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Old 12-10-2007, 04:14 PM   #71
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motorized trailer dollY?

"i'll definately need to get a motorized trailer dolly because it's so tight."

I have the exact same issue, I have to hold my breath to pass between the fence and open the door! where can I get a 'motorized trailer dolly'?

you brought up another issue regarding tire size. mine are practicallly impossible to get off/change. never occured to me to use a smaller tire. pros? cons?

thanks, enjoy the resto!

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Old 12-10-2007, 05:07 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fotochop
...
you brought up another issue regarding tire size. mine are practicallly impossible to get off/change. never occured to me to use a smaller tire. pros? cons?
...
fotochop
I had the same problem with my Caravel until I got new axles. With the hub a little bit lower, it was easy to change the tire. How's your axle?

Zep
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Old 12-10-2007, 05:31 PM   #73
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With my trailer slightly raised I could move my tanks from inside the trailer to underneath, and follow the path that David is suggesting for his. That would free up a bit of space inside but more importantly allow me to effectively have a wet bath. Hmmmm, great pictures/plans. They really have me thinking about how to redo mine to complete the wet bath component that's been stalled for a while. I suspect in my case I'll have to build a shower pan out of stainless or aluminum - it's unlikely I'll find an existing shower pan to retrofit my set up. I do need to gain more clearance though. Not much, two to three inches max would work. I already have a fairly low scrubline and want/need to address that anyway.

David, it's not that hard to learn how to weld. Welding equipment isn't that expensive, particularly for the type of work you need done. Or am I missing something here and you need to redo a significant portion of your frame? It's a great way to justify to the non-polish-able love of your life the acquisition of new tools .

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Old 12-10-2007, 06:30 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastrob
Who is the supplier for the shower pan/toilet combo?
i searched for months to find this product. i posted it somewhere else on the board, but here it is, enjoy RV Replacement Parts Product listing


Quote:
Originally Posted by fotochop
"I have the exact same issue, I have to hold my breath to pass between the fence and open the door! where can I get a 'motorized trailer dolly'?
expensive, but.... AC Trailer Dollies,DC Trailer Dollies,Fifth Wheel Dollies,Electric ATVS


Quote:
Originally Posted by safari57
I suspect in my case I'll have to build a shower pan out of stainless or aluminum - it's unlikely I'll find an existing shower pan to retrofit my set up.
check the RV Replacement Parts Product listing they have quite a few configurations.


Quote:
Originally Posted by safari57
David, it's not that hard to learn how to weld. Welding equipment isn't that expensive, particularly for the type of work you need done. Or am I missing something here and you need to redo a significant portion of your frame? It's a great way to justify to the non-polish-able love of your life the acquisition of new tools .
i know, i've been wanting to learn to weld for a long time. i do have a friend who has done some stick welding but he is a little rusty. there's a few community classes that start in january but i'm ready now . my frame is in good shape, i do need to weld 5 new cross members though to accomodate the new tank installation plus the supports. i prefer to do it myself so i can get them exactly where i want them. is there anyone in the los angeles area that could help show me the ropes?

i'll probably end up buying welding equipment soon anyway. i think about my 17 month old son and the skills and tools i can pass on to him as he gets older (maybe that's just a good excuse for getting new toys for me ). instead of video games, he'll get all kinds of tools so he can redo his first airstream before he turns 16.
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Old 12-10-2007, 06:56 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelinium
I had the same problem with my Caravel until I got new axles. With the hub a little bit lower, it was easy to change the tire. How's your axle?

Zep
My '69 Safari axles are at "horizontal" with normal load so I guess it's a toss up on replacement...now anyway. I'm currently looking at $400-$600 furnace replacement, plus another grand or so in other little items (including a LOT of bellypan riveting. On my haul back home (1100 miles) I did catch one flat tire, a one inch break/slit on the INSIDE of the tire and I think this makes me more suspicious of the axle situation, but the PO had the trailer sitting up for a year or so (didn't use the leveling jacks....WHY do people not bother to take weight off the tires/axles???? drives me batty!)

