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SilverPal · 06-16-2011, 07:12 AM

Kip: You did an OUTSTANDING job at the Vintage Airstream Restoration Rally in Albuquerque! Thank you for taking time out of your busy life and sharing your knowledge with us! Just don't test me on all those aluminum numbers....

SilverPal2 · 06-16-2011, 10:05 AM

Kip thanks for your presentations at the resto rally, I learn something from you at every rally

Bauxter · 06-16-2011, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerowood

Yesterday I removed the curb side window just because it had so much sealant on it. After removing the window frame I saw the main reason that they leaked (see 2nd picture). The windows are installed with a foam gasket. When shooting rivets through a material softer then the rivets, the rivet will swell in that material. The foam gasket then starts to deteriorate and the swelled up shank of the rivet acts as a spacer between the frame and the outside skin, thus allowing water to flow right in. Almost all of the rivets were like this. I tried a new tool for my die grinder to remove the layers of different kinds of sealant. I had tried it once before at the rally last year and it scratched the aluminum so I didn't try it again. Then last week one of my co-worker was using one to remove sealant off of our Gulfstream V's polished leading edge and it was not scratching it at all. Long story short here I had the disc's on the mandrel backward. Any way they are made by 3M P/N 30098 and they work great as long as you pay attention to the rotating direction. I had all the old silicon /latex/epoxy/etc mixture cleaned off in about 15 minutes. Re-shot the window back on with no issues.

Kip, When you reseated the window frame, did you just use vulkem or sikoflx between the frame and the body, or did you also use a 2 faced 3m tape. I recently mounted one of my windows and used the 3m 2faced tape with Vulkem, because that was what was there. The 3m tape looks like it has a foam consistency, which now worries me having read your post.

Aerowood · 06-17-2011, 09:58 AM

Just sealant, I'm using an aircraft fuel tank sealant but those you mentioned should work fine. I have been removing all of the foam gaskets from the whole trailer. Leaks are disappearing on all outside mounted appliances as I remove the foam and reinstall wet with sealant only.

D.Phillips · 07-27-2011, 06:03 PM

New forum member here. I just got through reading this entire thread. I am overwhelmed at not only Kip's work but the dedication that is alive on this forum!

Kip ... I have a 1970 27' Overlander an have pretty much stripped the interior back to the interior skin. I also want to do an interior layout change but my plans are to keep a rear bath.

I'm wondering what your plans are for covering the interior end caps of your trailer? I think it was Zep's photo that showed a segmented interior end cap made up on a form, is that your intent also.

I believe my end cap is ABS and it just isn't going to function with the new baths design. I see there is no interior structure to hang things off of back there and understand the current dynamic of a molded piece formed and attached at it's edges. Some have said this molded piece is integral to the structural integrity of the unit. Could you comment on your thinking?

Your commitment to documenting your process has meant so much to so many. I'd just like to add my thanks for making this possible. I appreciate your willingness to share your knowledge and experience.

Best ... Dave

Aerowood · 07-28-2011, 07:27 AM

My current plan is for segmented interior end caps. The rear unit will actually attach to the second frame from the aft side. I'm hoping to get some time this summer to continue with the restoration.

I do not think that the interior end caps contribute any structural strength. IMHO the "as built" Interior skins add only a marginal amount to the overall strength of the torque box due to the low numbers of fasteners. If a greater amount of fasteners were used on the interior and exterior skin it would add significantly to the overall strength, in compression, tension and torque. Attaching the stringers to the frame will also increase the overall strength.

But as I've been told before, "Kip, the damn thing doesn't have to fly". I just don't want it to leak or come apart going down those Colorado forest service roads. As my late father used to say "when in doubt make it stout"

Welcome to the Forums D. Phillips

D.Phillips · 07-28-2011, 04:15 PM

Thanks for the quick answer. After a little more interior research I found the rear end cap to be fiberglass. I have some thinking to do around layout. Today I found some rot in the last two inches of the rearmost floor panel (under the corner drain curbside) so I'm going to have to do something about that.

Thanks again for the quick response. I'll be keeping my eye on your thread. If you find yourself in need of an extra hand I'm in Lafayette and have a pretty open schedule so give a shout.

Best ... Dave

Chuck · 08-13-2011, 10:19 AM

Just finished re-reading the thread, looking for a little inspiration.

(think I got a little TOO much inspiration, but anyway..

)

Couple questions: I didn't catch what you used for sub-floor. is it mgp? and it looks like it was just finished w/ poly--is that "enough" water proofing? perhaps with your construction techniques, its safe to conclude that it isn't ever going to leak again. my construction techinques, otoh...

Someone recently opined that much of the "musty old trailer smell" that so many notice is just "the way old plywood smells". wondering if sealing the entire sheet w/ poly would take care of that...(and maybe even help if I were to poly over any exposed old flooring that I'm not planning on replacing).

