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Old 01-19-2003, 08:37 AM   #29
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Update

Big J,

What TV did you decide on?

AC/DC or 27" with an inverter?

John
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Old 01-19-2003, 08:51 AM   #30
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to big?

john

i'm leaning tward this.

12 volt tv

just gotta see if it will fit.

john
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Old 01-19-2003, 09:01 AM   #31
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John,

1st I didn't know that there was a 20" ac/dc TV. Cool!

Prior to buying my 13" ac/dc, I had a 19"AC TV and one upper corner stuck into the wall/ceiling and the other side hung off the edge.

Mac
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Old 01-19-2003, 09:20 AM   #32
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maybe bigger

john

i may be able to go even larger, they have even bigger sets on that site.

here is why.
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Old 01-19-2003, 12:15 PM   #33
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I don't believe the appliances on this site are that way from the manufacturers, who don't offer them elsewhere. I believe the folks at this site take them take them apart and modify them, which could be something as simple as putting a small inverter in them. If that's the case, I'd rather get the 120V version just use an external inverter.
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Old 01-19-2003, 01:40 PM   #34
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Talking I'm jealous

John,

My TV sits on top of the microwave/pantry/drawers combo and I don't have that amount room available.

Want to trade ?

Mac
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Old 01-19-2003, 02:15 PM   #35
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hey moe,

i thought that too! that is why i'm not sold yet.

if you had seperate components, and one failed you could just replace the tv or the inverter. as you can see in the pic i have plenty of room to stash the inverter underneath the tv. all that is in there is the vcr and a few tapes.

hey john,

first the truck, and now the trailer! your trailer is newer!

john
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Old 01-19-2003, 02:23 PM   #36
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Thumbs up My set-up!

John,

I'm totally happy with my set-up, truck & trailer, I'm just a little jealous of your truck's capacity & the room inside your trailer for the larger TV.

Just sharing that off-beat humor !

Mac
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Old 06-18-2003, 12:21 AM   #37
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Run on 12V too?

Sorry guys, I'm new to this. After reading all the above, I've come to the conclusion that my boys can watch a DVD or play PS2 while I'm driving, without having to turn the generator on!!! I've been having trouble keeping the 110V going while driving...the Onan 4.0 keeps kicking off. So I see now that I can get a (converter or inverter, what's the difference?) and be able to maintain 110V for the 13" Hitachi color TV/VCR/hooked up to PS2 DVD player/game player, all on the 12V coach batts!!! That's great! How can I get one?
You guys are great with all your info, although sometimes my eyes cross when I read real technical stuff, especially from you electrician dudes doing things parallel or series and all. And don't even ask me about univolt stuff...I need to study that first. LOL
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Old 06-18-2003, 09:41 AM   #38
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Hi John, we recently purchased a ac/dc 13" tv with a dvd player. Besides being a dvd player,it also plays cd's,mp3's,and photo cd's.Also comes with a full function remote.So far were happy with it. Its an off brand Audiologic,that we found on e-bay,but for $209.00 to my door,I'm not complaining!
You can spend a small fortune on tv's that are ac/dc, but for recreational use I'll stay conservative.
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Old 06-18-2003, 01:34 PM   #39
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For only a little more money

Okay, am I the only one that has gone down the LCD path? Space in my '02, 19' Bambi is at a premium and an LCD seemed the only logical choice. I did a lot of research and found a high quality unit at a reasonable price (I am a EE, so I do know how to research and judge electronics). I found my unit (Cornea Systems model CT1702T) at ecost.com for just over $500...now the price is just under $500. It is made by an Australian company with a US distributer. This unit is really packed with features. It is a 17" viewable( about the same as a 19" CRT), full 1280X1024X16.7M color resolution LCD. Keep in mind that NTSC is about equal to 600X450 (even DVDs). It includes a full NTSC & PAL tuner. It has inputs for cable, antenna, s-video, composite, SXVGA(computer) and DVI. It also has stereo audio outputs so that you can connect it to a separate audio system (it does have speakers, but they are small). It is NATIVE 12V and infact requires an included 120V to 12V converter to run on AC. It did not include a 12V power cord, but a stop by Radio Shack solved that issue as the power input is a std type connector. The unit has a retracting stand so that it can free stand, or it can be mounted using the included VESA mounting capability. As space was an issue, I chose to purchase a fully articulating VESA arm (not cheap...$300), since we wanted to be able to hold the TV completely above the shelf above the refrig and to adjust it to any angle as well as swing it to the bed area or the front of the A/S. The quality of the image is of course dependent on the source of the signal. When we are near good over the air (OTA) signals, the std A/S Winegard antenna (with amp) provides an excellent picture. As OTA is not always an option, I also purchased a 12V native DVD player (Blaupunk DVD-ME1 under $200). With this as a signal source, the picture quality is outstanding. As both the DVD player and the TV handle PAL as well as NTSC, I can set both to PAL and get a slightly higher resolution picture and yes can see the difference.

