Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 08-24-2017, 07:58 PM   #161
Rivet Master
 
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Long Island , New York
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 11,520
As you are active on Airforums this evening, could you also update us on the status of the recall on the Basecamp fridge, and what the current "fix" is?

Thanks

[click on arrow in quote to go to the other thread]
Quote:
Originally Posted by AirstreamInc View Post
. . .
. . . Please call our Customer Service and Technical Support team if you continue to have issues with your new Airstream. We're here to help!
__________________

OTRA15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2017, 12:26 AM   #162
3 Rivet Member
 
Colfax , California
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by FricknFrack View Post
Apparently there is now an official AS recall on the refrigerators issued last Friday. I know this because my BC has been sitting at the dealer nearly 2 weeks - I THOUGHT getting the refrigerator repaired - and I just called them to let them know I'm picking it up Friday as planned when the service technician told me they are now waiting for the 'official recall repair parts' to be fabricated and shipped to them. So there is now ZERO chance of it being fixed before our long Labor Day weekend trip to HOT southern Utah.... AND I once again wasted my time driving it all the way to the AS dealer only to have to pick it back up UNFIXED after I was PROMISED I'd have it back fixed in plenty of time for our trip.
I appreciate your disappointment. The notion of being unable to use a high end product because of a malfunction of a simple but absolutely necessary component such as a refrigerator is unacceptable.

Is it possible that the dealer technician who referred to an "official recall" might have been using a generic term about the next version of a proposed fix rather than having first hand knowledge of an official recall?

I raise this because "recall" is a term that is defined in regulation and it carries with it all manner of notification requirements, not the least of which is both public notice as well as direct contact to those affected.
__________________

Bborzell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2017, 12:34 AM   #163
3 Rivet Member
 
Colfax , California
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by OTRA15 View Post
One would think that the enormity of this design flaw would justify creating a dedicated testing room at Jackson Center, which could have its temperature raised to anything at all.

Wouldn't one . . . ?



Don't they have rooms like this already, for testing the performance of the air conditioners, insulation, windows, doors etc.?

Will be the excuse for delays in resolving this SNAFU be something like, "Oh, well, we did not have any hot days in the latter part of 2017?"

I don't know that they do not have such facilities; they might.

From my perspective, the most reliable test of the ability of the fridge to function at a food safe level when the trailer is outside in direct sunlight with ambient temperatures exceeding 80 degrees is to put it outside in direct sunlight with temps exceeding 80 and they have not had that sort of weather.

If the report of a recall is accurate and they have new parts being delivered, perhaps that means that AS has been busy with testing that replicates the operating conditions that have been problematic thus far.

One can only hope.
Bborzell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2017, 02:22 AM   #164
2 Rivet Member
 
2017 Basecamp
Currently Looking...
Park City , Utah
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bborzell View Post
I appreciate your disappointment. The notion of being unable to use a high end product because of a malfunction of a simple but absolutely necessary component such as a refrigerator is unacceptable.



Is it possible that the dealer technician who referred to an "official recall" might have been using a generic term about the next version of a proposed fix rather than having first hand knowledge of an official recall?



I raise this because "recall" is a term that is defined in regulation and it carries with it all manner of notification requirements, not the least of which is both public notice as well as direct contact to those affected.


Sounded pretty official when I spoke to the tech. He said it was issued last Friday.
FricknFrack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2017, 05:53 AM   #165
Rivet Master
 
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Long Island , New York
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 11,520
Quote:
Originally Posted by FricknFrack View Post
Sounded pretty official when I spoke to the tech. He said it was issued last Friday.
Then they should be able to send an electronic version via email in about 5 seconds, a shorter time than it has taken to type this post.



PS -- One would think that an email broadcast to all BC owners and dealers would be a fairly simple task to accomplish ASAP, not to mention being a task which is also a thoughtful and considerate indication of compassion and concern.
OTRA15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2017, 06:01 AM   #166
Rivet Master
 
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Long Island , New York
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 11,520
I believe that Airstream has at least one facility where they can test units for being watertight in simulated on-the-road conditions, with heavy wind and rain. Just add some heat and heat lamps, and voila! you could replicate the hot weather challenges of the new Basecamp's fridge.

