Accident...

[Bruce B]

Nobody likes seeing these but it can serve as a reminder to people... “Let’s be careful out there!”
Brucehttps://www.stgeorgeutah.com/news/ar.../#.W1hxUaQpDDu

[OTRA15]

Thanks for the heads up. Ugh! At least everyone is OK apparently.

The AS owner just got the rig two weeks ago, and experienced a sway event, it seems.

The motor home driver said " . . . the pickup truck and trailer started to swerve in front of him and he tried to slow down but the trailer hit the median wall and slid across two lanes of traffic directly in front of him.“I almost made it,” he said, looking at the mangled front end of his 35-foot motor home and the broken windshield lying on the ground."

The AS is from Las Vegas. Wonder if we will hear from them?

Drive carefully out there, folks!

Peter

PS -- No bikes on that Fiamma rack.
PS2 -- Quite a few reports of winds causing rollovers on I-15 in that general area FWIW:
https://www.google.com/search?client....0.dpJnZ745vAA

[Baby Zeppelin]

Feel badly for the people involved. So sad to see a two week old Airstream heavily damaged.

Would like to know more though. What model Nissan Frontier and Airstream? The 4.0 liter V-6 model can tow 6500 lbs. with 800 lb hitch weight using WD, if I've read the specs correctly. Was weight distribution used? How fast was the rig going? Gusty side winds?

I'm sure the poor Airstream owner is asking himself a lot of the same questions, but it would be helpful to learn from his incident. My condolences.

[boondockdad]

seeing an Airstream on its side is like getting a gut punch

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by Erik

Feel badly for the people involved. So sad to see a two week old Airstream heavily damaged.

Would like to know more though. What model Nissan Frontier and Airstream? The 4.0 liter V-6 model can tow 6500 lbs. with 800 lb hitch weight using WD, if I've read the specs correctly. Was weight distribution used? How fast was the rig going? Gusty side winds?

I'm sure the poor Airstream owner is asking himself a lot of the same questions, but it would be helpful to learn from his incident. My condolences.

Hi

The gotcha is that there pretty much never is a full analysis / full data dump on these incidents. All those wonderful details ( what hitch ... what options on the truck .. set up how ... what speed ...) that we'd love to draw conclusions from are likely to be missing forever.

The why is sort of weird. People rarely get killed in these accidents. They get shook up, but mostly walk away with minor cuts and bruises. The insurance company writes a check and the world move on. None of that triggers any sort of deep dive from law enforcement or any other organization.

So we're left with guesses. Going to fast, yup probably part of it. Lack of training / experience / knowledge, yup probably part of it as well. Weird distraction at just the wrong point, might come into the story. Equipment failure here or there, unlikely, but it does happen.

Lots of guesses, very little data.

Bob

[pt.reyesfan]

Regarding "sway" and travel trailers: We just completed a 5 week trip with our Airstream Classic, from Illinois to California and back, with a long lay-over in Northern CA. We drove I-80 and other interstates on the trip. I drive relatively slow (at 60 - 63 mph). We were passed by many travel trailer-vehicle combos on the trip, and some of these travelers-with-trailers were driving a lot faster than me. My estimate is that about 20% of the travel trailers that passed me had sway issues, to varying degrees. Some of the sway issues were so bad that I would slow down to make sure I was far behind them. I recorded many of the worst sway events with my dash cam. A review of my camera pic storage shows that 2 of the trailers I recorded with sway issues were Airstreams. Bottom line: I think there are a lot of travelers out there who don't know how close they are to having a sway event.

[boondockdad]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

The gotcha is that there pretty much never is a full analysis / full data dump on these incidents. All those wonderful details ( what hitch ... what options on the truck .. set up how ... what speed ...) that we'd love to draw conclusions from are likely to be missing forever.

The why is sort of weird. People rarely get killed in these accidents. They get shook up, but mostly walk away with minor cuts and bruises. The insurance company writes a check and the world move on. None of that triggers any sort of deep dive from law enforcement or any other organization.

So we're left with guesses. Going to fast, yup probably part of it. Lack of training / experience / knowledge, yup probably part of it as well. Weird distraction at just the wrong point, might come into the story. Equipment failure here or there, unlikely, but it does happen.

Lots of guesses, very little data.

Bob

Read: let’s forgo all the SWAG

[smithcreek]

My wife sent me a link to a post on Airstream Addicts on facebook about a rollover that happened about a week ago. The people who rolled made the post. They bought a 22fb and had no brake controller, WD hitch and maybe an "anti-sway" bar. The wife was driving and when the trailer started to sway her husband first told her "hit the gas", then when it got worse, "slow down", then when it got ever worse, "gun it!". It was all over after that.

Amazing that someone could get to the point where they buy a trailer and get it on the road, but be so ignorant and get so much wrong. The husband blames it on the dealership who he claims never told him he needed a brake controller or WD hitch. I'm not even sure is an AS dealer since they bought it used.


