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Old 09-27-2016, 09:24 AM   #43
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...I would never consider GM especially since the bailout....
I don't understand this GM bashing. All the major banks were bailed out too. Just curious, do you also not do business with them? Did you cancel all your credit cards, bank accounts, home loans, etc because they were bailed out? I'd rather bail out a company like GM that creates manufacturing jobs (something this country desperately needs), than a financial company that was responsible for the recession.
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Old 09-27-2016, 10:00 AM   #44
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Re payload on my 2017 F-250 Diesel, I told the dealer if it is anything less than 3,000 lbs I want my deposit back and he owns the truck. I had him verify the numbers several time during the transaction.
If all I can get is 2,000 lbs on a F-250 Diesel I might as well stay with a 2017 F-150 Ecoboost and the new 10 Speed trans. That will get me 2060 lbs payload in a fully loaded Platinum.
I wouldn't start buying accessories for that F-250 just yet...
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Old 09-27-2016, 10:30 AM   #45
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No 3/4 ton truck is going to have a 3000 lb payload because all 3/4 tons have their GVWR artificially set to 10,000 lbs to avoid taxes in some states on class 3 vehicles. If you check the axle ratings you will see that most 3/4 tons have GAWR's not much different than 1 ton SRW trucks.

My Ram 2500 is an example - I weighed it last week on the way to KY and while it was just under the GVWR(without my wife or dog), it was 1000 lbs under the front GAWR and 1500 lbs under the rear GAWR with the trailer hitched up. In the case of current RAM diesels, the 2500 & 3500 have identical frames & front axles and the rear axle rating on SRW 3500's is only 500 lbs higher, yet the GVWR and payload is almost 2000 lbs higher. The GCWR is the same too I believe.

While I believe the GAWR on the 17 F250 is a bit less than the RAM, it also has a low-balled GVWR to qualify as a class 2b truck for tax purposes.



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Old 09-27-2016, 10:54 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Steamy1 View Post
Our 2010 Tundra is comfortable with Toyota reliability, but on our recent Canadian trip of almost 4,000 miles, I weighed the 23FB and Tundra at a Idaho State scale, and was shocked to discovered we were 400 pounds over the GVWR. We have a SnugTop Topper, but the back was not packed full, only carrying what you would expect on a trip, e.g., Weber BBQ, small folding table, 18 gal blue boy, Honda i2000, two folding chairs, and a few tools. The trailer weight was 5300 (Gross is 6000), with about 20 gallons of water, and waste tanks empty.

I am now looking at a 3/4 ton truck, either the new F-250, or the GMC 2500 for the payload capacity. I am leaning towards gas, since the complexity of the diesel is concerning.

The Tundra is terrific, but the payload is too limiting. Our Tundra has less than 50,000 miles and is the most comfortable vehicle we have owned. I do not relish the thought of selling it, but we just cannot be over gross, even though it has LRE tires and Sumo suspension supports.

I love my Tundra so much I will just deal with its shortfalls.
The truck cap itself robs payload.
There is no way I could sell it.
I am towing a 30'.


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Old 09-28-2016, 09:36 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by khollister View Post
No 3/4 ton truck is going to have a 3000 lb payload because all 3/4 tons have their GVWR artificially set to 10,000 lbs to avoid taxes in some states on class 3 vehicles. If you check the axle ratings you will see that most 3/4 tons have GAWR's not much different than 1 ton SRW trucks.

My Ram 2500 is an example - I weighed it last week on the way to KY and while it was just under the GVWR(without my wife or dog), it was 1000 lbs under the front GAWR and 1500 lbs under the rear GAWR with the trailer hitched up. In the case of current RAM diesels, the 2500 & 3500 have identical frames & front axles and the rear axle rating on SRW 3500's is only 500 lbs higher, yet the GVWR and payload is almost 2000 lbs higher. The GCWR is the same too I believe.

While I believe the GAWR on the 17 F250 is a bit less than the RAM, it also has a low-balled GVWR to qualify as a class 2b truck for tax purposes.



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Just to give it equal time I test drove a 2017 Ram 2500 Laramie with the Cummins diesel. It was a rather nice truck and I actually liked it. Until the salesman printed out the spec sheet which listed the payload at 1,990 LBS.
You can get a 2017 Fully loaded F-150 with a payload of 2,060 lbs.
Needless to say I moved on.
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Old 09-28-2016, 09:45 AM   #48
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I don't understand this GM bashing. All the major banks were bailed out too. Just curious, do you also not do business with them? Did you cancel all your credit cards, bank accounts, home loans, etc because they were bailed out? I'd rather bail out a company like GM that creates manufacturing jobs (something this country desperately needs), than a financial company that was responsible for the recession.
My uncle who was a simple baker, over the years invested his retirement funds in GM stock. He retired 4 years prior to the GM bailout. Needless to say he lost it all. Obama was all to happy to stick it the fat cat big shot investors while making the union whole and handing them a good chunk of GM.
GM management had ample time to make adjustments during their decline to get competitive however they were prevented by the union to do so and they ended up with the goodies. I don't agree with any bailouts. When industries can factor that into their business plan they become sclerotic and makes us all weaker competitors.
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Old 09-28-2016, 11:00 AM   #49
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Ford has updated it's website with the 2017 F-250 payload figures:

