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06-07-2008, 02:27 PM
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#181
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Rivet Master
1975 29' Ambassador
San Antonio
, Texas
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 517
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Looks great. And, yeah, I agree with Zep. That's a marvelous looking belly pan! Those rivet lines on the panels are amazing too!
__________________
Todd
“Complications arose, ensued, were overcome...savvy?”
- Captain Jack Sparrow
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06-07-2008, 02:33 PM
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#182
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4 Rivet Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 375
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Screws? You holding out on us?
I'll admit that I used rubber washer headed screws to hold up some loose banana wrap before I brought mine home. Seemed to hold pretty good. However I figured I would get strung up for using them in my final install.
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06-07-2008, 04:01 PM
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#183
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Rivet Master
1971 21' Globetrotter
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Arvada
, Colorado
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,530
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Those are actually 10/32 pan head screws and 10/32 bolts. I installed floating self locking nutplates at all the old pop rivet locations. It makes removing and reinstalling the belly pan much easier.
http://www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com.../nutplates.pdf
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06-07-2008, 04:38 PM
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#184
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4 Rivet Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 375
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Tricky! Especially useful around the storage tank areas. Good idea.
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06-07-2008, 04:51 PM
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#185
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Rivet Master
1971 21' Globetrotter
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Arvada
, Colorado
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,530
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It takes more time to install nutplates then pick up the holes on the new sheet but worth it in the long run. It also takes more tools like the drilling jig and the #40 microstop countersink and the rivet gun to pull 3/32 countersunk blind rivets. It's all about the tools. I'm sure glad I'm not buying all this stuff at once like a lot of you are.
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06-07-2008, 05:22 PM
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#186
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Remember, Safety Third
1973 27' Overlander
Catfish Corners
, Georgia
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,720
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerowood
...... It's all about the tools. I'm sure glad I'm not buying all this stuff at once like a lot of you are.
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Amen to that. Remind me sometime that I owe you a beer....er, several beers.
Jim
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06-08-2008, 10:24 AM
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#187
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Rivet Master
1973 23' Safari
1977 23' Safari
2018 25' Flying Cloud
Palmer Lake
, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,092
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerowood
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Kip, in the data sheet, what is the material that is abreviated "cres."? The other material is steel. Is this "cres" stuff the pewter-looking gray material?
Zep
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06-08-2008, 10:44 AM
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#188
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Rivet Master
1971 21' Globetrotter
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Arvada
, Colorado
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,530
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It stands for "corrosion resistant steel" aka stainless steel
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06-08-2008, 09:50 PM
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#189
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A 7th year newby
1968 24' Tradewind
Indianapolis
, Indiana
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 466
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Belly pan?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerowood
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Somehow, I am not seeing photos of the belly pan referred to in this part of your project. Are there pictures in another location?
I's love to see more about the nut plates. I was just thinking about reconfiguring the former black tank area on my Trade Wind into a spare tire holder. I wonder if that would add more weight to the back end than necessary?
Anyway, with compartments in the belly pan, it seems to me like it would be easier to service tanks, tire storage, and other possible storage areas.
Can you post some photos of how you installed the nutplates, and how they work?
Thanks,
Anne
__________________
Anne
Indianapolis, IN
TAC IN-7
1968 Airstream Trade Wind
2005 Chevy K1500 crew, reg. bed, 4WD, gas
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06-08-2008, 10:00 PM
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#190
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Rivet Master
1975 29' Ambassador
San Antonio
, Texas
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 517
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyAnne
Somehow, I am not seeing photos of the belly pan referred to in this part of your project. Are there pictures in another location?
I's love to see more about the nut plates.
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Check out post number 178 for the belly pan. The photos aren't close ups of the nut plates. However, maybe Kip will post some close ups of them. I would be interested in seeing them too.
__________________
Todd
“Complications arose, ensued, were overcome...savvy?”
- Captain Jack Sparrow
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06-09-2008, 04:36 AM
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#191
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Restorations done right
Commercial Member
1962 26' Overlander
1961 26' Overlander
Vintage Kin Owner
Currently Looking...
Baltimore
, Maryland
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,545
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerowood
It takes more time to install nutplates then pick up the holes on the new sheet but worth it in the long run. It also takes more tools like the drilling jig and the #40 microstop countersink and the rivet gun to pull 3/32 countersunk blind rivets. It's all about the tools. I'm sure glad I'm not buying all this stuff at once like a lot of you are.
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Kip, Can I buy these tools at Harbor Freight? Just joking... I know that good tools cannot be purchased there. You are doing one hell of a fine job. every time I check in I am more impressed. Please pat yourself on the back for me.