Compared to other LCD TV on the market, this one benefits from the mindset in Australia that LCDs are the norm, not the luxury item and therefore higher production, lower cost. The actual LCD panels have fallen in price to really compete with CRTs, but most manufacturers are milking the perception that LCD are more expensive to the hilt here in the US (Panasonic for one).

I did consider the widescreen LCD units, but the cost was so much higher. I am watching the HD/satellite settop box market closely as the DVI input on the set may yet give me a way to connect this unit to a HD receiver for the future as it can display HD signals via the the DVI input. (this would also allow me to tune ATSC OTA signals which are become more and more commonplace)

So we have a pretty nice video setup, but now I need to do some serious upgrading to that lackluster Sony stereo system that A/S installs...

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Old 06-18-2003, 06:40 PM   #40
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We'll probably wind up with LCD, but not now. IMHO, this is not the the time to be spending a lot of money on video equipment. Even though 95% of viewing material available today is still 4:3 NTSC, we're only about 3 years from the mandated shut-off of analog NTSC broadcasting, leaving only digital ATSC broadcasting.

Now I know that just because the broadcast is ATSC doesn't mean that it will be 16:9 480p (Fox Widescreen), or 720p or 1080i (HDTV) ATSC formats. The old 4:3 480i format is one of the MANY ATSC formats. There is MUCH more video equipment out there, including cameras, that are 480i and have not been replaced by widescreen versions. Broadcasters will continue to show 4:3 480i for several years, just transmitting it digital vs analog. And those with 4:3 analog NTSC TVs will be able to buy ATSC tuners that downconvert 16:9 HDTV broadcasts to the 360 (or less) lines you seen on an NTSC TV when watching widescreen DVDs. So the good news is that what you see shouldn't be any worse then than what you watch now.

The bottomline is that if you want HDTV compatibility in the future, the monitor must be at least 1280 pixels wide (for 720p). If it's a widescreen monitor, it'll have 10/16 as many pixels high as it does wide, and if it's not, it'll have 3/4 as many vertical pixels as horizontal. But that's not all.

Your best hope is to buy a monitor that has analog component video (YPbPr) that supports more than 480p capability (not all component does). DVI on computer monitors doesn't have the High Definition Copy Protection (HDCP) that DVI outputs on the latest HDTV ATSC and satellite tuners, and D-VHS players (not to mention HD-DVD players if it ever gets here) output. Non-HDCP DVI is the only connection that the recommendations of the Broadcast Protection Working Group require to be downconverted to NTSC quality to prevent piracy.

The movie industry is still concerned about the "analog loophole." With the exception of Firewire inputs on some manufacturers HDTVs, most all HDTVs sold to date have no digital input for HDTV, only analog component. It would be political suicide to require these to be downconverted and obsolete almost every HDTV in use today.

Now I know that HDCP encryption was cracked before it was even operational, so maybe there will be black market boxes that can decode it. But they're going to have to deal with a very high data rate. That's one of the reasons Hollywood wanted DVI. It takes MPEG2 compressed HDTV, at 14-15 MB/sec for satellite, 19 MB/sec for broadcast, 24 MB/sec for D-VHS, and 36MB/sec for blue-ray HD-DVD, and expands it into GB/sec.

DVI proponents brag about the higher bandwidth over Firewire. What they don't see is that ALL HDTV is highly compressed at the source. The data rates required are listed above. Even Firewire 400 (IEEE1394a) can carry 20 or more channels of compressed HDTV. What the Hollywood plan has done is expanded that in the source box (sat receiver etc), REQUIRING the bandwidth of DVI to move it. This makes it harder and more expensive to capture, which is a piracy concern.

An analogy would be carrying a can of Great Stuff expanding foam. You can move it around in a lunch box. But expand the contents of the can and it takes a van to move it. Sure, the van, like DVI can carry more. But why use a van, when with Firewire, you can carry it in the lunchbox? The real reason for expanding it in the source box, rather than in the monitor, is that it makes it impossible to record and exercise your legal fair-use rights to copy for archival backup purposes. Hollywood still wants everything to be pay per view. That's the mess HDTV is in now.