The most scary part was reading the comment section after the post. The number of people who are members of that facebook group and own trailers that were asking the most basic questions about WD, loading, brake controllers, etc what shocking.


Here is his written account:

"Ok..herewith the post mortem on our rollover accident.
Tow vehicle: 2016 Toyota Tacoma, fully loaded.
Airstream: 2018 22' fb Sport Bambi
No fresh or gray water, 50% black tank
55mph heading north on Hwy 101 at 6:45pm in moderate traffic.
Anti-sway bar deployed.
We crested a slight rise while travelling slightly slower than prevailing traffic in the slow lane.
With no warning or event occurring the Airstream developed a slight sway (+- 6" side to side).
Within seconds the sway amplitude started increasing.
I advised my wife driving to increase speed to entrain the trailer into a straight direction of motion.
She sped up slightly and the sway increased. (Now at 12-18" )
Bewildered, I advised letting off the gas with no brakes. This increased the sway still more, filling our entire lane.
Cars around us braked to give us space.
Desperate, I yelled to gun it, which was the last straw.
Sway commits to one side, Airstream starts coming around on the left, dragging the rear of the truck with it. All of this shitshow is now travelling sideways down the 101 as I wonder what the appropriate last words should be.
Nose of truck slams right hand concrete wall creating traction and a beautiful pivot point for my entire world.
The wheels realize that they weren't designed to roll sideways, and they grab, filling the cab with items lost under the seat long ago..
Cue grinding noises, glass, airbags, and the appearance of blood, aches, pains and deep mortification.
(Instantly realize that the first ding I put in our baby probably isn't going to be brought up as much any more....)
And
Enter emergency services and the question of where and how are we going to live and travel now that our home is gone.
My conclusions:
1: Tow brake! We didn't have one, was never recommended or even mention by Tampa RV at the time of our purchase.
We had scheduled to have one installed next week. Lesson learned.
2: I'm unsure if something mechanically went wrong. In the 3 hrs towing prior to this there was not a hint of instability. This came from nowhere! I will be forensically inspecting the axle/ wheel assemblies when I get the chance.
3: it's very possible that the black water tank started sloshing and contributed to the sway. I'd be interested to hear opinions on this.
4: The speed at which the situation devolved was startling, even at 55mph. One has only seconds to avert disaster once it begins.
5: Seatbelts! Saved! Our! Lives!"

[uncle_bob]

Hi

At least in our case, the whole "tow vehicle / hitch / safety" thing was very much part of the purchase process. There was a pretty involved piece of paper to sign if we wanted to pull out of the lot with a vehicle that was not spec'd / set up to pull the trailer or if we wanted to pull it without a WD / anti-sway hitch. I suspect that any dealer with insurance gets a "nudge" from the insurance company to put this and that in the paperwork.

None of this is very AS specific. Pulling *any* large-ish TT just on a ball is risky. I believe that since the early 1960's doing so without a brake setup is illegal. We had to retire a trailer for just that reason back in that era.

Of course there *is* also the issue of letting the wife drive ...... no my wife does not read the forum, thus I may still be alive after this post goes live

Bob

[Hittenstiehl]

Though towing naive he is a good writer. He also kept his head enough to try to employ several tactics. Glad he lived to tell. Maybe he should get off Facebook and onto Airforums. That's not a Facebook slam it's just the forurm has more educational information, maybe somebody will invite him over.

[boondockdad]

When we brought each newborn home from the hospital, we had to first show them a proper car seat (Hospital gave people seats gratis).

Picking up your Airstream should be the same thing but, with a brake controller.

[Northerngirl]

Originally Posted by boondockdad

When we brought each newborn home from the hospital, we had to first show them a proper car seat (Hospital gave people seats gratis).

Picking up your Airstream should be the same thing but, with a brake controller.

I bet you had also attended a prenatal class or two as well as read a book or two on what to expect before you brought your baby home. Did you not?

In the case of theroll over mentioned the owner clearly had not read his trailers manual, his trucks manual &/or bothered to look into towing laws prior to hooking up and traveling down the road. All the dealers fault?

The truck/Trailer involved in the accident not only did not have brakes but the truck appeared to be over loaded in regards to Payload & tongue weight. It had a cap over the box with who knows what stored in it. On top of that they had a large storage box- again with who knows how much weight in it. To make matters worse the top box was actually hanging off the rear of the box cap & truck. No WDH to keep the front tires of the truck securely on the ground.

Amazing they made it as far as they did without an accident. Glad they did not kill themselves or anyone they were sharing the road with.

[Lily&Me]

Scary, but sounds like there were no injuries but to ones pride.

It only takes a moment, and having had my first ever serious accident, and in the Interstate, just two months ago, I promise the effects on those owners will linger.

Every single time I enter an intersection, I remember being struck by a semi.

May it all resolve satisfactorily, and drive safely, y’all.

Maggie

[PKI]

Looks to be a 22 Sport or 23FB. Rear door and small rear window on driver's side. Has bumper, so likely not the Sport.

