Accident...

[uncle_bob]

Hi

So here we are, yet again with limited information and trying to fill in the holes with guesses.

What's the answer to this? More information would probably make us all safer. How do we get from here to there?

Bob

[OTRA15]

The best solution IMO is to close this thread.

Folks are still discussing both accidents interchangeably, and the "facts" have become so jumbled that any discussion is nearly worthless IMO.

There is no shortage of threads on weight distribution, hitches, sway and so forth.

Close this thread IMO.

Cheers,

Peter

[DKB_SATX]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

~~
If you think you can’t get sway on a Bambi just because it’s hooked to a one ton truck, think again.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This. This right here. You can send an HD work truck off the road with a little welder or compressor trailer if the trailer is a tail-heavy accident-in-waiting and the driver is pushing (or just plain exceeding) the envelope.

[Foiled Again]

Had a Ford 150 ecoboost and went back to a 2500 duramax. Two things I Liked with the Ford were its backup camera and its automatic anti-sway comtrol that braked the trailer automatically. I did toe a 10 meter Avion once with the Ford (NOT recommended but ONE trip) and that anti sway really worked. Even so I drove the qhole distance with my right hand almost glued to the brake controller and never exceeded 55 mph.

[DBinSD]

Originally Posted by Foiled Again

Had a Ford 150 ecoboost and went back to a 2500 duramax. Two things I Liked with the Ford were its backup camera and its automatic anti-sway comtrol that braked the trailer automatically. I did toe a 10 meter Avion once with the Ford (NOT recommended but ONE trip) and that anti sway really worked. Even so I drove the qhole distance with my right hand almost glued to the brake controller and never exceeded 55 mph.

IMO this post speaks volumes!

Thanks for sharing.

[Tyvekcat]

Originally Posted by AlinCal

I've experienced real sway one time, towing a flatbed trailer with a vintage tractor on it with and my at the time 03 Chev 2500hd duramax. Straight road, no wind and level when it began swaying at somewhere around 60 MPH, slowed and pulled off the intersate and moved my load(tractor) another foot forward on the trailer and set out again with never another wiggle on the several hundred mile trip home.
Loading has a big impact on how a trailer acts.
I hear of people moving their load off the tongue because their TV does not have the capacity, maybe not the right choice.

I have to agree with 'AlinCal'. I believe this is why the 28's tow so well. They're 'tongue' heavy. Wind from tractor-trailers don't bother mine a bit.
That and the D-Ram has load of 'stuff' like a pallet with artificial turf for the step. a couple solid blocks for wheel chocks, your everyday tiki torch. Sometimes an extra spare tire for the AS, a jack, 5 gallons drinking water
( that's 40 lbs), then 20 lbs cat litter. Maybe a bicycle or two sometimes. A extra fresh water hose.
Now the flat sided S.O.B. trailer I had before the AS, it was a sail sometimes. I carried water in its tank to help hold it down.

I let the AS help me with braking, and keep that slack tight. Until I want the 'Jake brake' to take over, then we're pretty slow at that point.
Have good equipment, no 'show-boatin', some good prayers before every trip, you should come through unscathed.
Stay safe out there !

[OTRA15]

. . . and thus yet another thread devolves into an off-topic free-for-all on WD, sway, and so forth.

[OTRA15]

Thank you Acheron2010 for starting new thread on testing for sway.

Great proactive discussion IMO!

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f42/...ay-184861.html

[matthewsx]

Towing is a learned skill, and not one that's appreciated by many otherwise educated people.


In the US there aren't any requirements for operating most recreational vehicles (like the license endorsements required for motorcycles). Maybe there should be, even boating is becoming more regulated with specific licenses required in many states.


Licensing laws in the US are a state responsibility, but, commercial drivers must also comply with federal law. Just for grins I did a search, here's what AAA has compiled.


https://drivinglaws.aaa.com/tag/trailer-towing/


Stay safe out there.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

. . . and thus yet another thread devolves into an off-topic free-for-all on WD, sway, and so forth.

Hi

So .... are you surprised that threads wander here on the forum?

Bob

[PKI]

Folks, it is a discussion. There is limited information. Consequently there are a set number of root cause possibilities and an infinite number of contributing factors. The point of a thread like this is not to solve the victim's problem. They are toast, well done and dust on the road of RV mistakes. The value is pointing out one clear message. Sway happens. At first review, from the info available, there does not seem to be a root cause, but upon closer analysis, several issues were identified.

No brake controller on the second incident left the driver with no way to slow the trailer into straight tracking.

Speed is quite likely part of the issue. What caused the sway is not known, but it is highly likely that speed was a big contributing factor. While 65 or there abouts is assumed to be safe from snaking, that speed is based on parameters that are variable by rig.

Single axle is often assumed to represent a light weight coach that can be easily controlled, but it certainly seems to be problematic. Maybe more the teeter totter weight transfer issue that produces considerable forces from end of coach loading. Maybe the inherent lack of directional stability from the single axle configuration. Maybe the limits lateral resistance of only two tire patches.

Tow vehicle may or may not be of issue. Both are rated to tow the 22. Less concern about tow capacity and more about design suitability to control sway in an excursion might be a point to discuss, but neither issue likely caused the sway.