If Airstream does not regularly test new designs like the BC for performance in all intended climates and conditions, it is difficult to imagine how they would expect to defend the company in a Lemon Law class action lawsuit for breach of warranty, under the Uniform Commercial Code typical in most states, for "warranty of fitness for a particular purpose" . . .

. . . namely "camping in hot weather without electrical hookups" or boondocking.

"One can only hope" is a sad state of affairs IMO.

Good luck to all BC owners, as there may be a long road ahead IMO.

Peter


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bborzell View Post
I don't know that they do not have such facilities; they might.

From my perspective, the most reliable test of the ability of the fridge to function at a food safe level when the trailer is outside in direct sunlight with ambient temperatures exceeding 80 degrees is to put it outside in direct sunlight with temps exceeding 80 and they have not had that sort of weather.

If the report of a recall is accurate and they have new parts being delivered, perhaps that means that AS has been busy with testing that replicates the operating conditions that have been problematic thus far.

One can only hope. [emphasis added]
OTRA15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2017, 09:05 AM   #167
Half a Rivet Short
 
2017 30' Classic
Carlisle , Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 8,266
Quote:
Originally Posted by OTRA15 View Post
I believe that Airstream has at least one facility where they can test units for being watertight in simulated on-the-road conditions, with heavy wind and rain. Just add some heat and heat lamps, and voila! you could replicate the hot weather challenges of the new Basecamp's fridge.

If Airstream does not regularly test new designs like the BC for performance in all intended climates and conditions, it is difficult to imagine how they would expect to defend the company in a Lemon Law class action lawsuit for breach of warranty, under the Uniform Commercial Code typical in most states, for "warranty of fitness for a particular purpose" . . .

. . . namely "camping in hot weather without electrical hookups" or boondocking.

"One can only hope" is a sad state of affairs IMO.

Good luck to all BC owners, as there may be a long road ahead IMO.

Peter
Hi

Having done a *lot* of environmental testing over many decades .... it's a really big deal to set up a facility that can properly "temperature test" something the size of one of these trailers over a reasonable range. Throw in hazards like propane operating or AC heat loads and it's even harder. From what I've seen, even the "big guys" send vehicles out to an independent lab for this sort of thing. It's far cheaper and far more common to do "road trip" testing for some of this stuff.

Bob
uncle_bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2017, 10:29 AM   #168
Rivet Master
 
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Long Island , New York
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 11,520
. . . whatever . . .

. . . just sayin' that when AS moved the fridge to the front of the BC and robbed it of free air space for the exhaust to get out . . . they set off for an unknown and uncharted territory . . .

If they did this without thorough testing . . . wherever . . . they opened themselves up to the risk of extensive liability . . . not to mention hideous public relations, both within the Airstream community and with the general public.

Just wait until this debacle gets worse . . .

OTRA15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2017, 07:08 PM   #169
4 Rivet Member
 
2017 Basecamp
Conway , Arkansas
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bborzell View Post
I don't know that they do not have such facilities; they might.

From my perspective, the most reliable test of the ability of the fridge to function at a food safe level when the trailer is outside in direct sunlight with ambient temperatures exceeding 80 degrees is to put it outside in direct sunlight with temps exceeding 80 and they have not had that sort of weather.

If the report of a recall is accurate and they have new parts being delivered, perhaps that means that AS has been busy with testing that replicates the operating conditions that have been problematic thus far.

One can only hope.
This all kind of reminds me of one of my favorite scenes in the Robin Williams movie Patch Adams:

Hunter Patch Adams: <snip> I want to learn about people, help them with their troubles.
Dr. Prack: That’s what I do.
Hunter Patch Adams: But you suck at it.

Gail Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2017, 12:16 PM   #170
3 Rivet Member
 
Colfax , California
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 204
Perhaps the most telling temperature reading yet...

It's 95 degrees outside with a cloud cover.

The temperature of the black plastic propane cover is 162 degrees. On a clearer day with more direct and unfiltered sun I have seen readings of 175+ degrees from the propane cover.

At the same time and under the same sun exposure, the temperature of the outside skin of the Basecamp body is 112 degrees.

