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Old 10-01-2016, 10:46 AM   #71
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Arrow Official optional equipment weight numbers

[QUOTE=SCOTTinNJ;1858597]
2660 lbs minus 200 for seats and 400 for a roof gets you around 2000 lbs which is what is reported for F-250 diesels.
/QUOTE]

Not sure where you are getting weight estimates. 400 lbs for a moon roof???

For 2016 Super Duty:
Moon roof, Power Slide (20/36) (front axle weight / total weight)
There is a 0 delta on weight for leather vs standard seats.

This site has links to lots of useful info for multiple model years. I don't see optional equipment weights for 2017 yet. I suspect you can use the numbers from 2016 to get good estimates, see the 2016 Truck Payload Workbook,


https://www.fleet.ford.com/TRUCKBBAS.../techspec.html
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Old 10-01-2016, 12:02 PM   #72
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[QUOTE=SailorSam205;1858897]
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTTinNJ View Post
2660 lbs minus 200 for seats and 400 for a roof gets you around 2000 lbs which is what is reported for F-250 diesels.
/QUOTE]

Not sure where you are getting weight estimates. 400 lbs for a moon roof???

For 2016 Super Duty:
Moon roof, Power Slide (20/36) (front axle weight / total weight)
There is a 0 delta on weight for leather vs standard seats.

This site has links to lots of useful info for multiple model years. I don't see optional equipment weights for 2017 yet. I suspect you can use the numbers from 2016 to get good estimates, see the 2016 Truck Payload Workbook,


https://www.fleet.ford.com/TRUCKBBAS.../techspec.html
I had read that somewhere and it's obviously wrong. Here are the actual option numbers.

https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas...load_SB_v5.pdf

Still doesn't change the fact that this is an actual sticker from a 2017 Lariat as posted by THEPILL.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...ml#post1850357

Based on the GAWR front and rear, it does look like that is artificially low.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...ml#post1850341
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Old 10-01-2016, 12:25 PM   #73
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When trailering, use axle ratings (GAWR) and weights from a CAT Scale for safety. Payload is a variable (using fuel among other things changes it) number derived from GVWR and who knows where that arbitrary number comes from, engineers, marketing, tax accountants, maybe all of them.

Weighing the loaded combo on a CAT Scale will tell you if an axle is overloaded, and it may well be, or the front axle too light for good braking and handling, but the truck may still be under GVWR.

This is not too quarrel with someone who wants to follow all the numbers, or even less than the numbers, just to understand there's more to safe trailering weights than adding up for payload (GVWR). And often this addition is unaware of the benefits of a good and properly set up weight distribution hitch.

Sorry, I have no internet source for this, just my experience at the CAT Scales and towing our Airstream, as well as overloading the rear axle of our truck without the Airstream and feeling how unstable that was.
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Old 10-01-2016, 02:33 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by SCOTTinNJ View Post
Look at page 3 of the link Mgieselman posted. 3,450 is for the 6.2L engine. The diesel is a full 600 lbs less at 2660 lbs.

And if you think the Lariat is 200 lbs different than the XLT you are kidding yourself. The leather seats might be 200 lbs. I've heard that the sunroof is 400 lbs.

2660 lbs minus 200 for seats and 400 for a roof gets you around 2000 lbs which is what is reported for F-250 diesels.

Time will tell. Let's see when you get your truck. As I said previously, don't start buying accessories. I think your dealer will be buying it back.
I will be doing some investigating today. The dealer just got in an identical truck to what we ordered in black so I can take pictures of the door sticker.
There seems to be a disconnect between the Ford Site published specs, the build spec information attached here and the door stickers. I may have to eat some humble pie. (Won't be the first time nor the last I am sure)
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Old 10-01-2016, 04:36 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by franklyfrank View Post
I will be doing some investigating today. The dealer just got in an identical truck to what we ordered in black so I can take pictures of the door sticker.
There seems to be a disconnect between the Ford Site published specs, the build spec information attached here and the door stickers. I may have to eat some humble pie. (Won't be the first time nor the last I am sure)
Looking forward to the results. I hope I'm wrong (wouldn't be the first or last time for me either!)
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Old 10-01-2016, 04:41 PM   #76
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I've been considering selling a 1999 F250 SD SC 4x4 V8 manual with tow/camper pkg and also a 2010 Tacoma 4cyl daily driver. I've been researching whether I could consolidate functions into a 2017 F150 Ecoboost. I tow a 1971 23' Safari (max weight 5,200#) and, at times, carry an aluminum pop-up truck camper weighing in at 1,600 lbs when loaded up. The camper would not be on the truck when towing the trailer. I had a dealer e-mail me build sheets for a 2017 F150 4x4 XLT w/3.5L Ecoboost with the Heavy-Duty Payload and Max tow packages for both the Supercab w/8ft box and a Crew Cab with the 6.5ft box. GVWR for both configurations is 7,850 lbs.