Anyway...no mention of an epoxy coating around the perimeter...what about the fastener holes?

-also noticed that you used aluminum angle for the rear hold-down. I've seen some angle-aluminum (seemed pretty heavy; don't know the exact thickness, though) at the big-box hardware stores...wonder if that would be an adequate replacement for the rusty steel?
and does the rear skin absolutely have to be buck-riveted to this? I know, you'd do it anyway, because "you can"; I can't, so easily, but I'm sure I could arrange to have it done...unless olympics would be adequate?

treating corrosion on the inside of the the rear-exterior skin/u-channel: I have a bit of the 'standard issue'...I see that you and other airplane-guys use alodine and zc primer to treat this. can you explain this treatment?
also, how best to remove the corrosion? scotch-brite, wire-wheel, etc?
I have a bit on the exterior of the rear panel, too, along the line of rivets that attach to the hold down plate. its covered by the moulding, but I'm sure this skin cancer should be stopped while I have the opportunity.

Aerowood · 08-15-2011, 09:09 AM

I'll answer your questions in order

1) I used CDX (I think, it was a long time ago)
2) Yes just poly, I'm cheap so I just mixed up all those half cans and put it around the edges until it would not soak in anymore and also just squeegeed it on both faces until the bucket was empty. multiple coats. I then at a later date sanded the top all down and applied epoxy concrete paint (this stuff was like water and soaked in at an unbelievable rate) that I rescued from the hazmat man at work. I just poured this on and rolled it out. I sanded between coats and I applied multiple coats until the wood would no longer absorb any more. I also found out where all the leaks on the floor were at. I still have the white spots on the driveway to prove it and I cannot get it removed.
3) I do believe painting and sealing up the old floor would make it smell better inside.
4) I wicked superglue into the fastener holes before installing the bolts. Also see above about concrete epoxy, it soaks, wicks, and penetrates around everything. My wife is still not happy about the before mentioned paint on the driveway.
5) The Aluminum angle used is one I bent up at work as it is not 90 degrees. I believe this angle is crucial in attaching th rear of the trailer to the frame. I even extended it both ways to also tie it to the two vertical frame members. I also increased the rivet count in this area. I also believe this area, along with the corresponding front vertical plate, need solid fasteners.
6) Corrosion is a fickle thing and has to be completely removed. One way is replacing the part. Second best is to bead blast the part, this is what I did to the channels that I reused. You cannot remove corrosion from all the areas its in unless all mating surfaces are opened up for the corrosion removel to be complete. No point in cleaning up just the visible and leaving it in all the seams. Minor surface corrosion can be remove with a Scotch Brite surfacing conditioning disc, but any rivets should be removed at the corroded area.
7) Alodine is just a conversion coat that allows the primer to stick, by its self it provides very little corrosion protection. The aviation industry that I know has not used zinc chromate primer for decades. Epoxy primer has been the industry standard for years.

Chuck · 08-15-2011, 03:01 PM

didn't notice that the hold-down plate was angled...or, rather, "not 90 degrees". Its clear, though, that it isn't tilted back at the same angle as the skin, so I just assumed it was 90. Perhaps I'll just stick w/ the original, and just wire-wheel/por-15/paint it. It doesn't appear to be that bad...at least, what I can see of it at this time.
speaking of that...is there no por-15 equivalent for aluminum? encapsulating/converting (i.e. naval jelly for steel) it won't do any good?

Aerowood · 08-16-2011, 07:09 AM

If you reuse the original angle be sure to prime it real good or use the POR. Install a layer of sealant between the aluminum and steel to keep moisture out.

On my trailer the steel angle was bent to match the rear skin.

Frank's Trailer Works · 08-16-2011, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck

didn't notice that the hold-down plate was angled...or, rather, "not 90 degrees". Its clear, though, that it isn't tilted back at the same angle as the skin, so I just assumed it was 90. Perhaps I'll just stick w/ the original, and just wire-wheel/por-15/paint it. It doesn't appear to be that bad...at least, what I can see of it at this time.
speaking of that...is there no por-15 equivalent for aluminum? encapsulating/converting (i.e. naval jelly for steel) it won't do any good?

Chuck, check the area under the plate.
Kip, sorry to highjack

maccamper · 02-08-2012, 07:54 AM

Thanks so much for putting all the great information in this thread. I have just started a full monte on our "new" 66 Globetrotter and find myself checking back over this thread a lot.

I just took our door hinge down to a local machine shop and was able to sound like I knew what I was talking about when we discussed the rework.

I hope you know how much confidence and initiative you inspire in other forum members, even if we can't come close to your craftsmanship. Keep up the good work.