http://www.ford.com/trucks/superduty...tions/payload/

maximum payload for a F-250 4x2 is 3,650 with GVWR of 10K however depending on vehicle options you may have less.
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Old 09-28-2016, 11:43 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by MelGoddard View Post
I tow a 30' FC with a 2015 F-150, 3.5 Ecoboost, 3.55 final drive, max tow package, The Cloud averages about 7800-8000 lbs loaded, (two people). the Ford is rated for 12,800 tow wt., and the whole package is rated at 14, 200 lbs. I have weighed it at 12,200+/- a little. So definately not near max.
The Ford handles the FC quite well with a Husky Ezy-tow hitch, and friction sway bars.
(I was very disappointed with the performance of a Reese Dual Cam hitch, and have the complete assy. for sale.
Tomorrow, Friday, I'm hitting the road again, with a very comfortable trailer.
The direct injection is ancient technology, used by the Germans in WW2, and have finally come into it's own here, c'w turbocharging..
This configuration is as good as it gets.
A conversation on max rarely has anything to do with combined or maximum tow rating. It nearly always comes down to gross vehicle weight rating which is really payload.
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Old 09-28-2016, 12:40 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Mgieselman View Post
Ford has updated it's website with the 2017 F-250 payload figures:



http://www.ford.com/trucks/superduty...tions/payload/



maximum payload for a F-250 4x2 is 3,650 with GVWR of 10K however depending on vehicle options you may have less.

There is another thread here where someone just took delivery of a 2017 F250 4x4 diesel and photographed the payload sticker - it was 2100 lbs and change as I recall. Even allowing for the weight of the diesel, this doesn't add up.


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Old 09-29-2016, 09:22 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by khollister View Post
There is another thread here where someone just took delivery of a 2017 F250 4x4 diesel and photographed the payload sticker - it was 2100 lbs and change as I recall. Even allowing for the weight of the diesel, this doesn't add up.


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Why invest in a F-250 Diesel if it has a 2,100 payload ? You can get a 2017 F -150 Ecoboost with the same payload. I agree something doesn't add up.
I have researched the payload issue on the 2017 F-250 before ordering ours and even the lowest number is over 3,000 lbs. So I have hard time believing that that picture is of a F-250 door panel.
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Old 09-29-2016, 10:15 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by franklyfrank View Post
Why invest in a F-250 Diesel if it has a 2,100 payload ? You can get a 2017 F -150 Ecoboost with the same payload. I agree something doesn't add up.
I have researched the payload issue on the 2017 F-250 before ordering ours and even the lowest number is over 3,000 lbs. So I have hard time believing that that picture is of a F-250 door panel.

The payload numbers published in the Ford charts are for a sparsely equipped truck with a gasoline engine. For a crew cab, 4x4, standard box the payload is about 3400 lbs. From there available payload goes down with the more options that are added to the truck.

I don't have the exact numbers for Ford, but for Ram the diesel engine decreases available payload by 860 lbs. Add some other things like running boards, bed liner, moonroof, skid plates, etc., and you can see how the available payload on the finished F-250 is around 2200 lbs. That number is what you see on the door of the truck. It is specific to that truck with those options.

The same holds true for the F-150. The more options that are added on over the base model, the lower the available payload.

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Old 09-29-2016, 10:17 AM   #54
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Looking at the linked specs table, the base curb weight of a 2017 F250 diesel 4x4 is 7264 lbs (short bed crew cab). Add 150 lbs for a driver ( which I believe is accounted for in payload ratings) and some unknown amount of weight for all of the options/trim of a Lariat or King Ranch vs a base model work truck, and I can start to see where a 2100/2200 payload makes sense. With the gas power plant, you would be several hundred pounds ahead.

My point is not some Ford vs RAM vs GM thing, but that any 3/4 ton diesel 4x4 luxury truck is not going to have an impressive payload sticker due to the artificial GVWR which is assigned due to tax concerns. With RAM there is even an option to order an identical truck labeled as 9800 GVWR instead of 10,000 for the same reason.

The actual capability of these trucks, based on GAWR, is much greater than the GVWR indicates. And I have had several professional drivers tell me that the axle weights are what the state and fed DOT's care about, not GVWR.




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Old 09-29-2016, 12:15 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by khollister View Post
There is another thread here where someone just took delivery of a 2017 F250 4x4 diesel and photographed the payload sticker - it was 2100 lbs and change as I recall. Even allowing for the weight of the diesel, this doesn't add up.
I think that sticker is probably right if it's a loaded F-250, based off of this:

https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas...eries_v1-0.pdf

a base F-250 4x4 Diesel short bed has a payload capacity of 2,660. Add all the options and I could totally believe it goes down to 2,100. A RAM 2500 Limited has a max payload of 2,170 and max towing of 16,900.

By the number they are the the same more or less in the towing/payload department.

A F-150 Platinum 3.5L EcoBoost has a 2,060 max payload and 10,700 towing. Kind of hard to make the case for the F-250 when towing an Airstream, IMHO.
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Old 09-29-2016, 12:42 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Mgieselman View Post
A F-150 Platinum 3.5L EcoBoost has a 2,060 max payload and 10,700 towing. Kind of hard to make the case for the F-250 when towing an Airstream, IMHO.
Is that with Max Tow and Max Payload? The numbers I've seen for a Platinum have been less, but may not have had the max tow/payload.

In my experience, guys who want a diesel, need a diesel. But I agree, and have been enjoying my ecoboost.
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