I found this on the web;

"The Heavy-Duty Payload Package increases the truck's payload and towing capabilities with an eight-foot cargo box, upgraded springs, tires, and wheels, as well as a heavier duty leaf supension. The package is available for the regular cab or extended cab (SuperCab) models equipped with the 5.0-liter V-8 or 3.5-liter EcoBoost V-6.
The package increases the truck's GVWR to 7,600 pounds for the XL trim and 7,850 pounds for the XLT and Lariat trim models. The package is paired with the Max Trailer Tow Package on the EcoBoost and the Trailer Tow Package on the V-8. The Heavy-Duty Payload Package retails for $1,500.
The package increases payload to 3,300 pounds for the V-8 and 2,900 pounds for the EcoBoost. Without the package, the EcoBoost truck has a maximum payload of 2,230 pounds. Trailering capability for a SuperCab with the EcoBoost would increase to 11,800 pounds from 10,700, said Mike Levine, Ford's truck communications manager.
The upgrade is designed for commercial users in the construction, landscape, and automotive parts industries, Levine said.
The heavy payload package includes five LT245/70R17E BSW A/T tires for the XL; five LT275/65R18C OWL A/T tires for the XLT or Lariat; 17-inch silver steel heavy-duty wheels for the XL; 18-inch silver aluminum heavy-duty wheels for the XLT or Lariat; upgraded springs and auxiliary transmission oil cooler; and a 9.75-inch gear set with 3.73 electronic-locking slip axle.
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Old 10-01-2016, 04:44 PM   #77
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That Canadian dealer has two 2017's on the site. Both the same.

XLT SuperCrew with 6.2L - 3142 lbs payload

http://www.hannafords.ca/used/Ford/2...cd000f4a0c.htm

The diesel is 790 lbs less right off the bat, so 2352 payload minus whatever options go in above the XLT trim.

For completeness, this is the sticker on the truck.

http://windowsticker.forddirect.com/...7c8c06628dd296

It does include snow plow package and 5th wheel hitch, among other items that probably add significant weight. So maybe a smartly chosen Lariat will be similar or even better.
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Old 10-02-2016, 09:39 AM   #78
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[QUOTE=SailorSam205;1858897]
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTTinNJ View Post
2660 lbs minus 200 for seats and 400 for a roof gets you around 2000 lbs which is what is reported for F-250 diesels.
/QUOTE]

Not sure where you are getting weight estimates. 400 lbs for a moon roof???

For 2016 Super Duty:
Moon roof, Power Slide (20/36) (front axle weight / total weight)
There is a 0 delta on weight for leather vs standard seats.

This site has links to lots of useful info for multiple model years. I don't see optional equipment weights for 2017 yet. I suspect you can use the numbers from 2016 to get good estimates, see the 2016 Truck Payload Workbook,


https://www.fleet.ford.com/TRUCKBBAS.../techspec.html

Thank you very much for posting this link.
It is awesome, it explains in great detail how Ford and I presume the others spec their vehicles. It basically clears up the discussion on this thread. What an education I received, and I have to admit that I have been wrong in my interpretation of the basic Ford Specs that you can find on line.
So I am eating my humble pie.
The disturbing fact is that the dealership sales staff has no clue. You would think a dealership would have at least on sales person trained to sell trucks.

I also have a better understanding of the difference between the F-150 and F-250. The issue isn't so much of power because surely the 6.7 diesel is somewhat of an overkill but as has been repeatedly stated the 1000 lbs tongue weight of a 30' Air stream doesn't leave much margin of safety on a F-150.
Air stream sales should be able to better advise buyers as well on this issue.
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Old 10-02-2016, 11:49 AM   #79
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You nailed the problem. Most salespeople are uninformed at best. You have to educate yourself and they don't necessarily make that easy.
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Old 10-03-2016, 08:33 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTTinNJ View Post
You nailed the problem. Most salespeople are uninformed at best. You have to educate yourself and they don't necessarily make that easy.

