annual occurrence, even if it doesn't last long there.

I wouldn't do this towing an Airstream. Braking with one set of wheels on the tow vehicle only will allow the unbraked trailer to keep moving forward jackknifing the rig.
As our Canadian friends have said, the best thing to do in black ice conditions is nothing--no sudden movements which would induce a spin.
If you have to brake, trailer brakes only would be the best as it will keep the rig in a straight line but it will take forever to slow using trailer brakes.
The best thing to do in black ice is get off the road.
Next best is to drive slow enough not to outrace your brakes which in black ice conditions is very slowly towing a trailer. Savy semi truck drivers are driving 10 to 15 mph in extreme winter conditions.
Since I once stayed and Holiday Inn Express and am an expert you should pump your brakes even with anti lock brakes, reason: unbraked front wheels have greater steering force. You need to pump the brakes and steer at the same time keeping the vehicle in the direction you want to go. Anti lock brakes want to keep your vehicle moving in a straight line, not good if you need to turn.

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by handn

I wouldn't do this towing an Airstream. Braking with one set of wheels on the tow vehicle only will allow the unbraked trailer to keep moving forward jackknifing the rig.

I don't believe I said anything about braking with only one set of brakes by using the parking brake or braking with only the tow vehicle's brakes and not the trailer's brakes. All I said was that if you must stop on slippery pavement, downshift to slow down before applying the brakes. Please don't put my foot in my mouth for me; I can do that just fine on my own!

[Gearheart]

Speaking from experience, even just letting off the gas can be deadly, let alone down shifting. Engine compression can put enough of a braking effect on the driving wheels to cause loss of traction. I once did a triple axel on the 401 just by letting off the gas. The car ahead of me flashed brake lights. By the grace of God I hit nobody and found a soft landing in a snow drift. It took us an hour to dig out. Always carry a shovel in winter. At night you can see black ice. The reflections of the tail lights ahead all of a sudden become too clear on the road. The road starts to look like a mirror. Be aware and ready. Bridges are notorious for black ice. Just coast and steer. You'll be back in charge on the other side. Shifting into neutral or pushing in the clutch makes more sense than shifting to a lower gear.

[StrmyWeather]

Thought I would join in. I don't have a trailer yet, but am always interested in these AS discussions, especially when the topic includes snow, ice, or mountainous driving. I once had the misfortune of loosing control with just a loaded 6x12 dual axle U-Haul trailer pulled by my 1/2 ton truck. I came up to a spot on I-10 just west of I-75 where I could see that it was raining up ahead. The other thing I noticed was that the ruts in the outside lane had puddled. I let off the accelerator too late. The combination of doing that and hitting the puddle caused the trailer to push ahead and the truck to plane. Needless to say it was quite an experience to slide from the outside westbound lane, across the median, and come to a stop in the middle of the eastbound lane; somewhere around 100+ yards. No steering, no friction, no nothing. Jackknife the trailer and go along for the ride. I guess we could refer to it as Florida's black ice. I'm looking forward to learning more about trailer braking control, engine braking, etc. I'm really careful now with towing. I can imagine what it would have done to my boat or an AS under those circumstances. I no longer tow over 65, and usually about 60, when conditions are good. I was lucky and don't want to relive that experience. Having a trailer attached really cuts down on one's options when trying to dodge a mishap/mistake. Of course, I got to FSU to unload my son's stuff and he was amazed I had done such a poor job packing. I pointed out plants in/on/under the trailer's wheel wells and tongue, and dent in the side of the truck, and suggested he learn to drive better than his father.

[JamuJoe]

Originally Posted by nrgtrakr

Both of our vehicles have antilock brakes. I learned to drive before antilock brakes in the Colorado mountains. Curious about how antilock brakes work on ice and snow, I checked - they lock up tight because there is no resistance to activate the antilock.
When I need braking on ice or snow, I'll continue to pump my brakes thank you.

It is good to try your particular vehicle's brakes and handling on ice in a safe location. My antilock brakes absolutely operate on ice as designed. 2014 Jeep GC Overland Diesel in Durango, CO.



Safe Travels,
Jamu Joe