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mtpalms · 09-02-2005, 09:10 PM

I am still not convinced that if they can get permission to dril in ANWR, that they can't permission to build new refineries. The stickler appears to be that they don't want to meet EPA standards. If my car has to pass EPA standards (smog test), so should they.

I wouldn't mind paying $3+ a gallon for gas, if it funded clean new refineries.

Tinsel Loaf · 09-02-2005, 10:02 PM

Don't say "I wouldn't mind paying $3+ a gallon for gas, if it funded clean new refineries." They will take that to mean $ 6.00 a gallon !!!!! You klazy?

j54mark · 09-02-2005, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtpalms

I am still not convinced that if they can get permission to dril in ANWR, that they can't permission to build new refineries. The stickler appears to be that they don't want to meet EPA standards. If my car has to pass EPA standards (smog test), so should they.

It appears the problem is not EPA, but local standards. The EPA defers to local agencies in many areas, and there can be, and frequently are a hodgepodge of city, county, and state requirements that are left purposfully vague so as to allow petty officials to have their say. And it is always easier to just say "no", isn't it? So, California gets no oil refineries, no powerplants, no nothing, but it is somebody else's "greed" who cause their high prices.

This is not to say that some oversight is not necessary. It is to say that the process has become largely impossible.

Mark

Minnie's Mate · 09-02-2005, 10:24 PM

You know it's not just the individual that gets hurt by these fuel prices. My wife is a teacher in our local school system. The budget for this year was set more than a year ago. There had already been much talk about what areas of the budgets would have to be cut in many school systems to make up for the higher than expected fuel cost for the busses this year.

One of the smaller neighboring counties had to cancel school today because of the cost of fuel for the school busses. With a given number of students, bus capacity, and given bus routes you can only combine so many routes before you have to start cutting staff and new text books and other supplies.

We live in one of the most prosperous counties in our state and my wife gets next to nothing already for school supplies; I think she gets less than $50/year for supplies and materials and it has been that way for years. She has already used her year's alotment of photocopies for test and worksheets and its only the third week of school (we have a modified year round calendar). She pays for virtually all of her supplies and materials out of her own pocket. The state's target class size is something like 18 students and she has 21 and she has the smallest class in her grade level. She told me if they get 3-4 more third graders (which is very likely) by law they will have to hire another third grade teacher.

So where does the extra fuel for school busses come from? State law requires 180 days of school. The neighboring county will have to make up school today at some point. Where will that fuel come from on that day? Where will the money for the higher fuel cost for our school system come from for this week's high priced fuel?

Uberlanders · 09-02-2005, 10:34 PM

At this date, our school district has already spent as much for gas as it did for the whole year last year. Some classes at my school are at 45 (lab science) because our district would not let us rehire after retirements or add new staff. Class size is supposed to be at 28 according to our contract; my classes are at 30-34. We were given an estimate for how many kids to plan for and we are now 100 over with new kids still enrolling. Coaches, yes coaches, have offered to cut all sports this year in order to hire new teachers and to reduce transportation costs. Of course the district wouldn't have it, we have to have sports and raise test scores so we can meet the requirements of No Child Left Behind. Thanks GW

And my heart bleeds for these children that are homeless and schooless in these affected areas. The cycle of poverty, man or nature created, continues to keep children from becoming their potential.

Ok I'm off my soapbox now.

mtpalms · 09-03-2005, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j54mark

It appears the problem is not EPA, but local standards. The EPA defers to local agencies in many areas, and there can be, and frequently are a hodgepodge of city, county, and state requirements that are left purposfully vague so as to allow petty officials to have their say. And it is always easier to just say "no", isn't it? So, California gets no oil refineries, no powerplants, no nothing, but it is somebody else's "greed" who cause their high prices.

This is not to say that some oversight is not necessary. It is to say that the process has become largely impossible.

Mark

Big Money talks. If companies like Tyson can ramrod commercial feedlots and packing plants (eewwwweeee! Talk about stench, filth, and pollution!) into small towns, then those oil companies should have no problem building a refinery. Other noisome plants get built one way or another.