Laird

perryg114 · 02-08-2012, 01:03 PM

I have to agree with you on the interior skins don't do much for the overall strength. I am still investigating but it looks like the interior panel holes are predrilled to a larger OD than the hole in the cross members which makes the panels rattle around and loosen rivets. It may just be the holes have worn over the years but they would be oval shaped if that is the case. I have a few rivets that are trying to wear through the panels. I know, Andy is going to say it is drive train imbalance but some of it maybe poor workmanship in the first place. Vibration is a way of life.

Nice job you did on this trailer. You had to rebuild just about everything on it. Did you go looking for a project on this one or did luck play a role? Looks like your trailer either had a lot of miles on it or a lot of abuse. So you going to put an O2 system in it next so you can camp at 15,000 ft? It should be air tight after all the hard work you did. You have a better than new trailer now.

Perry

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerowood

My current plan is for segmented interior end caps. The rear unit will actually attach to the second frame from the aft side. I'm hoping to get some time this summer to continue with the restoration.

I do not think that the interior end caps contribute any structural strength. IMHO the "as built" Interior skins add only a marginal amount to the overall strength of the torque box due to the low numbers of fasteners. If a greater amount of fasteners were used on the interior and exterior skin it would add significantly to the overall strength, in compression, tension and torque. Attaching the stringers to the frame will also increase the overall strength.

But as I've been told before, "Kip, the damn thing doesn't have to fly". I just don't want it to leak or come apart going down those Colorado forest service roads. As my late father used to say "when in doubt make it stout"

Welcome to the Forums D. Phillips

Aerowood · 02-09-2012, 11:26 AM

I had been looking for some time but I really didn't want to travel to far. I was originally looking for a 60's 19 or a 50's 22 but everything I found close was either way to expensive or had title issues. I finally found the 71 21 in a storage lot on Craigslist with the owner having moved out of state. I went and looked at it and determined it was way to much money for its condition and offered a price that was rejected. the owner called me back around 6 weeks later and asked if I would reconsider at another price that was still to high, I offered 1800 and he took it a week later. When I went to pick it up his representative did not have the title and the storage lot fee was not up to date so I couldn't remove it any way. As another lot fee was coming up the owner overnighted the title to his representative and resolved the lot fee issues and I was able to take possession.

It was in really bad shape but but we were looking for something that we could customize the interior for our liking anyway. I was not originally planning on changing so much skin, but as it is said "while I'm at lets just change this too" and it kind of ballooned from there. It leaked everywhere, so having it gutted and using it as an Aluminum Tent helped identify all the leaks. We also changed the layout of out camping gear inside several times to determine what worked for us best. So the layout is the following, Dedicated full size bed crosswise across the rear with storage underneath, Curbside wet bath with a 6 cubic ft fridge forward of the bath but aft of the entry door. Streetside closet forward of the bed and then the galley with double sinks and a stove/oven. Fwd will be a dinette with an airconditioning unit under the left street side bench.

perryg114 · 02-09-2012, 01:33 PM

So do you have some photos of your interior work? I liked your leak proof roof vent. I have thought of modifying the existing square teepee and put some sort of top on it so rain can't get in there eliminating the need for the rubber gasket that has to be replaced way too often. Maybe a backwards facing thing.

Perry

Aerowood · 02-10-2012, 03:01 PM

There is no interior yet. It's still in kit form in the basement.

perryg114 · 02-10-2012, 05:01 PM

You have a layout yet or are you going back with the original interior? I have a feeling there will be lots of aluminum?

Perry

Zeppelinium · 02-10-2012, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perryg114

... I have a feeling there will be lots of aluminum? ...

Kip helped me with my aluminum interior on the Sovereign. He told me after I got started that he was too smart to do that. He was right.

Zep

Aerowood · 02-11-2012, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perryg114

You have a layout yet or are you going back with the original interior? I have a feeling there will be lots of aluminum?

Perry

The interior is going to be completely different then the original with the exception of the dinette and fridge location. The original stove vent with be in the side bath now and I have another one that I will put on the street side for the new location stove. the dedicated rear bed is where the old bath was. All the interior partitions will be a sandwich construction so I can run conduits inside for various wiring. they will be 1/8" ply facing with a 1/2" foam core vacuumed bagged. I have already done a mock up and a 3' x 1' test article suspended between blocks could hold my ample weight. The interior wood will be natural cherry veneer and solids. As far a polished aluminum inside, there will be none as I feel it is to much maintenance. The end caps will be segmented with the rear being longer then the original fiberglass panel due to the increased with of the bed verse the original footprint of the bath. I have a tendency to get up much earlier then my wife and with the bathroom door open it will seal off the sleeping compartment and let me putter around without disturbing her.

I still have one more "Leakless Vent" to install, and the removal of the streetside windows to reseal the frame to body interface, before I start cutting in the access doors for the battery, water heater, water fill, electrical, etc.

I don't know how much I will get done this year as I have yo go to Salina Kansas for the month of May and to Thailand the month of Aug. with lots of work in between.