Sway control is certainly a valid point of consideration, but with no sway control method is identified in the first accident and what is assumed to be a simple friction device is identified in the second, we are left with little to contemplate. It is possible the device was not properly adjusted in the second event. An operator who did not know to have a brake controller could be expected to get that part wrong too. And the level of sway reported was certainly not being dampened. Actually, it sounded like the sway control dampening was overwhelmed by the sway forces, which would suggest that multiple sway control units were needed or that a failure occurred, if the unit was properly adjusted.

So, lots to discuss. But we won't solve the root cause issue. Just not enough data. But we can inform the uninformed. And most important reinforce the fact that while you have no sway now, with the right conditions, you will.

Thanks for your contributions. Slow down, tune the rig and stay safe. Pat

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

. . .
So .... are you surprised that threads wander here on the forum?
. . .

Well, since you asked and this thread is already miles off-topic . . .



Am I surprised? . . . of course not, but it is ridiculous IMO!

Like lemmings to the sea . . . when in doubt type . . . think later . . . and "oh, maybe there are already hundreds of wandering threads . . . going increasingly off-topic . . . maybe I should find a thread already about sway, weight distribution, hitches, tow vehicles, etc. etc. ?"



The migration of the Internet to smaller screens and apps results in everyone just latching on to the most convenient recent thread on their screen, and typing away . . .

A sad devolution of humankind's ability to stay focused and purposeful in it's commnunications.

Rant over . . . for now!

Have a good weekend,

Peter

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

Well, since you asked and this thread is already miles off-topic . . .



Am I surprised? . . . of course not, but it is ridiculous IMO!

Like lemmings to the sea . . . when in doubt type . . . think later . . . and "oh, maybe there are already hundreds of wandering threads . . . going increasingly off-topic . . . maybe I should find a thread already about sway, weight distribution, hitches, tow vehicles, etc. etc. ?"



The migration of the Internet to smaller screens and apps results in everyone just latching on to the most convenient recent thread on their screen, and typing away . . .

A sad devolution of humankind's ability to stay focused and purposeful in it's commnunications.

Rant over . . . for now!

Have a good weekend,

Peter

Hi

Ok, so ..... how do we fix it?

A lot of forums "close" threads on a pretty regular basis. That eliminates adding info to a thread started i 2013. It also slows the tendency to wander. This one probably would not have been fixed by that approach.

Here we have the "latest threads" page that pretty much everybody uses. It's great for finding active discussions. It also encourages people to latch on to things in the middle of the thread. Nuke it and you really change the way things work here.

Getting people to think first and type later ..... good luck .... double good luck if it's after Uncle Bob's happy hour. Compared to a lot of places on the internet, this *is* a think first location. People come in here from all sorts of other places.

Repeating this or that a billion times? Yup, we most certainly do that. Some forums put up a sort of FAQ area to slow that down. From what I've seen, even with it you need a "police force" to make it work. Yes search can help, but you get a mighty wide set of results to dig through.

That runs me out of ideas ....

Bob

[boondockdad]

There used to be a regular contributor that would post links to all the existing threads when some lazy member (like myself) would start a new one

Sometimes there’d be almost a dozen redudant threads

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

. . .
Ok, so ..... how do we fix it?

From this site's Community Rules [link at the bottom of every page]:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/misc...ork&page=rules

"Public discussion about moderation or moderator decisions is not allowed."

[AlinCal]

Imagine where we would be with no room monitor?

[Nesty19]

I’ve been thinking about this photo since first seeing it here... and I cannot stop thinking about the couple we met on our first night’s excursion with our AS in Virginia. My pre-teen daughter had been complaining about our next day’s long haul, and they replied that they let their teenaged son sleep in their Airstream whilst being towed. Even as newbies our jaws were dropped...

Also of note... after driving the Moki Dugway in Utah and being completely rattled (with NO tow vehicle because that would be insane), we googled the most dangerous roads in the world. The original post here says this accident (with the pic I can’t get out of my mind) happened on I-15, which was listed in every single top 10 list.

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by boondockdad

So, who’s worse?
This poor slobs dealer sending them out without a BC, or the dealer who jerry-rigs a Class III receiver onto a front wheel drive sedan then hooks it up to a 10,000 pound 31’ Airstream?

It’d be guys like you who haven’t a clue of how a WD hitch works.

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by J. Morgan

And,,,,, I’m calling BS on the “conventional wisdom” of trying to “accelerate out of a sway event”. Thats bad advise that likely contributed to the accident. When a trailer starts swaying, slow the freak down.

The rig needs to slow, but it’s the TT that must provide the slowing. The TV MUST be under full throttle with simultaneous maximum TT brake application. (The one-two moment it works or doesn’t as you wonder why you didn’t spring for anti-lock trailer disc brakes).

If you hit the TV brakes, you’ve freed the TT to maximize its swing. Distance, and rapidity. (Buh-bye)

Belt & Suspenders is a Hensley-patent hitch and the TUSON trailer-mounted electronic anti-sway. Reacts faster than TV mounted ones. See Andy’s review.

(And why did you think big trucks have a trolley brake? Same reason).

Sway is not some chaotic event. It can be modeled. Easily. It is traveling faster than the TV. (Howsabout that cute name now the bitch is trying to pass? And yanks that pickup drive axle loose from its’ insufficient grip. First one side, then the other. A live axle can’t keep up)

Poor lady didn’t know her baby “had to go”. That potty dance didn’t end well.

.