Love the architect-quality layout drawings in this thread, wish I had me some mad CAD skills (along with some mad welding/riveting/electrical ones...) but learn as you go I spoze..

Also LOVE the front end spare tire storage thingy from Inland! I gotta get one of those too. I had to remove the previous welded homemade (but nice) spare storer off the back of my unit to fit in the back yard...made it with six inches to spare.

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Old 12-11-2007, 07:22 AM   #76
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I'm out here reading as many threads before the floor comes out and have enjoyed this on tremdously. Here are my question: 22 gallon blank tank. Is that somewhat large? I think 22 gallons of "black" would take a long time to fill. Does one need that much? Are your pipes and tanks going to run below the belly pan? If they did, wouldn't that make heating the tanks and pipes a waste of hot air?
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Old 12-11-2007, 08:28 AM   #77
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[quote=urbanfood]here's my new floor plan. i now will have a wrap around dinette (after seeing forum member creampuff's). i've slid the bathroom towards the front a touch so it align with the wheelwell and also i can use the opening for the old exhaust fan where the stove used to be and have an exhaust fan in the bathroom. this freed up 2' wide of space between the bed and bathroom. i could use it for a desk which i'd really like for laptop/printer, or maybe some sort of storage. any ideas?

Unless I am spacing out, I see no tall storage ( or much other storage) in your design, as for hanging clothes or for a pantry etc. The space between the bath and the bed would be ideal for that. Then you can run a vent pipe through it and to the roof as well.
Also, raising the shower floor 4" might limit your headroom considerably, and make for an awkward step-in arrangement. Have you considered mounting the pan on the floor ( or just slightly above it) and feeding the grey water under the floor to the side of the tank? It will fill, so long that there is a vent line connected to the very top. As a matter off act, you cen connect the shower and sink drain to the side bottom, if you need to. I did that to the grey tank on my 71 TradeWind, and never once had a problem with it. You can use a compact p-trap for the shower drain, perhaps with a bigger hose than the one shown in the link. RV PARTS OUTLET
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Old 12-11-2007, 09:13 AM   #78
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This design discussion prompts me to ask question that's been on my mind for some time--other than regulations, is there a practical reason for having a black and gray tank? Why not one? I suppose you can dump gray water on public lands, as long as you comply with the rule for x distance from trails, streams, and campsites, but that implies some balance between black and gray tanks that would rely on a prediction of the probability you could dump the gray but not the black. Help me out here--I don't think I want to go to one holding tank (except when I'm fixing the dump valves), but I don't see the practicallity of two tanks.

Which brings me to another thought--if you have a separate gray tank, are traps really necessary? How bad can the gray tank get in a few days? To me, this has a huge impact on winterizing. If you operate in cold weather with bottled water in order to keep the pipes empty, the only freeze problem is the traps. Pouring antifreeze in the drains every night is a pain (forced air heat isn't a good option if you boondock and there's no good way to judge how cold it is under the floor or behind the cabinets). The holding tanks aren't really a problem--they're big enough that they don't freeze quickly and they have expansion space (I hope I'm right about this), or a little antifreeze after you dump should solve the prolbem until the next dump.

Not to let an opportunity go by, now to vent about vents. The Sovereign has two 1-1/2" vents for the gray water. If the tank is so weirdly shaped, why not use a 1/2" flexible cross-fed from the top of one section to the top of the other? That ought to be sufficient relief. And these vents stick up in the damdest places if you want to move the closet or something. Now I feel great!

Urbanfood, I do have one question on your design. You have party seating for 7-8 people and dining seating for 5, but only sleeping for 2 (OK, more if you're friendly, I admit). What's the design objective here?