Yes!
What got my attention was how evasive the salesman got when I pressed him on the payload issue. He gave me the numbers Ford publishes on their open website which I knew.
All they need to do is add a column showing the Reserve Weight number for Factory and Owner add on equipment and indicate the potential NET Payload. Distilling all the information in the Build Spec Info makes me believe that the Payload number on he door stickers is conservative.
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Old 10-28-2016, 07:56 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by TGK View Post
I've been considering selling a 1999 F250 SD SC 4x4 V8 manual with tow/camper pkg and also a 2010 Tacoma 4cyl daily driver. I've been researching whether I could consolidate functions into a 2017 F150 Ecoboost. I tow a 1971 23' Safari (max weight 5,200#) and, at times, carry an aluminum pop-up truck camper weighing in at 1,600 lbs when loaded up. The camper would not be on the truck when towing the trailer. I had a dealer e-mail me build sheets for a 2017 F150 4x4 XLT w/3.5L Ecoboost with the Heavy-Duty Payload and Max tow packages for both the Supercab w/8ft box and a Crew Cab with the 6.5ft box. GVWR for both configurations is 7,850 lbs.

I found this on the web;

"The Heavy-Duty Payload Package increases the truck's payload and towing capabilities with an eight-foot cargo box, upgraded springs, tires, and wheels, as well as a heavier duty leaf supension. The package is available for the regular cab or extended cab (SuperCab) models equipped with the 5.0-liter V-8 or 3.5-liter EcoBoost V-6.
The package increases the truck's GVWR to 7,600 pounds for the XL trim and 7,850 pounds for the XLT and Lariat trim models. The package is paired with the Max Trailer Tow Package on the EcoBoost and the Trailer Tow Package on the V-8. The Heavy-Duty Payload Package retails for $1,500.
The package increases payload to 3,300 pounds for the V-8 and 2,900 pounds for the EcoBoost. Without the package, the EcoBoost truck has a maximum payload of 2,230 pounds. Trailering capability for a SuperCab with the EcoBoost would increase to 11,800 pounds from 10,700, said Mike Levine, Ford's truck communications manager.
The upgrade is designed for commercial users in the construction, landscape, and automotive parts industries, Levine said.
The heavy payload package includes five LT245/70R17E BSW A/T tires for the XL; five LT275/65R18C OWL A/T tires for the XLT or Lariat; 17-inch silver steel heavy-duty wheels for the XL; 18-inch silver aluminum heavy-duty wheels for the XLT or Lariat; upgraded springs and auxiliary transmission oil cooler; and a 9.75-inch gear set with 3.73 electronic-locking slip axle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TGK View Post
I've been considering selling a 1999 F250 SD SC 4x4 V8 manual with tow/camper pkg and also a 2010 Tacoma 4cyl daily driver. I've been researching whether I could consolidate functions into a 2017 F150 Ecoboost. I tow a 1971 23' Safari (max weight 5,200#) and, at times, carry an aluminum pop-up truck camper weighing in at 1,600 lbs when loaded up. The camper would not be on the truck when towing the trailer. I had a dealer e-mail me build sheets for a 2017 F150 4x4 XLT w/3.5L Ecoboost with the Heavy-Duty Payload and Max tow packages for both the Supercab w/8ft box and a Crew Cab with the 6.5ft box. GVWR for both configurations is 7,850 lbs.

I found this on the web;

"The Heavy-Duty Payload Package increases the truck's payload and towing capabilities with an eight-foot cargo box, upgraded springs, tires, and wheels, as well as a heavier duty leaf supension. The package is available for the regular cab or extended cab (SuperCab) models equipped with the 5.0-liter V-8 or 3.5-liter EcoBoost V-6.
The package increases the truck's GVWR to 7,600 pounds for the XL trim and 7,850 pounds for the XLT and Lariat trim models. The package is paired with the Max Trailer Tow Package on the EcoBoost and the Trailer Tow Package on the V-8. The Heavy-Duty Payload Package retails for $1,500.
The package increases payload to 3,300 pounds for the V-8 and 2,900 pounds for the EcoBoost. Without the package, the EcoBoost truck has a maximum payload of 2,230 pounds. Trailering capability for a SuperCab with the EcoBoost would increase to 11,800 pounds from 10,700, said Mike Levine, Ford's truck communications manager.
The upgrade is designed for commercial users in the construction, landscape, and automotive parts industries, Levine said.
The heavy payload package includes five LT245/70R17E BSW A/T tires for the XL; five LT275/65R18C OWL A/T tires for the XLT or Lariat; 17-inch silver steel heavy-duty wheels for the XL; 18-inch silver aluminum heavy-duty wheels for the XLT or Lariat; upgraded springs and auxiliary transmission oil cooler; and a 9.75-inch gear set with 3.73 electronic-locking slip axle.
Hey TGK,
After racking my brain on these forums and elsewhere trying to decide on what truck to get, I just picked up a 2016 F150 XLT with the HD Payload package. It's a Supercrew with a 6.5' bed, 3.5EB, 3.73 rear, Max Tow, FX4, and a bunch of other goodies. It's a "truck", but is still rather comfortable (Sync 3 has a well designed UI). Most importantly, the payload sticker is 2,415 lbs.

