bought a Spartan...need to evict the rats and get it home??

[Spit]

i bought a Spartan Manor this weekend. It's 5 hours away.
Pretty nasty, but with stove, fridge, all the original guts..although the observation room ceiling is on the floor.
It's been sitting in a junk yard for over 10 years...about as long as the pine trees surrounding it. The shell looks great. the hitch and rims are pretty rusty.
the seller collects vintage campers....he says the rims are good, just need $15 tires put on them. however he wasn't really able to get down and examine them at his age. the lugs will need some serious catalyst to get them loose. should i be worried about putting new tires on such a rusted rim. it's not deeply pitted, but pretty corroded. would you folks worry much about driving 5 hours without new rims?

also can someone give me a checklist of things they would do after digging up a trailer from the graveyard to get it back on the road.
tires, packed bearings, taillights...what else?

another thing...is my ram 1500 5.9 enough? It's the 25' manor. it doesn't exceed capacity, but the seller said there could be fishtail with anything under a 3/4 ton.

thanks a lot for any help.
andy

[Frank's Trailer Works]

post some pictures of the rims please...

[bedfords]

A word from the wise(I learned the hard way) evict the rats before pulling home.

There are many things that need to be checked before starting the 5 hour trip home and the good people around here will be of great help. I think you are on the right track by asking for advice. Safety is your main goal so take it slow and keep asking for help.

Good luck and keep us posted. Pictures, pictures, pictures...

[ST131]

I'd pack the wheel bearings on site and take along a different set of good 10PR tires and newer wheels for the trip. Don't even mess with the old ones if they're questionable, especially on a single axle trailer. Be prepared to replace a few studs if they break off when you loosen the lug nuts. Soak them with WD-40 first if you can. Also do a good inspection of the hitch and frame if it's rusty, especially in the area directly under the front wall of the coach. Expect the wiring and lights to be toast. They are cloth and were six volt anyway. A set of temporary towing lights from the auto parts store is the way to go. Your pickup should handle it fine. Just take your time. Good luck! Bringing them home is one of my favorite things!

[Lumatic]

I suggest Barry Manalow to evict the rats

[Lothlorian]

I might have seen that spartan.. I saw one in a junkyard in Porterdale Ga. I even took my wife to see it. She was not impressed and reminded me I have a nice airstream. I wanted the Manor really bad but I passed it up. There is another Manor sitting in a guys yard in Snellville Ga. He picks up stuff like that and sells it. He always has something for sale.

Brian

[Kevin245]

Another thing to consider.

Old Spartans have some history of A-Frame failures due to corrosion. A thorough inspection of the frame between the coupler and the area where it mates with the straight run is a good idea.

Congratulations on you purchase.

Kevin

[tallytwo1994]

Originally Posted by Spit

i bought a Spartan Manor this weekend. It's 5 hours away.
Pretty nasty, but with stove, fridge, all the original guts..although the observation room ceiling is on the floor.
It's been sitting in a junk yard for over 10 years...about as long as the pine trees surrounding it. The shell looks great. the hitch and rims are pretty rusty.
the seller collects vintage campers....he says the rims are good, just need $15 tires put on them. however he wasn't really able to get down and examine them at his age. the lugs will need some serious catalyst to get them loose. should i be worried about putting new tires on such a rusted rim. it's not deeply pitted, but pretty corroded. would you folks worry much about driving 5 hours without new rims?

also can someone give me a checklist of things they would do after digging up a trailer from the graveyard to get it back on the road.
tires, packed bearings, taillights...what else?

another thing...is my ram 1500 5.9 enough? It's the 25' manor. it doesn't exceed capacity, but the seller said there could be fishtail with anything under a 3/4 ton.

thanks a lot for any help.
andy

Hi Andy,
Congratulations on your new, to you, Spartan Manor. Spartans are really great, and if you are up to the renovation/restoration you won’t regret your purchase a all.

Hook up the Brakes. Yes, as with the lights, they were originally designed for a 6-volt system, but they don't care and work fine hooked up to today's 12-volts.

