Avion trailers

[Jonatron]

I've been fulltiming in an Avion v-25 for the last three years, and it's been a good ride. I've never owned an Airstream, but have friends who do, and I admire them.

From my perspective, the main design philosophy differences between these coaches is that Avions (of my era, at least), have rigid foam insulation in the walls (vs. fiberglass batts in an AS) that is not only warmer, but adds rigidity to the overall coach, IMO. I live in CO in the summers, and insulation in the early and late season is a definite consideration. The chassis has a large center beam that runs the length of the vehicle as well, which makes for a totally solid floor at all points. As mentioned, the cabinetry is all hardwood veneers, which is a nice touch, but does need maintainance. Overall weight of this rig was 4350lbs for a 25' -- I don't know how this compares to a 'Stream.

While we're on the subject, does anyone have another source for parts for these trailers other than Cayo? I'm looking for one of the plastic twin deep cell version battery box covers, and Cayo has been out of them for some time. Thanks!

[FlytoFish]

Jonatron, to the best of my knowledge, you'll be out of luck. The trailer that I'm looking at doesn't appear to have the upper portion, but I'm thinking that with a little ingenuity, I could fabricate a cool aluminum box to hold the batteries in. What might be even easier is to fabricate a mount that goes under the front couch and then you could put a kill switch in mounted just downstream of the batteries. Plumbing the wiring into the front of the cabin would be a piece of cake. Heck, if I decide to purchase the trailer, I might just do that. What would be even more cool would be to cut out the flooring, mount a couple of sunken in brackets, which allows the batteries to sit lower than the floor, and then seal it up real well. Just a thought.
I did figure out that there are two locations with floor rot. Right by the entrance, and then also in the curbside front corner. Knowing that these are the only two locations with rot makes me feel much better somehow, I guess knowing that they are there, and knowing that they can be repaired. Heck, it gives me a project!

[JimGolden]

I have owned both brands.

I had a 31' Excella. I liked it, but it had many problems.

I have an '87 Avion 34-X, with the center bath that's split. I like it a LOT more than the Excella.

The Avion is built much heavier. And while it's heavier than a 70's vintage Airstream, it is lighter than a current 34 footer. My Avion grosses at 9600lbs.

It has the swing arm independant suspension. It rides excellently; no bones about it. The axles are made by Dexter and you can still get them, no problem at all. I put new Dexter shocks on it. I have six wheels and six shocks, fully independant suspension. No rubber stuff to worry about taking a permanent set.

The older Avions used Mor Ryde suspension, which is supposedly even better.

Starting in '86, they put picture windows in the living rooms of all of them. My '87 has this. It is bright and airy inside and I like it very much. By contrast, the older Avions had small windows and toffee colored cabinetry and were dark inside. I did not like those. Although, they are all built very solidly.

You will NEVER have frame sag with an Avion. You can hang your bike rack off the back bumper and not worry about it. My 34-X has an 8" deep main frame with three box section rails, it's got an additional 6" thick suspension frame , so for the middle of the coach, you have a 14" deep frame. It will not deflect! The tongue is three pieces of 6" box section. I have dual 40lb aluminum Worthington bottles. The coach is first rate, no two ways about it.

The downside to the annodized skin is that you cannot mirror polish it unless you grind through the annodized layer. But, the upside is you simply keep it waxed and it looks good.

I love Airstream, and really want to buy my grandpa's '58 Traveller 17 or 18 footer. But, my 34 foot triaxle Avion (which tows like an absolute dream!) keeps me very happy for now!

Best of luck!

[FlytoFish]

Thanks Jim! That's just about the spark that I needed to make up my mind. Even with the minor issues with some minor floor rot, which I believe I can fix myself, I'm fairly well sold. I've heard that the Adjust-A-Ride system is very good. The trailer looks nice, but it needs a good waxing. I wouldn't want to mirror polish it, I like the flat look myself. Thanks again, I'll hopefully be the owner of an Avion sometime soon!

Doug

[JimGolden]

avioncampingandrestoration : Avion Camping and Restoration - Repair,

Doug,

Check the above link out. That is for the Avion forums. It is not as big nor as fancy as the Airforums, but there are some good guys on there with a ton of info, just like on here. And those guys are as fiercely dedicated to Avions as many of us on here are to Airstreams.

