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01-21-2019, 09:08 AM
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#1
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4 Rivet Member
2017 Basecamp
Conway
, Arkansas
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 340
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Traded my Basecamp in for a RV
Well folks … the reports of the door window flying off was the final blow for me. That's just a lawsuit waiting to happen. Basecamp just had too many issues for me, the refrigerator was the most frustrating. I traded my Basecamp for a Winnebago 4 x 4 Revel RV. I got $32,000 trade in for the Basecamp. On the coldest setting my Revel refrigerator was 0° before I turned it down. I loved everything about the Basecamp … just not the lack of quality control.
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01-21-2019, 06:10 PM
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#2
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3 Rivet Member
2019 22' Sport
Currently Looking...
Cohasset
, Massachusetts
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 136
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Hi Gail, so sorry to hear that your bad experience with the Basecamp continued all the way to you bailing. While you and others were going through your sagas, my wife and I had a deposit on a Basecamp. It was your thoughtful and thorough description of your troubles that gave us cold feet on what was to be our first RV. We decided to change our order to the 22’ Sport and we’ve been super happy with the decision. It’s a shame Airstream couldn’t resolve your issues, or the issues with the Basecamp. There seem to be some design problems that should have been worked out before it went public. The Bambi Sport has been around a long time and has had most of its problems solved. I wish you well in your travels and again, thanks for making your experience (good and bad) known. It helped us for sure!
Rich
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01-21-2019, 10:19 PM
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#3
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Rivet Master
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Sag Harbor
, New York
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 17,523
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Thank you for your many posts in the Simple Survey thread attempting to solve the fridge problem:
Link
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01-21-2019, 10:52 PM
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#4
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Rivet Master
2005 25' Safari
Salem
, Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,367
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Sorry about your Basecamp.
Hi, "RV" means Recreational Vehicle; Did you buy a MOTORHOME?
__________________
Bob 2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent" Small Silver Castle
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
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01-22-2019, 02:08 AM
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#5
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Rivet Master
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Sag Harbor
, New York
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 17,523
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Ooops . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by OTRA15
Thank you for your many posts in the Simple Survey thread attempting to solve the fridge problem . . .
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http://www.airforums.com/forums/f404...ne-169937.html
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01-22-2019, 09:42 AM
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#6
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Rivet Master
1996 34' Excella
Elberta
, Alabama
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 837
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS
Hi, "RV" means Recreational Vehicle; Did you buy a MOTORHOME?
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The term "RV", happens to include all, including, travel trailers, 5th wheels, fold downs, truck campers, and yes motorhomes......motorhomes can be
Classes A, B, B+, and C, and sometimes includes converted vans....not trying to be a smart ass, but after 20+ years in that industry, those are the terms that are used.
For what it's worth
Larry
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01-22-2019, 10:39 AM
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#7
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2 Rivet Member
2017 30' International
Cumming
, Georgia
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 77
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First off, a Base Camp is an RV, all travel trailers, 5th wheels, and motor homes are Recreation Vehicles.
I also need to inform that most RV’s, including Winnebago are not built as well as Airstreams.
I think your in for a rude awakening.
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01-22-2019, 10:43 AM
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#8
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"Cloudsplitter"
2003 25' Classic
Houstatlantavegas
, Malebolgia
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 19,977
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott59
I think your in for a rude awakening.
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You're kidding...right?😂
Bob
🇺🇸
__________________
"You don't know where you've been until you leave, enjoy life" RLC
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01-22-2019, 12:54 PM
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#9
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Rivet Master
2004 30' Classic
Johnson City
, Texas
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 591
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott59
I also need to inform that most RV’s, including Winnebago are not built as well as Airstreams. I think your in for a rude awakening.
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How more rude can an awakening be than to have the Basecamp problems Gail Miller experienced?
We have a friend who purchased a 23 ft. Flying Cloud and sold it 9 months later because of the many poor quality issues. They are happy with their Hymer Touring GT trailer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gail Miller
Basecamp just had too many issues for me, the refrigerator was the most frustrating. I traded my Basecamp for a Winnebago 4 x 4 Revel RV. I got $32,000 trade in for the Basecamp. I loved everything about the Basecamp … just not the lack of quality control.
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Gail, thank you for your posts. Wish you the very best with your new Revel. Hope you have many happy miles and interesting destinations ahead.