Glad no one was seriously injured. Pat

[OTRA15]

Would those two solar panels fit on a 23' ? The length of the awning makes 25' more likely IMO. The photo in Post #2 will open up as larger if you click on the top bar.

[rmkrum]

Hm. Yes, good description of the accident events.

No, they were NOT by any means prepared to tow a 22 footer with a Tacoma (or any other tow vehicle in the US) without having a tested and properly set brake controller to activate the trailer brakes properly. The first hint of sway should have been the cue to hit the gas AND the manual lever on the brake controller to yank the rig straight. They did not have that option for braking. What the heck were they thinking?

IMHO, the Toyota Tacoma, even a long bed, crew cab version like I started with is just a bit too light to muscle a 22 footer sufficiently to maintain control only on the ball at anything approaching 55 miles per hour. 55 MPH, by the way, is the towing vehicle speed limit in California, for a darn good reason. At least they were (supposedly) not exceeding that speed.

I'm willing to bet the friction anti-sway bar was not installed tight enough, assuming they actually had one. I'm willing to bet they only had WD bars set up, and that was why they got into a hairball.. Our Airstream was bought by my son, and the dealer 'gave' him a Husky brand WD hitch--which did NOT have an anti-sway bar with it. My only conclusion was that my son either drove real slow, managed to avoid steep downhills, or has much faster reflexes than I do...

My first trip with our 22 footer behind our Tacoma started out fine, until I took it downhill. The hitch had WD only, and after several sway starts, stopped by the manual brake lever, I crawled down hill at 35 MPH, 4-ways flashing, whilst the big rigs passed me doing 55. That was the LAST run with an inadequate hitch system.

I keep in mind that stability is what you need when towing. Adequate anti-sway, proper brakes and tires, and a cautious approach to towing is vital to avoiding bent aluminum or people. And, I'm quite sure attempting to blame your failure to comply with the law (brake controller missing) is not going to fly. Ignorance is no excuse. They are, IMHO, lucky stupidity did not hurt worse. Hopefully they learned from this hard lesson--physics does not have mercy on the unprepared.

[DKB_SATX]

Re: the 22' Sport from Tampa RV: Here's what AAA says is Florida's law on trailer brakes:

Trailers must be equipped with brakes if they have a gross weight of 3,000 lbs. or greater. In any combination of motor-drawn vehicles, means shall be provided for applying the rearmost trailer brakes, of any trailer equipped with brakes, in approximate synchronism with the brakes on the towing vehicle.

Yes, the buyer should've done more research, but if Tampa RV set up the hitch they should've mentioned a brake controller. It would be in their best interest to try to sell one and charge for installation, no?

I also wonder if the "anti-sway bar" was tight enough... or tight at all. Sounds like it didn't do anything.

[DKB_SATX]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

Would those two solar panels fit on a 23' ? The length of the awning makes 25' more likely IMO. The photo in Post #2 will open up as larger if you click on the top bar.

AC unit is aft of the skylight and that small off-center rear window looks like 23 with the corner bed/corner bath.

Nope I'm wrong, didn't look at the taillights. It's a Sport 22FB.

Rear door, offset rear window fits 22FB (I didn't notice the rear door that's just barely visible at first either.) I guess there's an optional rear bumper for Sports?

[smithcreek]

Originally Posted by Hittenstiehl

Maybe he should get off Facebook and onto Airforums.

From the little I've been on Airstream Addicts (I only joined to check out the link I posted), there is very little "knowledge" and with the way facebook works, what there is would quickly get lost down the black hole of yesterday's news.


There are 600+ comments after the story. Most are not useful and the general attitude on the site seems to be "don't say anything that might blame the person who had the accident." So, no one seems to be willing to even step up to the plate and try to figure out what else this guy did or did not do to cause the accident. Another case where good info will get lost.


It was a lesson for him and his wife, and from this post it was an expensive lesson:
"Update: through quirk of fate, our insurance had lapsed. We are proper f$%^ed!"

[rmkrum]

Originally Posted by smithcreek

-------------------------snip-----------------------------

It was a lesson for him and his wife, and from this post it was an expensive lesson:
"Update: through quirk of fate, our insurance had lapsed. We are proper f$%^ed!"

Hm. I hear the universe laughing in the background, as the lesson gets driven home (no pun intended) in a well-punctuated manner.

I submit that 'fate' had nothing to do with this one...

A wise friend of mine once said, "Ignorance can be cured, stupidity is forever..." My add is, "Sufficiently prolonged, ignorance is indistinguishable from stupidity."

In this case, another wise friend's appropriate comment was, "Sympathy can be found in the dictionary, between s*it and syphilis." He was not too tolerant of stupidity...nor particularly sympathetic for practitioners of that art...

Ignorance can be cured, but it takes effort, and clear thinking, plus a few Google searches, nowadays. The answers are out there...

The sad bit is that the Airstream, through no fault of it's own, took the beating.