The black plastic propane cover brings an additional 50+ degrees of heat retention in front of the two fridge vents. It is no wonder that the vents cannot exhaust heat from the fridge compartment.

I think that any fix that does not account for the now obvious heat sink covering the propane tanks is doomed to continued failure.

In addition, I am beginning to wonder if the radient heat collection and retention coming from the black plastic propane cover is a less than optimal storage condition for the tanks. I know that they have an over pressure relief valve, but enclosing the tanks in a contailer that adds considerable heat to the mix seems wrong to me.

Propane tanks are designed to sit outside with sun exposure. They are painted with reflective paint in order to avoid abnormally high internal temperatures. However, I am guessing that the reflective paint on tanks being stored in a black plastic box doesn't come into play if the added heat is transmitted by increased heat from the black plastic box.

Any observations from folks who have knowledge/ experience with propane tanks and potential over pressure woukd be welcomed. Again, the relief valve might be all the mitigation needed, but should tanks, under normal storage conditions be subjected to heat that triggers the over pressure relief valve?

Notwithstanding the potential pressure issue, I think that the amount of heat being built up and retained by the cover is a problem that is easily addressed by eliminating the black plastic cover and replacing it with a box that reflects rather than absorbs radient heat.
Bborzell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2017, 12:49 PM   #171
2 Rivet Member
 
camperguy58's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
Folsom , California
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 77
Refrigerator Parts Change

Sorry, I posted this last night in the Issues thread - I don't know how to link to that post, so here it is again - looks like AS did something in August to try and address the issue.

I was wondering if the Basecamp had the same refrigerator as the Sport 16. I thought they did and when I looked at the most recent parts lists for each, they don't any more. As of August 2017 the Basecamp has a modification:

"Therm-O-disc relocated to absorber tube"

Now maybe some of you understand exactly what that means. I read it as AS has made a decision on how to address the refrigerator performance in the BC. Note that it still is the same Dometic unit, it just has a different suffix (04 for the Sport 16 and 05 for the Basecamp.)

I plan on calling my dealer on Tuesday and seeing if this truly addressed the issue, or is it just another attempt.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	sport 16 refrigerator.jpeg
Views:	107
Size:	116.8 KB
ID:	293941   Click image for larger version

Name:	basecamp refrigerator.jpeg
Views:	112
Size:	64.1 KB
ID:	293942  

__________________
Pat
In between campers
2017 Honda Ridgeline Black Edition
Folsom, CA
camperguy58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2017, 07:24 AM   #172
Half a Rivet Short
 
2017 30' Classic
Carlisle , Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 8,266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bborzell View Post
It's 95 degrees outside with a cloud cover.

The temperature of the black plastic propane cover is 162 degrees. On a clearer day with more direct and unfiltered sun I have seen readings of 175+ degrees from the propane cover.

At the same time and under the same sun exposure, the temperature of the outside skin of the Basecamp body is 112 degrees.

The black plastic propane cover brings an additional 50+ degrees of heat retention in front of the two fridge vents. It is no wonder that the vents cannot exhaust heat from the fridge compartment.

I think that any fix that does not account for the now obvious heat sink covering the propane tanks is doomed to continued failure.

In addition, I am beginning to wonder if the radient heat collection and retention coming from the black plastic propane cover is a less than optimal storage condition for the tanks. I know that they have an over pressure relief valve, but enclosing the tanks in a contailer that adds considerable heat to the mix seems wrong to me.

Propane tanks are designed to sit outside with sun exposure. They are painted with reflective paint in order to avoid abnormally high internal temperatures. However, I am guessing that the reflective paint on tanks being stored in a black plastic box doesn't come into play if the added heat is transmitted by increased heat from the black plastic box.

Any observations from folks who have knowledge/ experience with propane tanks and potential over pressure woukd be welcomed. Again, the relief valve might be all the mitigation needed, but should tanks, under normal storage conditions be subjected to heat that triggers the over pressure relief valve?

Notwithstanding the potential pressure issue, I think that the amount of heat being built up and retained by the cover is a problem that is easily addressed by eliminating the black plastic cover and replacing it with a box that reflects rather than absorbs radient heat.
Hi

Get the right conditions and you can add another 30 degrees to those numbers. There have been a *lot* of studies of this kind of thing over the last 100+ years. 220F is the highest I've actually seen measured, that was a bit of a contrived setup, but still "real" (no mirrors or lenses involved).