Dr. Donald Gradeless is to Avion what Inland Andy is to Airstream. Don knows everything about them and is a super guy. He has some websites out there that you can find with a google search.

I believe '88 they changed the suspension on Avion to use the rubber axles like Airstream. It was a cost savings measure implemented by Fleetwood, as I understand. At least in the 1980's, Avions tended to cost more than Airstreams, and they priced themselves out of reality. Their marketing wasn't as strong as 'stream's either, so I believe 1990 was the end of the silver ones. Although, it may have been mid year '89's that didn't sell until 1990. Fleetwood off'd the silver division and used the name on big fifth wheels for awhile, but I think even that ended by 2000 or so.

Anyway, on the silver ones, the aluminum sheets run lengthwise, rather than across the top. Avion used great big long sheets of aluminum in roughly 4' wide panels and ran them lengthwise. They use 1.5" (I believe) aluminum ribs down the length of it, and these long sheets are riveted to them. Construction in that regard is similar to an Airstream, but they have a much heavier frame.

The 34's have a "basement" all the way around that is incredibly useful for storage. There are hinged compartments all the way around.

The floor is about 2.5" thick. It consists of a layer of plywood, a layer of 1.5" wood every 2' down the length with foam insulation in between, then another layer of plywood on top. Linoleum is placed on top and it wraps around the sides and staples on the bottom. Just like an Airstream, if you're going to get a leak, it'll be a roof seam and then water will run down in between the aluminum walls (inner and outer). With the linoleum covering the edge of the floor, this helps protect the wood from rotting. My '87 had a small leak in an aft seam, but the floor wasn't touched at all. Use aluminum Kool Seal (and ONLY that) to go over the seams. I hit my seams and she hasn't taken water in at all since.

But anyway, the floor in one sits inside the shell, bolted to the floor. You can replace the floor in an Avion without having to move the shell at all. The shell bolts to the frame.

Another thing I find to be a benefit is that they use more "standard" RV fittings and stuff. Makes it easier to get parts.

The six wheel layout tows like a dream. I'm sure the 34' streams are the same way. I'd heard all these horror stories about how they won't turn....that's baloney. They turn just fine, but they track straight as an arrow.

Interior appointments; all hardwood and mine has stained glass windows in the cabinetry. It's really first rate. Some of the older ones were kind of dark inside, but the newer ones are plenty bright. They do not have Vista View windows, which could be a negative or a positive depending on how you look at it. I liked the concept of the VV's in my Excella, but they leaked and had this scotch tint gnarly stuff inside.

Anyway, I'm kind of biased, but I've owned both, and I think you'd be very happy with one. You'll just need a 3/4 ton vehicle to pull it. Empty weight on one is right about 7000lbs and gross should be 9600. They're a coach!

Of note, I've been looking at 5'ers recently, and I've only found one brand so far that even remotely comes close to having as good a build quality as the old silver bullet.

PM me with an email address if you'd like and I can send you pdfs of brochures, pictures, etc.

take care,

[volvophile]

You'll find the Avions have an equally ardent, albeit slightly more eccentric following.
We've had our '63 Avion for about 3 years and love it, at least it beats a tent.
The frame reminds me of a 60's Volvo, and the cabinetry cant be beat. Still she's pretty light with a 2400 lb dry weight.
With 20 years difference between mine, and the one your looking at, I cant speak to much of the specifics, but to say Welcome to the cult -er Familly.

[Silverhobby]

Looking back to the early to late 60's, Avions were sometimes lighter in weight than comparable AS products. This was well before the addition of so many tanks, with large capacities and other amenities.

[FlytoFish]

Well, here's the story: After finding some floor rot, and determining that I'd need to sink aroudn $2500 into it to get it up to par with a new rockguard, new tires, new shocks, a major window overhaul, and some floor rot, I decided to offer $6750.
I called the dealer, indicated that if I can get $20k on mine, I'd be willing to do $6750 on theirs. This is right at trade value on mine, retails over $26k, and it was $2k over retail on theirs.
Get this, the dealer indicated they couldn't do any less than $9k on theirs, and he would be willing to do $15k on mine. I'm certain this guy was smoking crack in his spare time cause this offer was from someone who sounded like they were high.