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Old 12-11-2007, 09:53 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelinium
This design discussion prompts me to ask question that's been on my mind for some time--other than regulations, is there a practical reason for having a black and gray tank? Why not one? I suppose you can dump gray water on public lands, as long as you comply with the rule for x distance from trails, streams, and campsites, but that implies some balance between black and gray tanks that would rely on a prediction of the probability you could dump the gray but not the black. Help me out here--I don't think I want to go to one holding tank (except when I'm fixing the dump valves), but I don't see the practicallity of two tanks.
You pretty much answered your own question already, but to add to this is that you can hide away 2 or 3 separate tanks much easier than one 50 or 60gal combination tank. It offers more design and layout choices. Plus, if the waste water backs up into the shower pan, it's infinitely more pleasant if it is grey water only.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelinium
Which brings me to another thought--if you have a separate gray tank, are traps really necessary? How bad can the gray tank get in a few days? To me, this has a huge impact on winterizing. If you operate in cold weather with bottled water in order to keep the pipes empty, the only freeze problem is the traps. Pouring antifreeze in the drains every night is a pain (forced air heat isn't a good option if you boondock and there's no good way to judge how cold it is under the floor or behind the cabinets). The holding tanks aren't really a problem--they're big enough that they don't freeze quickly and they have expansion space (I hope I'm right about this), or a little antifreeze after you dump should solve the prolbem until the next dump.
I believe that traps of some sort are definitely necessary. Grey water doesn't smell good, either...and gets foul surprisingly fast. Winterizing is a bummer, but that's pretty much the way it needs to be. One way around the P-traps for the enterprising owner would be to install one way valves to the pipes, but I am not sure of the mechanical quality of those devices in a low pressure environment like drains.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelinium
Not to let an opportunity go by, now to vent about vents. The Sovereign has two 1-1/2" vents for the gray water. If the tank is so weirdly shaped, why not use a 1/2" flexible cross-fed from the top of one section to the top of the other? That ought to be sufficient relief. And these vents stick up in the damdest places if you want to move the closet or something. Now I feel great!
You can move the vents around with flexible hose, and I see no particular reason to not combine vents with drain lines, so long that the drains go inot hte top of the tank. I did this on my Overlander, and haven't had problem 1 with the plumbing/venting/draining. I think 1/2in might be too small, inviting the opportunity got a clog in a most difficult place to access.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelinium
Urbanfood, I do have one question on your design. You have party seating for 7-8 people and dining seating for 5, but only sleeping for 2 (OK, more if you're friendly, I admit). What's the design objective here?

Zep
Can you say "Happy Hour?
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Old 12-11-2007, 10:13 AM   #80
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Thanks, UWE, I agree.

One major problem with your "happy hour." It's possible to be happy without 2BuckChuck, but not likely (in my case). I don't see any in the photo...

Zep
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Old 12-11-2007, 10:51 AM   #81
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I,ve got 4 cases of 2 buck sitting in the GV in Long Beach as we speak
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Old 12-11-2007, 11:27 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelinium
Thanks, UWE, I agree.

One major problem with your "happy hour." It's possible to be happy without 2BuckChuck, but not likely (in my case). I don't see any in the photo...