I just don't see why an oil refinery is any different than any other power or processing plant, and no one else has been able to explain it to me so far either. 30+ years is a longggg time for -zero growth in any industry.

Honestly, I would welcome an explanation about what sets them apart from other NIMBY projects.

Davydd · 09-03-2005, 12:11 PM

I just got back from one of the poorest countries in the Americas, Bolivia. Gasoline there works out to about $13 per gallon yet you can get a beer in a fine restaurant for 50 cents.

wingfoot321 · 09-03-2005, 02:53 PM

I buy an investment newsletter online from a Phd economist named George Dagnino. He was just shaking his head last year about the decision by the Bush administration to weaken the US dollar to try to increase exports and reduce imports especially from China. Instead of just hammering them into reevaluating their currency, we mamby pamby around the issue.

Guess what happens to an American's purchasing power. I haven't checked recently but, I think approx 30% of what you pay for gasoline is for the devaluation of the US dollar. The barrel of oil is priced in our dollars everywhere in the world so there are consequences. The total account deficit is running at approx 600B+ so I don't think it helped much.

This was a very short sighted political decision.

Incidently, I think every teacher in the country is doing the same thing. I know in Ohio where my daughter in law teaches, she is doing the same thing on school supplies. Also in Tennessee where I live.

I wonder what India and China are doing where all the world's engineers, etc. are coming from now. But, we have the billions for Iraq!

Then folks try to tell me we have the necessary resources for guns and butter. I just smile and watch the US lose it competitiveness in the world.

Sorry, Enough soapbox

Stagehand · 09-03-2005, 05:23 PM

Guys,

Went to get 10 gallons for the PU Truck. $3.49 regular.
Would not accept my Card.
Pump says "see attendant".
Go inside and he says we only have the Hi-test, most expensive.
I said "see ya".
Go to the next station, $3.29 regular, no problem.

About those schools, don't ever let them tell you they don't have the money.
They are a business. Here, the rich school sustem, PG county, puts on a "poor face". The principals (managers) get a bonus for the money they don't spend.

wkerfoot · 09-03-2005, 06:03 PM

I heard on the TV this morning that Georgia has suspended the gas and sales tax for a total of 11.5 cents, effective this morning at 12:00. Did anyone notice that the price went down by that amount or any amount?

Bill

mtpalms · 09-03-2005, 08:07 PM

::We interrupt this thread for an important announcement to teachers::

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingfoot321

Incidently, I think every teacher in the country is doing the same thing. I know in Ohio where my daughter in law teaches, she is doing the same thing on school supplies. Also in Tennessee where I live.

Teachers get $250 deduction on income tax - this is a direct deduction, no Sched A requirement. It may seem small, but most people don't meet the requirement for filing Sched A, so it's better than most deductions for most people.

::We now rteurn you to your regularly scheduled thread.::

till · 09-05-2005, 09:17 AM

On the teacher thing here....
Last year there was a item on our ballots for a teacher pay increase. It was passed in a big way. Funny thing is that it gat redirected to the administration instead of the teachers...... talk about P' ing me off!! Last time I vote for any increase till the bums get voted out, which I will do my part to help.

We had a tax break on gas here last year (or was that tow years ago?) and we did see it at the pumps.

I agree how can we be sending BILLIONS over seas, when things are as screwed up here at home as they are????? I keep voting for the better canidated and things keep getting worse.

Maybe I should move to a different contry.....

mtpalms · 09-05-2005, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by till

On the teacher thing here....
Last year there was a item on our ballots for a teacher pay increase. It was passed in a big way. Funny thing is that it gat redirected to the administration instead of the teachers...... talk about P' ing me off!! Last time I vote for any increase till the bums get voted out, which I will do my part to help.

Every time there is an election, there is a ballot measure for the schools that promises to help the students and teachers, and it always passes - and they take the equivilant amount out of the general fund for administrative salaries and perks, the ubiquitous 'blue ribbon' panels (how I hate that phrase), etc.
They always pass, but I never vote for them.