If the wiring for the lights looks good, change out the 6-volt bulbs for 12-volt compatible bulbs.

The rusty wheels, if original, are of the "split rim" variety. They will work for the trip home - IF they don’t worry you too much, and you can find someone to mount the new tires. Personally, I was uncomfortable with the old rims and went ahead a bought new wheels and a set of good used tires when I brought my Manor (1955 Manor Tandem) home.

Use plenty of Duct Tape on the front windows, and it won't hurt to do the others also. The seals are old, cracked, and aren’t up to the job of holding the windows in place. Several people have had the front windows blow out.

Secure the doors. The front curb door is the suicide variety, and it will be damaged or even blown off the hinges if it opens while your traveling down the highway. Secure it from the inside and exit through the rear. I used duct tape on both doors for extra security.

As you travel down the road, check the lug nuts frequently about every 25 miles, they could loosen up for the first 100 or so miles.

My hitch was fine after using some Blaster and freeing it up, but the A-frame was rusted through in a couple of spots. I had some reinforcement plates welded to the sides for the trip. Watch out and try not to make any sharp turns. The A-Frame is VERY VERY short, and you will dent the corners if your not careful.

What year is your Manor? My '55 tandem pulled just fine with our Dodge 1500. My husband said it pulled better than our much lighter boat, and we did not have weight distribution or sway control, just a basic hitch. Spartans are very aerodynamic, and I've yet to hear of anyone having problems. There's production information that will give you the weight, through 1956, on this site:
http://www.spartantrailer.com/

If you haven't already checked out the Spartan yahoo discussion group, here's the link:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/...trailercoaches

Look in the files section for a check list on bringing home your new, to you, vintage Spartan.

Carol

[tallytwo1994]

Originally Posted by Spit

i bought a Spartan Manor this weekend. It's 5 hours away.

Andy,

Five hours - which direction?

Carol

[Spit]

Frank, no pictures of the rims.
Carol, north...carrolton, ga. it's a '48.

i think the rims will be fine once they get the new tires.
where can i find replacement rims though, and how much are they? i should probably get a spare or two.
i am concerned about breaking off a few studs trying to get the lugs off. hopefully the tubes will be good enough to get it to the tire store about 4 miles down the road and maybe that will help get things warmed up.
i'm also concerned about the A frame joints, but i think i didn't give it much thought when i was looking at it because it seemed like such a thick piece of steel.
the front windows are all shattered, but in place like plexi does. i'm afraid they'll crumble in the wind. i wonder if i should take them out or just let em go. i'll wrap some thick mil plastic over the front with duct tape.

i'm now also thinking i should probably add a couple leafs to my truck....but not this week and i'm anxious to get up there. i shouldn't be worried about bottoming out should i?

[Spit]

question about restoration...
is it ridiculously expensive to re-veneer an entire spartan with some other exotic species of wood?

[Silverhobby]

Hi Spit, I own 2 of the Spartan Manor trailers. The problem with buying a new rim is the axle hub. The original Spartan axle hub has a huge wheel bearing. The wheel (I was told) is an old style 5 hole (Ford truck) pattern. These are not readily available. Most wheels that will fit a truck do not have a large enough hole in the center to go over the hub on the trailer axle. Use the rims that are on the trailer IF it can safely be done.

Soak the studs with PB Blaster or the like. I didn't have a problem with the stud, I had a problem with the lug nuts. I ended up buying a new set at the auto parts store. The threads came out when they were removed.

I don't think I would worry about fishtailing. The Manor is pretty well balanced for a 25 foot trailer and has a decent amount of tongue weight. Just use caution with the short A-frame. It makes it easy to hit the trailer with the bumper of the truck when making a tight turn.

[tallytwo1994]

Originally Posted by Spit

question about restoration...
is it ridiculously expensive to re-veneer an entire spartan with some other exotic species of wood?