So, I've now got the 5th wheel on RVtrader.com and hoping for someone to buy it outright. I'm bummed that they won't even come close, but oh well, there will be more.

As for the Avion compared to an Airstream, I really like the Avion. I second what Jim indicated about the Avion having more headroom. It just felt roomier.

Thanks everyone for your feedback and your information. The dream is not dead yet, it's still very much alive.

[Partsman]

Just to add my 2 cents.

The independent suspension models do not come directly from dexter. The good people at Cayo Mfg. actually build the axle at their shop. (can't be bought, just built)

Yes, the Avions do sit higher, and even though we have looked at Airstreams we do not like the style of overhead storage compartments which slide up and down. (Like I said, my 2 cents)

We love our Avion !!

Chris

[SilverAvion]

Hey there,

I am new to this site, and just came across this post.

I purchased my 1987 Avion 30P about a year and a half ago. its my first trailer, and I am learning as I go.

I was originally looking for an older AS, but I couldnt find one in my price range at the time. I was able to pick up the Avion for under 9k, with all systems operational.

Overall, I am very happy with it, although I am still a big fan of the AS exterior shape.

[FlytoFish]

yeah, I like the AS', but I love my 1987 Avion 34v. It has a couple of small leaks, but nothing I can't fix myself.

Check out SILVERAVION :: Index for lots of great info.

[Aage]

Originally Posted by mustang

I was told that Argosy and Avion where built from the parts that didnt meet Airstream specs for quality.?????? When Airstream got rid of that dept those other trailers went by the wayside also. I guess this will always be the folk lore of Airstream.

The version of that folklore that I heard was that Argosy TTs were made from aluminum panels that didn't meet AS's minimum cosmetic standards for outer sheets (i.e. they wouldn't shine up well). They were fine for a painted look though, so hello Argosy Beige...

All the other parts in an Argosy appear to be pure AS.

In other words it was a cosmetic issue nothing to do with product quality.

That's the story I heard, anyhoo...

[Cris]

I've never written on this site but after reading all the input on Avion, I thought I'd put in my two cents. I'm on my sixth trailer which is a 1998 32S Avion. The trailer is incredibly well-built. The only issue I found with mine is that the fresh water tank had a long term leak which destroyed the plywood floor it sat on. I drove to Louisiana form California to get this trailer. The tank fell out in the campsite before we headed back to California, luckily not on the road. I've made a replacement Fiberglass floor and have had no issues with it since. We've towed this trailer to Canada and it tows great (even my wife and teenage son agree). I've made a triple battery box and a Lexan Rock Guard for the front window. Although I like the looks of the Airstream better than the Avion, the durability, window size, Cheery interior plus the cost factor has me sold. Cris

[JimGolden]

Hi Chris,

Welcome aboard! Not to be a goob, but did you make a typo in your post on the year of your Avion? I thought the last year for the silver Avions was either 1989 or 1990. Did you mean a 1988?

I know that Fleetwood bought them in the mid 80's and they killed off the silver division somewhere around 1990. After that, they put the Avion name on really big 5th wheels. But even then I thought the name died out about 2000 or so.

Anyway, I've owned a 31' Excella and an Avion and I like them both. Currently I have just the 34' Avion 34X and I'm extremely pleased with it.

Take care, and I hope to see you on the road!

[hookedonclassic]

Originally Posted by JimGolden

Currently I have just the 34' Avion 34X and I'm extremely pleased with it.

Jim: I've always liked the looks of the Avion (especially the 1989 year with the wide blue stripes). Is your 34' a basement model? Saw a nice 32" front kitchen on ebay a couple weeks ago that looked nice and fairly priced. Rich

[Silverwanabe]

Short Avion history:

The history of Avion begins not with its founder Loren Cayo but with his father Julius N . Cayo. Julius was the founder of Cayo Manufacturing Company. He trained his sons in the tool and die designing industry. As a result, the sons became skilled craftsmen so that each son successfully engaged in businesses for themselves. Howard M. Cayo was president of the K-O Products company, Loren Cayo was president of Star Stamping Company. This company was engaged in the manufacture of oil filters and components. Robert Cayo was owner of Robert R. Cayo Company, a manufacturer of televisions mast components and stampings.
Loren was an avid sportsman and camper as were his friends Allen Grams and Larry Zuhl. They wanted a recreational vehicle that could be used with full hookups, or be self-contained when hookups were not available. Allen and Larry were building contractors. These backgrounds were a good blend and in 1955 the Avion Coach Corporation was formed in Benton Harbor, Michigan. The goal was to build America's finest travel trailer. Allen Grams served as President of the Corporation for the first several years. The company prospered and by 1967 was operating plants in Benton Township Michigan and San Jacinto California. Loren passed away suddenly from a heart attack at age 51. Following Loren's death Robert became President of Avion Coach.