Anyway, LCDs are expensive relative to CRTs, especially the Sharp TVs with only 4:3 NTSC. The widescreen Panasonics are even more so, considering they only have 480 lines. Not all LCD TVs and monitors have native 12V capability. Some are in the 20+VDC range. This is a good time as little as possible, and if you do go LCD, buy the cheapest you can find.
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Old 06-18-2003, 07:21 PM   #41
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Maurice

How right you are about buying anything video right now. I see alot of 35" tvs going out the door at Best Buy, etc. and wonder how many people are going to scream in 3 years.

But I bought a Samsung 150MP anyway. I had a G3 Powerbook that the hinge clutches died on, propped it for awhile then the inverter went. I used it for my Delorme GPS, so that hurt. I also put a rear view camera on my motorhome. Now I run both of these through the LCD, switch back and forth. I did have to think about this because the 16:9 on that small a screen isn't really great, but the GPS and camera will still (hopefully) be around after the change so I justified it.

It has a good picture, 12 volt native, and I had the same space consideration as DTBW, a 24 ft. motorhome is basically a Bambi with an engine.

John
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Old 06-19-2003, 09:26 AM   #42
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Maurice,
You obviously have taken the plunge into HDTV home theater (as have I) or planning such. I made the big decision almost 3 years ago as the DFW area ATSC OTA became a reality. At the time there was not much HD content, but the over the air (OTA) 480P signal was vastly superior to NTSC or DBS. Over those three years, the HD content situation has improved to where I long for a TIVO unit that will record both OTA and DBS HD (rumors abound that such a unit is forthcoming). I agree that component video (YPbPr) inputs seem the safest bet for current sets, but Hollywood is DEMANDING an end to YPbPr as they can't use digital encryption on the it since it is analog. I agree that they will probably have NO choice but to grandfather all of us with those inputs, but the problem is that Hollywood wants ALL settop boxes to ONLY have digital outputs and new sets to have ONLY digital inputs, so our YPbPr analog inputs may become useless for HD in the not too distant future (ie, buy our outboard YPbPr components before they disappear). I wonder how long the YPbPr inputs will remain even though they have duty as input for progressive-scan DVD players (those too could be move to digital connections). As you stated, the proposed copyright protection schemes require std DVI inputs (ie those without HDCP) to be downcoverted to 480P, but the fat lady has not yet appeared on stage and the battle is far from over (I do admit that Hollywood will probably win some kind of draconian copyright protection method though). With my Cornea System LCD TV in the A/S, I should, at the very least, be able to buy a DVI output, ATSC OTA outboard tuner and connect it with a much better picture result than if I ran that signal in as s-video or composite.

On the mandated summer 2006 end to NTSC...that is as full of holes as swiss cheese. The mandate calls for the beginning of the end starting in 2006 and only in those area where something like 80% of the viewing area OWNS equipment that can receive ATSC (ie none of the HD-ready NTSC sets count...they lack ATSC tuners). This is why the FCC recently changed the rules slightly to REQUIRE all sets over 36" in screen size to have integrated ATSC receivers starting next year, regardless of whether they can display HD resolution or only 480i (the miminum ATSC resolution). Over the next few years, ALL new sets will be required to have integrated ATSC tuners, so the FCC has put the process in motion to negate the need for NTSC. The FCC does NOT appear to be cutting the local broadcasters ANY slack on meeting their timelines for ATSC broadcasts (they all had 10 years notice that it was coming and hardware has been commercially available for over 5 years). I know that when Congress was INTERESTED in balancing the budget, the resale of the reclaimed NTSC bandwidth was a big political incentive(est revenue in the 100s of billions), but now deficits are back in vogue and there are some pushing for a change in the law to relax the mandate. I am willing to bet that not a single marketplace will find NTSC turned off in 2006, but I also am willing to bet that it is only a matter of time before NTSC vanishes. The other side of the equation that is pushing NTSC out is that the broadcasters can transmit several non-HD programs over the ATSC bandwidth and that means MORE potential advertising income (the current thought is to do multiple programs during non-primetime and then switch to a single HD program format during primetime). As more and more stations are finally bringing their new ATSC transmitters online and the quality of even 480i over NTSC (lack of ghosts, color purity, no interference) makes it worth my while to tune ATSC over NTSC, so as I said, I will be watching the ATSC settop market for an outboard tuner for the A/S.
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