I was tempted by an F250 diesel, but the Lariats I looked at had payloads just above 2k(I didn't look at any of the 2017s yet). Plus my mechanic friends cringed when I mentioned the prospect of owning a modern diesel. I drove a bunch of older models as well and looked at some newer non-HD F150s (real-world payloads between 1600 and 1850). The HD Payload F150 just seemed like a more practical option, and the year-end discounts were very tempting. My fiance and I only have 1 vehicle, and we bike or walk wherever we can locally. When we drive, we tend to tack on a bunch of miles at once. So we needed something that could strike a balance between burly and practical.

We haven't towed with it yet, but it seems like a pretty sweet vehicle. I will certainly post up when we put more miles on it.

Oh, the point I wanted to make to you was around this HD Payload option. In my experience, this thing is a bit of a unicorn. I had not seen one in person until I found the one we ended up buying. I have heard of people ordering them and they never get built....very few were made in 2015, and they didn't make them until the later half of 2016 (from what I've read). I stumbled upon mine by searching dealers on the Ford website, and looking at every window sticker for F150s with 3.5EB and 6.5' beds. When I found it, it wasn't even being built yet, it was just ordered. The salespeople were very skeptical if it would even show up, but it eventually did so I grabbed it. Just a warning, you could be waiting a while for it.

And as far as payload numbers go, anything you see in marketing materials, or "truck builder" apps is total bull. Real world numbers are nowhere near that high. And I haven't talked to one salesperson that understands what payload even is. Check out the link that SCOTTinNJ posted and do the math.

Good luck in your quest!
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Old 10-29-2016, 08:42 AM   #82
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2017 f150 vs 250 towing vehicle

That unicorn F150 looks totally awesome spec wise. We have the same truck in a 2015 4wd without HD and have 1907 payload. That HD is the bomb! If I ordered one it would be built just like yours.

Congratulations and many happy towing miles ahead!


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Old 10-29-2016, 09:24 AM   #83
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Hey TGK,
After racking my brain on these forums and elsewhere trying to decide on what truck to get, I just picked up a 2016 F150 XLT with the HD Payload package. It's a Supercrew with a 6.5' bed, 3.5EB, 3.73 rear, Max Tow, FX4, and a bunch of other goodies. It's a "truck", but is still rather comfortable (Sync 3 has a well designed UI). Most importantly, the payload sticker is 2,415 lbs.

I was tempted by an F250 diesel, but the Lariats I looked at had payloads just above 2k(I didn't look at any of the 2017s yet). Plus my mechanic friends cringed when I mentioned the prospect of owning a modern diesel. I drove a bunch of older models as well and looked at some newer non-HD F150s (real-world payloads between 1600 and 1850). The HD Payload F150 just seemed like a more practical option, and the year-end discounts were very tempting. My fiance and I only have 1 vehicle, and we bike or walk wherever we can locally. When we drive, we tend to tack on a bunch of miles at once. So we needed something that could strike a balance between burly and practical.

We haven't towed with it yet, but it seems like a pretty sweet vehicle. I will certainly post up when we put more miles on it.

Oh, the point I wanted to make to you was around this HD Payload option. In my experience, this thing is a bit of a unicorn. I had not seen one in person until I found the one we ended up buying. I have heard of people ordering them and they never get built....very few were made in 2015, and they didn't make them until the later half of 2016 (from what I've read). I stumbled upon mine by searching dealers on the Ford website, and looking at every window sticker for F150s with 3.5EB and 6.5' beds. When I found it, it wasn't even being built yet, it was just ordered. The salespeople were very skeptical if it would even show up, but it eventually did so I grabbed it. Just a warning, you could be waiting a while for it.

And as far as payload numbers go, anything you see in marketing materials, or "truck builder" apps is total bull. Real world numbers are nowhere near that high. And I haven't talked to one salesperson that understands what payload even is. Check out the link that SCOTTinNJ posted and do the math.

Good luck in your quest!

I have a similar story.
I wanted a Regular cab 8' bed for my motorcycle. Max Tow , max payload XLT with some bells . A dealer found one for me that someone special ordered a 2016 and did not take it . Got great deal .
Door sticker for the payload is 2945 !
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Old 10-29-2016, 10:05 AM   #84
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Was surprised to see that the 10 speed is offered on 2017s . Knew it was in the pipeline, but expected the introduction to take another year. Also interested to hear the 2017 3/4 has a boxed frame with a remarkable number of welds used to increase chassis stiffness. Pat
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