Zep
Well, a precision crafted dry Martini gets pretty close...
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Old 12-11-2007, 12:03 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 62overlander
Here are my question: 22 gallon blank tank. Is that somewhat large? I think 22 gallons of "black" would take a long time to fill. Does one need that much? Are your pipes and tanks going to run below the belly pan? If they did, wouldn't that make heating the tanks and pipes a waste of hot air?
22 gallons is on the larger side for my needs but the tank configuration fits. if i went smaller, i'd still be using the same amount of space between the rails.
i'm not sure about heating the tanks yet, but they would be heated from above. yes, the tanks will hang below the belly pan but be insulated. i agree, i think it's a waste of hot air too. however i could have the duct run and have it closed and only open it on the freezing nights (with a wife and baby that means never) when i want to keep the tanks from freezing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by uwe
Unless I am spacing out, I see no tall storage ( or much other storage) in your design, as for hanging clothes or for a pantry etc. The space between the bath and the bed would be ideal for that. Then you can run a vent pipe through it and to the roof as well.
i knew you were going to call me on that uwe. that's the first thing that popped into my mind when i went with the desk idea, that uwe's gonna chime in asking where the tall storage is... that would be a good pantry location...i just like the idea of having a little desk that i can sit at quietly in the morning, maybe on the next trailer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uwe
Also, raising the shower floor 4" might limit your headroom considerably, and make for an awkward step-in arrangement. Have you considered mounting the pan on the floor ( or just slightly above it) and feeding the grey water under the floor to the side of the tank? It will fill, so long that there is a vent line connected to the very top. As a matter off act, you cen connect the shower and sink drain to the side bottom, if you need to. I did that to the grey tank on my 71 TradeWind, and never once had a problem with it. You can use a compact p-trap for the shower drain, perhaps with a bigger hose than the one shown in the link. RV PARTS OUTLET
i thought about draining into the side of the tank but then i thought about grey water coming back up through the shower. you have the shower drain connected at the bottom of the grey tank? huh, that works?

i'd prefer to not have to mount the shower so high. i'll look into the more compact p trap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelinium
This design discussion prompts me to ask question that's been on my mind for some time--other than regulations, is there a practical reason for having a black and gray tank?
i thought about that too, or more specifially, why can't i just drain the shower into the black tank, it would be so much easier. BUT i think you answered the question further along in your post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelinium
Urbanfood, I do have one question on your design. You have party seating for 7-8 people and dining seating for 5, but only sleeping for 2 (OK, more if you're friendly, I admit). What's the design objective here?
i plan on hosting some cabaret style lounge parties at the rallies. need to find an act

the sleeping will work fine for our needs, my wife and i will sleep in the bed in the rear, and two kids can sleep up at the dinnette (table will fold down) and one more kid can sleep on the gaucho (we only have one right now)

Quote:
Originally Posted by uwe
Well, a precision crafted dry Martini gets pretty close...
maybe uwe will have the honors when this flying cloud makes its rally debut
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Old 12-11-2007, 12:30 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanfood
22 gallons is on the larger side for my needs but the tank configuration fits. if i went smaller, i'd still be using the same amount of space between the rails.
i'm not sure about heating the tanks yet, but they would be heated from above. yes, the tanks will hang below the belly pan but be insulated. i agree, i think it's a waste of hot air too. however i could have the duct run and have it closed and only open it on the freezing nights (with a wife and baby that means never) when i want to keep the tanks from freezing.
You can also install electric tank heaters. It's a 12V or 120V mat that installs right under the tank. Or, at least provide wiring for that. Not so good for boondocking in subzero temps, but then why on earth would anyone do that anyways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanfood
i knew you were going to call me on that uwe. that's the first thing that popped into my mind when i went with the desk idea, that uwe's gonna chime in asking where the tall storage is... that would be a good pantry location...i just like the idea of having a little desk that i can sit at quietly in the morning, maybe on the next trailer.
Well, someone needs to look after you, right? You won't be sitting quietly with kids in the trailer....been there. Any movement at all, and they will want to be a part of it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanfood
i thought about draining into the side of the tank but then i thought about grey water coming back up through the shower. you have the shower drain connected at the bottom of the grey tank? huh, that works? i'd prefer to not have to mount the shower so high. i'll look into the more compact p trap.
It actually does work. Inone instance, I connected it to the dump side, just before the grey valve, and it filled just fine. It is iportant, however, that the top of the tank is vented properly. As long as the shower is above the tank, the water will run into it, top or bottom matters only when volume filling is of importance.


Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanfood
i plan on hosting some cabaret style lounge parties at the rallies. need to find an act
I suggest the guys in the picture below.



Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanfood
maybe uwe will have the honors when this flying cloud makes its rally debut
My number: 1-800-cocktails
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