73/gus
__________________
Gus - KR4K : Mary - K5MCL
2004 30ft. Classic
2017 Infiniti QX80 Limited
ProPride 3P/Prodigy P3
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01-22-2019, 01:11 PM
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#10
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Rivet Master
2004 30' Classic
Johnson City
, Texas
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 591
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS
Hi, "RV" means Recreational Vehicle; Did you buy a MOTORHOME?
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From NFPA-1192, "Standard on Recreational Vehicles", 2018 edition:
"3.3.52* Recreational Vehicle (RV). A vehicle or slide-in camper that is primarily designed as temporary living quarters for recreational, camping, or seasonal use; has its own motive power or is mounted on or towed by another vehicle; is regulated by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration as a
vehicle or vehicle equipment; does not require a special highway use permit for operation on the highways; and can be easily transported and set up on a daily basis by an individual."
Gail had a recreation vehicle trailer. From 49 CFR 571.3 - Definitions:
"Recreation vehicle trailer means a trailer, except a trailer designed primarily to transport cargo, designed to be drawn by a vehicle with motive power by means of a bumper, frame or fifth wheel hitch and designed to provide temporary residential accommodations, as evidenced by the presence of at least four of the following facilities: cooking; refrigeration or ice box; self-contained toilet; heating and/or air conditioning; a potable water supply system including a faucet and a sink; and a separate 110-125 volt electrical power supply and/or propane. “Recreation vehicle trailer” includes trailers used for personal purposes, commonly known as “sport utility RVs” or “toy haulers,” which usually have spacious rather than incidental living quarters and provide a cargo area for smaller items for personal use such as motorcycles, mountain bikes, all terrain vehicles (ATVs), snowmobiles, canoes or other types of recreational gear."
She now has a motor home. From 49 CFR 571.3 - Definitions:
"Motor home means a multipurpose passenger vehicle with motive power that is designed to provide temporary residential accommodations, as evidenced by the presence of at least four of the following facilities: Cooking; refrigeration or ice box; self-contained toilet; heating and/or air conditioning; a potable water supply system including a faucet and a sink; and a separate 110-125 volt electrical power supply and/or propane."
73/gus
__________________
Gus - KR4K : Mary - K5MCL
2004 30ft. Classic
2017 Infiniti QX80 Limited
ProPride 3P/Prodigy P3
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01-22-2019, 03:14 PM
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#11
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3 Rivet Member
1998 34' Limited
Lawrenceville
, Georgia
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 220
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Interestingly, the refrigerator is the one complaint Gail had (frustrated her the most) that wasn't totally AS's fault. Maybe they chose the wrong unit for the Basecamp or maybe they should/could have been more aggressive in solving the problem. Unfortunately, she may see a better level of quality control with her new choice. IMO, where AS surpasses others is not in their QC, but in the selection of materials that survive the passing of decades. (which also accounts for most of the price premium)
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01-22-2019, 03:45 PM
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#12
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Rivet Master
2012 25' FB Eddie Bauer
Vintage Kin Owner
Virginia Beach
, Virginia
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,801
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Language changes and popular usage sometimes varies from legal terminology.
ASPIRIN used to be a trademarked brand name. In spite of Bayers best attempts, it became generic. KLEENIX hasn't quite lost its brand, everything else is still "tissue" or "facial tissue" (or snot rag for the crude).
RV is generically used for trailers and motorized vehicles, even if legally there is a difference. I, too, have a few pet peeves with common usages in the language. I know the difference between speculation, hypothesis, and theory.... and it just irks me when people state their opinions as "theories" when at best they are intelligent guesses. The Vatican actually took over 400 years to admit that Galileo was right, and that the earth orbits the sun rather than the other way around. I lack the institutional inertia AND the gravitas to be that dedicated to technicalities. I am sometimes SO clueless. I was friends with a married couple who constantly and viciously fought over the proper way to put toilet paper in the dispenser. One day I saw a T-shaped, two roll dispenser which I gave them as a mildly humorous gift to make peace. One roll each way. The smashed dispenser was thrown in my yard that night, and they refused to speak to me forever after. I wonder if they are still married. Don't really care, but if they are, they have each saved a normal person from their crazed extremes.
If RV is a term that gets used a bit too loosely (according to one institution) is it worth going on a crusade to change it?