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06-09-2008, 08:22 AM
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#192
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Rivet Master
1971 21' Globetrotter
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Arvada
, Colorado
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,530
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I'll take some pictures of the nutplates and jigs when I get home from work, I don't have my digital camera here.
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06-09-2008, 08:40 AM
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#193
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Rivet Master
1973 23' Safari
1977 23' Safari
2018 25' Flying Cloud
Palmer Lake
, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,092
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I use nutplates on Zip Dee installations whenever I can get at the inner side of the shell in those locations.
Here's what I am doing on the Safari--this is the front window arm attachment point. I use doublers on the outside as well as the inside, and appropriate shims to adjust for the skin joint on the outside and the rib on the inside. The inner doubler with nutplates that you see in the photo is for the other attachment point and is just balanced on the clecos here.
Note that you need to use flush rivets to attach both the doubler(s) [even if you only have a doubler on the inside], and the nut plates (called anchor nuts in some catalogs). Flush aircraft-quality 1/8" pop rivets are available. I have no clue where Kip got the 3/32 flush pop rivets (which are required for the nut plates)...
I also did this in another thread for the upper attachments on my Sovereign. The photo may be a little confusing, since the upper vista view window has been replaced with a patch. Also, the exterior photos in the thread below are a mix of the front and back attachment points, which are mirror images of each other--ack.
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f442...fix-33935.html
Zep
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06-09-2008, 08:48 AM
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#194
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Rivet Master
1971 21' Globetrotter
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Arvada
, Colorado
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,530
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I borrowed a camera. First Pic is of the nutplates assortment, and second is of the drilling jig and microstop
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06-09-2008, 08:56 AM
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#195
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Rivet Master
1973 23' Safari
1977 23' Safari
2018 25' Flying Cloud
Palmer Lake
, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,092
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umm, the "drilling jigs" allow precise drilling of the holes for the nut plate attachment rivets in relation to the fastener hole, right? You could make a poor man's version, but it should be out of steel strap--aluminum would pretty quickly have enlarged holes from drill bit wander? [ok, I know with the poor man's version you'd have to hold the fastener to keep the tool aligned, then you'd have to also hold a long rivet in the first hole to continue to keep the tool aligned--painful but cheap.]
How did the microstop work in the steel frame? I thought that bit was only for aluminum.
Zep
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06-09-2008, 09:12 AM
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#196
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Rivet Master
1971 21' Globetrotter
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Arvada
, Colorado
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,530
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The microstop has a #40 piloted countersink installed are they work work well with all metals. The part number for the 3/32 countersunk pop rivets is CCR264SS-3-03
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06-09-2008, 09:49 AM
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#197
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4 Rivet Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelinium
I use nutplates on Zip Dee installations whenever I can get at the inner side of the shell in those locations.
Zep
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My plans WERE to purchase my Zip Dee awning after I completed my restoration. Do you suggest that it might be better to install it (at least the brackets) while I still have access to the backside of the outer skins? There were some old brackets (not Zip Dee I think) that I removed from the lower belt line that had been attached with large lag bolts (3/8" I think) that were pulling at the skin. I was thinking there must be a better way.
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06-09-2008, 11:13 AM
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#198
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Remember, Safety Third
1973 27' Overlander
Catfish Corners
, Georgia
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,720
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I think it makes is easier to properly seal things up with the walls out, if that's what you mean.
Jim
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06-09-2008, 12:11 PM
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#199
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Rivet Master
1971 21' Globetrotter
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Arvada
, Colorado
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vhord
My plans WERE to purchase my Zip Dee awning after I completed my restoration. Do you suggest that it might be better to install it (at least the brackets) while I still have access to the backside of the outer skins? There were some old brackets (not Zip Dee I think) that I removed from the lower belt line that had been attached with large lag bolts (3/8" I think) that were pulling at the skin. I was thinking there must be a better way.
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Now would be the best time to, at the very least, install the Zip Dee mounting hardware. This is where nutplates are very handy. You will never have to worry about hardware coming loose, pulling out, or stripping out.
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06-09-2008, 01:07 PM
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#200
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A 7th year newby
1968 24' Tradewind
Indianapolis
, Indiana
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 466
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Belly pan and nut plates
Now the images in #178 are showing up in my browser. Cool!
Quote:
Originally Posted by monocoque
Check out post number 178 for the belly pan. The photos aren't close ups of the nut plates. However, maybe Kip will post some close ups of them. I would be interested in seeing them too.
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__________________
Anne
Indianapolis, IN
TAC IN-7
1968 Airstream Trade Wind
2005 Chevy K1500 crew, reg. bed, 4WD, gas
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