Bob
uncle_bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2017, 07:31 PM   #173
4 Rivet Member
 
2017 Basecamp
Conway , Arkansas
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle_bob View Post
Hi

Get the right conditions and you can add another 30 degrees to those numbers. There have been a *lot* of studies of this kind of thing over the last 100+ years. 220F is the highest I've actually seen measured, that was a bit of a contrived setup, but still "real" (no mirrors or lenses involved).

Bob
Hum ... I wonder if my local sheet metal place could make one ... or AS could go back to the one they put on the 2007 BS ...
Gail Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2017, 10:01 PM   #174
3 Rivet Member
 
Colfax , California
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gail Miller View Post
Hum ... I wonder if my local sheet metal place could make one ... or AS could go back to the one they put on the 2007 BS ...
I would like to see an immediate 50 degree reduction of the heat retention brought by the big black plastic box. I'm guessing that the fridge vents would agree with me.

Off to the north left coast in the morning. By the time we escape the fire wrought wasteland of southern Oregon, we should settle into sub 80 degree days. Fort Stevens, near Astoria should be 65-70 degrees. Should shed new light on the limitations of the fridge cooling.
Bborzell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2017, 06:58 AM   #175
Rivet Master
 
Lakes Region , New Hampshire
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 815
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bborzell View Post
The temperature of the black plastic propane cover is 162 degrees. On a clearer day with more direct and unfiltered sun I have seen readings of 175+ degrees from the propane cover.
Pop that cover off and read the actual temperature of the shoulder of the propane tank. Then also read the temperature of the lower intake vent to see what the fridge is actually having to work with.
RandyNH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2017, 07:02 AM   #176
Rivet Master
 
Lakes Region , New Hampshire
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 815
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gail Miller View Post
Hum ... I wonder if my local sheet metal place could make one ... or AS could go back to the one they put on the 2007 BS ...
Two options, scuff it and paint it with reflective paint or take the cover to them and ask the sheet metal place to skin it, they can use thin material and rivet it around the lip and it will look like better than original.
RandyNH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2017, 10:34 AM   #177
3 Rivet Member
 
2017 Basecamp
Kings Park , New York
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 142
So Mrs. Kenmore spoke to John at AS. It appears a bulletin is issued (or close to being issued). Based on what we heard, it will involve the installation of a second battery, fans, baffles, etc in an effort to properly vent the fridge. Parts are not yet available.

Sorry I don't have more specifics.
MrKenmore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2017, 04:06 PM   #178
4 Rivet Member
 
2017 Basecamp
Conway , Arkansas
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 340
What about adding vents to the propane cover?

What about cutting a hole in each side of the propane cover and adding a louvered vent?? Would be pretty easy to do. You could then glue and bolt it in place, with washers so the bolts wouldn't pull through the plastic.
Gail Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2017, 07:43 PM   #179
4 Rivet Member
 
2017 Basecamp
Conway , Arkansas
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrKenmore View Post
So Mrs. Kenmore spoke to John at AS. It appears a bulletin is issued (or close to being issued). Based on what we heard, it will involve the installation of a second battery, fans, baffles, etc in an effort to properly vent the fridge. Parts are not yet available.

Sorry I don't have more specifics.
I hope the second battery is correct, that would be nice!
Gail Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2017, 10:52 PM   #180
2 Rivet Member
 
2017 Basecamp
Currently Looking...
Park City , Utah
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 82
Just back from long weekend in Lake Powell, AZ plugged into shore power entire weekend and FRIDGE WAS A TOTAL FAILURE in the 103-106 degree daily daytime temps Even taking the freezer door off did nothing to help the situation.
__________________

FricknFrack is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Simple question, probably not so simple answer AWCHIEF Generators & Solar Power 10 01-23-2016 04:23 PM
Is it ok to run fridge on propane while towing ? steve.thomps LP Gas, Piping, Tanks & Regulators 154 06-19-2014 08:00 PM
Old vs. new gas fridge performance mcneon Refrigerators 8 01-26-2004 07:47 AM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:13 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.