Now, getting people to spell through as THRU? THAT'S worthwhile, simply because it is phonetic and makes it easier to correctly read THOROUGH and not mistake it for THROUGH.
A good question courtesy of Seal Team: "Is this the hill you want to die on?"
__________________
Today is a gift, that's why they call it the present.
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01-22-2019, 05:22 PM
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#13
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Rivet Master
1969 18' Caravel
Greenville
, whereEverIroam
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,409
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Not a QC issue, much worse
Best of luck to you, Gail, may you have smooth roads and fair skies from here on.
If I may point out to the community here that what seems to be at the heart of the issue with the BC is not QC, strictly and narrowly defined, but with something much worse, engineering and design, with is both far more egregious and harder to fix.
If it were merely a series of flaws in assembly, then that is a problem with a relatively quick and easy remedy.
Rather the whole BC fiasco shines a harsh and unforgiving light on the engineering and/or management teams at Jackson Center. When giving birth to a new product, the mantra in engineering circles is "Design, Build, TEST" It seems the unfortunate BC customers were the unwitting test program, only they had to pay an exorbitant and un-reimbursed fee in order to participate.
Shame on AS engineering for failing to design a trailer that would handle the off-road conditions for which is was (CLEARLY NOT) designed.
Shame on AS engineering for designing the fridge to be installed in a location which would not provide adequate ventilation and in the IR heat of the sun.
Shame on AS engineering for selection of materials and inadequate assembly techniques that do not hold up even on highways, much less off-road.
Shame on AS engineering for designing doors and windows (both interior and exterior) that bow, flex and fail after a few trips.
Shame on AS management for deciding to put out such a pile of crap (and that is, admittedly, an insult to perfectly good crap which can serve a useful purpose as fertilizer, at least) without more rigorous and complete testing first.
Shame on AS management for continuing to market, promote and sell to unsuspecting customers a vehicle with KNOWN, but UNDISCLOSED issues for which you still lack a working remedy.
Shame on AS management for doing everything necessary and sufficient to tarnish the brand name of Airstream and putting the company itself at risk of alienating an entire generation (or two) of customers, AND PERHAPS even bring down the whole company.
At least the new facilities currently under construction include a product testing lab, something that should have been there lo these past decades. Will it be enough, or too little, too late?
You folks may disagree, but I must admit it felt good to get that off my chest.
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01-22-2019, 05:50 PM
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#14
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2 Rivet Member
2017 Basecamp
2019 22' Sport
Forest Grove
, Oregon
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gail Miller
Well folks … the reports of the door window flying off was the final blow for me. That's just a lawsuit waiting to happen. Basecamp just had too many issues for me, the refrigerator was the most frustrating. I traded my Basecamp for a Winnebago 4 x 4 Revel RV. I got $32,000 trade in for the Basecamp. On the coldest setting my Revel refrigerator was 0° before I turned it down. I loved everything about the Basecamp … just not the lack of quality control.
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Wow, good for you! I remember your posting as a follow Basecamper that suffered months with the 2017- the list was long but I enjoyed it when I could use it and everything worked (including 8200 miles to OR from GA)
My trade in occurred 10/18 and was not as fortunate as you with your tradings $$. Am enjoying my Sport 22 though (the hot water panel went out on my first trip- AS is still the same!) Hope your Winnie treats you well.
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01-22-2019, 06:23 PM
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#15
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Rivet Master
2012 Avenue Coach
Corpus Christi
, Texas
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,719
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyguyscott
Best of luck to you, Gail, may you have smooth roads and fair skies from here on.
If I may point out to the community here that what seems to be at the heart of the issue with the BC is not QC, strictly and narrowly defined, but with something much worse, engineering and design, with is both far more egregious and harder to fix.
If it were merely a series of flaws in assembly, then that is a problem with a relatively quick and easy remedy.
Rather the whole BC fiasco shines a harsh and unforgiving light on the engineering and/or management teams at Jackson Center. When giving birth to a new product, the mantra in engineering circles is "Design, Build, TEST" It seems the unfortunate BC customers were the unwitting test program, only they had to pay an exorbitant and un-reimbursed fee in order to participate.
Shame on AS engineering for failing to design a trailer that would handle the off-road conditions for which is was (CLEARLY NOT) designed.
Shame on AS engineering for designing the fridge to be installed in a location which would not provide adequate ventilation and in the IR heat of the sun.