Probably yes, but why would you want too? Seriously, Spartans came in both birch and mahogany and the interiors were beautiful. Take a look at some of the photos on the Spartan site. The interiors are are impressive even after 50 -60 years.

Carol

[Silverwanabe]

Welcome to the Forums,

In regards to the Spartan Brakes, they are not like the modern type we are accustomed to.

Here is a link to a site of an owner with your type of brakes, includes rebuild.
Vintage Trailer Axle

Also a Spartan Restoration site
Spartan Aircraft Trailercoaches

Greg

[tallytwo1994]

Originally Posted by Spit

Frank, no pictures of the rims.
Carol, north...carrolton, ga. it's a '48.

i think the rims will be fine once they get the new tires.
where can i find replacement rims though, and how much are they? i should probably get a spare or two.
i am concerned about breaking off a few studs trying to get the lugs off. hopefully the tubes will be good enough to get it to the tire store about 4 miles down the road and maybe that will help get things warmed up.
i'm also concerned about the A frame joints, but i think i didn't give it much thought when i was looking at it because it seemed like such a thick piece of steel.
the front windows are all shattered, but in place like plexi does. i'm afraid they'll crumble in the wind. i wonder if i should take them out or just let em go. i'll wrap some thick mil plastic over the front with duct tape.

i'm now also thinking i should probably add a couple leafs to my truck....but not this week and i'm anxious to get up there. i shouldn't be worried about bottoming out should i?

Is it a single axle or tandem? A single axle Manor of that year would have the hard to find rims Kevin mentioned above, although there are several more types that will fit other than Ford. The best solution for these is put something on that's workable (current rims included) to get it home, and replace the whole axle during restoration.... This way you can upgrade everything to a system that actually has replacement parts. If it’s a tandem it probably has a 15 inch wheel which does indeed have a modern replacement. Let me know which you have and I'll look up the information.

I'd probably wrap the windows with something a little more substantial. Besides the mess it would make all over the highway you'll want something there until the windows can be replaced. There is a pre-formed front window set replacement available for you year trailer, through Timeless Travel Trailers out in Colorado. They were selling them for $700 a set but they may have gone up this last year. www.timelesstraveltrailers.com

If you have Dodge Ram 1500, you'll have no problem pulling a '48. My '55 weighs quite a bit more than yours and we had no problem. I'll confess that my husband wouldn't wait to hook up the brakes (a big No No) and he never felt it was a problem, but then we had mostly flat roads on a secondary highway. Why would you bottom out? Is it in a wetland?

Another suggestion is to clean/wash the outside as best you can so you don't attract undue attention. Make sure you have your paperwork in order and at least have a temporary tag or what ever Georgia requires.

Carol

[Spit]

i actually didn't even know this short one had brakes.
it's a single axle. i think they were 16"...but could be wrong.
i'd like to pull it home on the split rims with new tires, but after reading some other posts i'm worried about a possible flat and the trouble finding someone to change split rims. i'd like to find at least a spare wheel and tire if it's possible.
also i'm now concerned about being harassed by the cops. what kind of documents do i need other than bill of sale since there aren't titles on trailers this old? do i need a permit from the dmv to tow it?
for hooking up the brakes...a little brakleen and they'll be good to plug in and try? is there any danger of them locking up or malfunctioning? also, what type of plug do they have...is the modern plug on my ram likely to work? do i need an adapter or anything?

[tallytwo1994]

Originally Posted by Spit

i actually didn't even know this short one had brakes.
it's a single axle. i think they were 16"...but could be wrong.
i'd like to pull it home on the split rims with new tires, but after reading some other posts i'm worried about a possible flat and the trouble finding someone to change split rims. i'd like to find at least a spare wheel and tire if it's possible.
also i'm now concerned about being harassed by the cops. what kind of documents do i need other than bill of sale since there aren't titles on trailers this old? do i need a permit from the dmv to tow it?
for hooking up the brakes...a little brakleen and they'll be good to plug in and try? is there any danger of them locking up or malfunctioning? also, what type of plug do they have...is the modern plug on my ram likely to work? do i need an adapter or anything?