Robert Cayo

In 1970, controlling interest in the Avion Coach Corporation was sold by the Cayo family to a Detroit family headed by Robert M. Ligon. Legan Enterprises, who continued to build and market the same high quality product with Robert Legan as its president. In 1976 Legan Enterprises sold the company to Fleetwood Enterprises. The Silver Avion was built until the 1990's when Fleetwood decided to build the Avion Product with more traditional RV construction methods.



There was a major face lift for the units in 1978, new windows, new suspension, ect..

Source:
SILVERAVION :: Archives

[brhulen]

I owned a 1984 28' Avion travel trailer for years and loved it. I thought (perhaps wrongly) it had more usable cabinet room due to the straighter sides. I really liked the wooden cabinets compared to some of the plastic variety in the AS's. As others have said it was very heavy and that weight contributed to metal fatigue in the frame. It had Moryde suspension which was problematic in that the metal box that contains the rubber bag pulled away from the frame on the right side on two occasions. You just can't beat the suspension on an Airstream. If I didn't own an Airstream now I would probably buy another Avion. Good luck with it and I'm sure you'll be happy either way.

Brett

[Silverhobby]

Brett, If your 1984 28' Avion had the "factory installed" suspension, it was not Mor-Ryde. I have never heard of problems with the Mor-Ryde system. However, I have heard of hundreds of cases of failures with the Henschen axle system that AS currently uses. One plus of finding a good used Avion is that in most cases, it will NOT need an axle replacement.

[JimGolden]

Hi Rich,

My 34 footer is not a basement model. At least I don't think so. It says 34-X on the plate, not XB. I believe XB denotes a basement model.

To be honest, I've not seen a basement model for real. I've only seen photos. From best I can tell (and maybe you can help me out here), it looks like the basement models have a higher floor and so there's a deeper storage area under it?

On mine, there is external storage all the way around the perimeter of the coach. There are so many baggage doors I sometimes forget which compartment I have which thing in (fresh water hose, nozzles, grill lighter, etc.)

I have been very happy with mine. It has the Adjust-A-Ride suspension that they came up with to replace the Mohr-Ryde. I guess it's cheaper than Mohr-Ryde, but it really works well. It's basically take a Dexter axle and cut it in half and put a swing joint on the inside. So what you get is six independant axles. It's got six spring packs and six shocks. I put all new everything on it, repainted the frame and undercarriage, new shocks, new tires. It rides very well. Did the test with wife in the back and pulled it down the road behind the 3/4 ton HD diesel and she said it rode great. We also have a picture hanging on the wall inside that just hangs on a hook, and it's never fallen off or even been crooked. It's a great suspension. Mine leaked a little, but I hit the roof seams with aluminum Kool Seal and it's never leaked since. I changed the rear twin beds into a rear king nest and it's great. Thing has the biggest bathtub I've seen in any RV too, which is great for the kids. Overall I like it a lot.

After having a 34 foot Avion, if I were to switch to Airstream, I'd probably go with a 34 footer there as well. I like the room.

As for weight, they are heavier than the old Airstreams. But my '87 grosses at 9600, and I believe the new Airstream 34 footer is quite a bit heavier than that. My Ram pulls it with no sweat. If I stay out of the gas, I can get 14mpg or a little better. But normally, I get about 12.5 with it.

Anyway, I'm a happy camper

[alaskan@alas]

I going to start looking for a 26'-28' to replace my 34'. We like to go places where a shorter model would be a big advantage. Once got stuck going thru a loop and had to back out; quite a show. My tow vehicle has a 10' Alaskan on it so I have had to extend the hitch, making for some strange turns. If anyone has spotted a good clean Avion I'd appreciate hearing about it. You can get me at 712-233-1914, thanks. Don