Shame on AS engineering for selection of materials and inadequate assembly techniques that do not hold up even on highways, much less off-road.
Shame on AS engineering for designing doors and windows (both interior and exterior) that bow, flex and fail after a few trips.
Shame on AS management for deciding to put out such a pile of crap (and that is, admittedly, an insult to perfectly good crap which can serve a useful purpose as fertilizer, at least) without more rigorous and complete testing first.
Shame on AS management for continuing to market, promote and sell to unsuspecting customers a vehicle with KNOWN, but UNDISCLOSED issues for which you still lack a working remedy.
Shame on AS management for doing everything necessary and sufficient to tarnish the brand name of Airstream and putting the company itself at risk of alienating an entire generation (or two) of customers, AND PERHAPS even bring down the whole company.
At least the new facilities currently under construction include a product testing lab, something that should have been there lo these past decades. Will it be enough, or too little, too late?
You folks may disagree, but I must admit it felt good to get that off my chest.
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Well said. I agree with almost everything in your post, with one major exception. I've found it's a bit harder to insult a pile of crap than you imply.
.
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01-22-2019, 07:21 PM
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#16
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Rivet Master
2015 25' FB Eddie Bauer
2013 25' FB Eddie Bauer
2012 20' Flying Cloud
Small Town
, *** Big Sky Country ***Western Montana
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,860
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01-22-2019, 09:18 PM
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#17
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:SPACE A" S/O 11 Air19745
2006 34' Classic S/O
Fort Worth
, Texas
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,766
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After touring my Airstream, when new, my daughter-in-law said it made her SOB look like it was made of cardboard. I guess things can go both ways in today's technology and engineering changing environment. However, I believe aluminum will always be better, or at least look better than cardboard.
guskmg
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01-23-2019, 12:28 AM
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#18
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Rivet Master
2012 25' FB Eddie Bauer
Vintage Kin Owner
Virginia Beach
, Virginia
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,801
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guskmg
After touring my Airstream, when new, my daughter-in-law said it made her SOB look like it was made of cardboard. I guess things can go both ways in today's technology and engineering changing environment. However, I believe aluminum will always be better, or at least look better than cardboard.
guskmg
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I agree with your daughter-in-law. There are a ton of bright shiney new trailers that are barely better than the playhouse my brother and I made from the cardboard box for the family's new GE dryer in the 1950s. It lasted almost 5 months, then was burned on the trash pile.
Why is the 95% of the industry a haven for such shoddy work? Answer - most people dream of having an RV and buy one without testing the water.... two to five outings later, the thing sits in the yard til it rots.
Airstream cutter mohos, and the double deckers were probably even bigger flops than the Basecamp or Nest which is also circling the drain. What amazes me is that the new basecamps are as crappy as version 1. Why do it over?
__________________
Today is a gift, that's why they call it the present.
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01-23-2019, 06:35 AM
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#19
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Rivet Master
1969 18' Caravel
Greenville
, whereEverIroam
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foiled Again
Airstream cutter mohos, and the double deckers were probably even bigger flops than the Basecamp or Nest which is also circling the drain. What amazes me is that the new basecamps are as crappy as version 1. Why do it over?
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A good question. I think the idea of BaseCamp, i.e. a rugged, lightweight, versatile camper one can take off road, is a sound one and would fill a need in the market. But the execution was beyond inept.
How much of this was Thor's desire to do it as cheaply as possible while leaning on the Airstream brand's (arguably undeserved) reputation for quality?
What I find frustrating is that there are materials and components already developed in the camping and marine industry (Hi-tech fabrics, carabiners, coosa board, carbon fibre poles, etc) that would potentially make a killer remote camping trailer, but seem to have been completely overlooked and ignored in the design of the BC.
Indeed, it begs the question: does AS even have an engineering dept? with real engineers who learned basic engineering from accredited schools, and use, like, you know, math to calculate loads and stuff?
Or rather does it appear that what AS did was assign some guys to see if they could build a cool looking trailer like the one Nissan originally designed with stuff they already had lying around.
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01-23-2019, 06:36 AM
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#20
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4 Rivet Member
2017 Basecamp
Conway
, Arkansas
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS
Hi, "RV" means Recreational Vehicle; Did you buy a MOTORHOME?
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Yes Rich, the Winnebago 4 x 4 Revel.
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