Andy,

Call around and see if you can locate a tire store that caters to BIG HEAVY TRUCKS. They may have the cage for split rims. Actually I should clarify that these rims are really “Lock Ring Rims” and they have liners and tubes (remember them?). The “for real split rims” are 2 halves and were sometimes called suicide rims. Describe them if need be, and they won’t think your crazy. If you’re handy there’s a method that "country boys" and farmers use that involves a chain. I wouldn't try it - but I'm chicken! A number of people on the Spartan site have used their original rims. Several people have also used old truck rims. They have reported using wheels from an early Ford truck, early Jeep, and Suzuki Samurai or Gran Vitara. These are the specs if it's 16 inches:
16x7.5 size with a 5 x 5.5 lug pattern

Be prepared to have to dig a hole, and maybe let the air out of the tires to get them installed even after jacking it up pretty high, it’s a real tight fit. The original tires were very narrow as is the wheel well. Luckily, you only have two.

All Spartans came with brakes (most had electric), and all trailers that weigh that much (1948 = 3700 lbs.) should have them operating (I told my husband this too). More than likely they will be in almost perfect condition. If the wires are bad run some new ones in their place. The old electric brakes systems are very simple. You will also need to add chains, and a breakaway switch with battery. All of this is required equipment for any TT of this size.

The Dexter Axle web site has a modern color-coded wiring diagram. Go to:
www.dexteraxle.com/trailer_plug_wiring

I've so found this site helpful for wiring issues:
www.etrailer.com/faq_wiring.aspx

When I was trying to get up to speed on electric brakes I found the Dexter Axle site most helpful. Check out their resource library at:
http://www.dexteraxle.com/resource_library .

Two more web sites are:
http://www.maxitear.com/brakes.htm ; and
http://www.vintagecampers.com/hitch.html .

The Maxitear site has a Popular Mechanics article on trailer brakes, and although it's from 1969 it briefly addresses all systems. Vintage Camper site has a photo of a modern brake controller (as well great photos of other towing/hitch parts for those who know nothing).

My '55 Manor had a 6-prong plug. It was totally unusable. Go ahead and plan on replacing the plug so is conforms to modern standards. I used a couple of temporary lights but hooked them up with new wire. In fact I decided to put the wiring through the interior of the trailer and made sure I had enough for a permanent installation later on. I removed the original taillights and tie wrapped the temporary lights in their place. Worked great! There are two wiring diagrams on the Spartan site for an early Manor. I’ll attach them here.

I don't know why there wouldn't be a title if it's been registered anytime in the last twenty years, although I know Alabama had some very lenient laws, I thought Georgia would have been more advanced. If it hasn't been registered or titled you should check with your DVM to see what you need.

Remember anything worth something, to you, is worth the time and effort to make it right.

Good Luck and Good Trailering,
Carol

[Spit]

can you guys help me understand what i need to do to wire lights and brakes?
i'm thinking of buying a 7 way plug with 6-8' jacketed extension. then what do i do from there?
i want to go ahead and buy enough wire for the permanent installation.
how many feet do i need of 4 way?
and then how many feet will cover the breakaway and the brakes?
i'm trying to understand the black diagram posted above...do these wires run straight through the chassis?
i need a 12 awg blue wire from the plug to the brakes right? then do i wire from one hub to the other and back again?

anyone have any suggestions for a shop online to order from?

[mandolindave]

You had mentioned that it had the original fridge. I wouldn't even bother testing it. The coils are filled, or were filled, with deadly amonia gas.
I would be surprized if it still worked, and afraid to use it if it did work,
becasuse at that age it is ready to fail.
I left a picture for you in case you haven't already seen it.

[ALANSD]

I looked at a Spartan mansion in Macon a couple of years ago, it too was in horrible shape, trees grown all around it, most glass broken, roof vents gone and water inside.. It was a shame, but way beyond my ability to repair. Though I wished i could have.