OK, the manual is useless...

[bobfowler]

On page D-6 of the owners manual for the Base Camp, it states that there is a jacking point to the rear of the wheels (marked with a "Jack" sticker), or you can put the trailer up a ramp (on the good tire side) and change the flat tire.

Well, there is no such sticker, nor aluminum plate on the frame rail as described in the manual. The ramp thing is obviously the directions for a dual axle trailer, not a single. Having spent the past half hour under the Base Camp looking for an obvious jacking point, I've come up blank.

How are the jacking points set up on other single axle AS units? I know this is a new model and there's not many Base Camp owners on the board yet, but I'm hoping someone has an idea.

FWIW, my tires are 275 45 20's - I'm not looking forward to having to buy replacements!

[Jim Clark]

Originally Posted by bobfowler

On page D-6 of the owners manual for the Base Camp, it states that there is a jacking point to the rear of the wheels (marked with a "Jack" sticker), or you can put the trailer up a ramp (on the good tire side) and change the flat tire.

Well, there is no such sticker, nor aluminum plate on the frame rail as described in the manual. The ramp thing is obviously the directions for a dual axle trailer, not a single. Having spent the past half hour under the Base Camp looking for an obvious jacking point, I've come up blank.

How are the jacking points set up on other single axle AS units? I know this is a new model and there's not many Base Camp owners on the board yet, but I'm hoping someone has an idea.

FWIW, my tires are 275 45 20's - I'm not looking forward to having to buy replacements!

Bob I hate to tell you this but I think you are the resident expert on the Basecamp.

Jim

[wahoonc]

Geeze sounds familar! Apparently Airstream is still cutting and pasting manuals!

Bob,
You will want to jack it up on the axle mounting plates. Not the axle itself. BTW what type of axle does it have? Torsion? and Brand and I agree those tire are going to be pricey when the time comes.

Aaron

[Goin camping]

Bob,

There is another Basecamp owner here maybe her rig has the stickers on it.

The only other thing I can think of is to call the factory and have them give you the coordinates.

Sorry I can't be of more use to you.

[bobfowler]

Originally Posted by Jim Clark

Bob I hate to tell you this but I think you are the resident expert on the Basecamp.

Jim

YIKES! My "real" area of expertise is large format photography... I'm in deep doo-doo... When they said an 8X10 foot tent attaches to the back, all I could think of was my 8X10" Calumet camera!

Originally Posted by wahoonc

Geeze sounds familar! Apparently Airstream is still cutting and pasting manuals!

Bob,
You will want to jack it up on the axle mounting plates. Not the axle itself. BTW what type of axle does it have? Torsion? and Brand and I agree those tire are going to be pricey when the time comes.

Aaron

Yeah, Control-C, Control-V...

It's a torsion axle made by Dexter. The size of the tires makes the axle mounting plates seem a bit dicey.

Originally Posted by Goin camping

Bob,

There is another Basecamp owner here maybe her rig has the stickers on it.

The only other thing I can think of is to call the factory and have them give you the coordinates.

Sorry I can't be of more use to you.

Well, I still have to buy a spare tire anyway so I'll stop by the dealer sometime next week. They still have a couple of Base Camps on the lot, I'll crawl under one and see if maybe mine is just missing a sticker or two.

Thanks guys!

[CanoeStream]

Even if you have a dealer show you where these "jack points" are, they are for stabilizer jacks to keep your trailer from rocking as you walk around inside while camping. It is not intended that you lift the trailer off the ground from these points -- whether to level it or to change a tire! See Aaron's post #3. There is more than you want to know at this thread.

[2airishuman]

hi bob and welcome to the forums....

most of your questions and needs will be answered at this link....

http://www.horsetrailerworld.com

ok, i couldn't resist...

the b/c has a short frame and is mostly a fiberglass shell...

the aluminum stuff isn't really structural like the classic a/s twinkie

and the entire rear opens, so folks thinking this thing is monocoque...

think again.

it is a frame based trailer, with a fiberglass endoskeleton covered with bits of aluminum scale, like a shiny silver rash...

but enough on that...i'm itching now...are you?

email tech support and answer will come forthwith...

here is my thinking 2 change a tire...
cooked up right now as i type...

pull off the roadway onto a firm level surface, place flares, markers or other safety alerts

1. chok/block the opposite side wheel
2. keep trailer hooked up to tv but loosen w/d bar tension or....
3. lower tongue jack so trailer is level...
4. loosen lug nuts slightly
5. place properly rated bottle jack or screw jack under frame member about 12-18 inches behind axle base plate.
6. is there an exposed area of frame in this location?
7. raise trailer with jack and consider placing additional frame support now....
8. remove lugs and wheel; replace wheel and lugs
9. remove floor jack/frame support; lower trailer with screw/bottle jack
10. tighen and torque lugs per specs...
11. remove wheel choks/blocks from opposite side
12. rehitch/raise tongue jack
13. travel on!

let me know how close this is to whatever tech support advises...

btw consider adding a 'sealant' to your tires...

while sealant won't help with a catastrophic tire failure...

sealant does help with most punctures.

with the automotive style tires on the base camp....

or any single axle trailer, sealant is a good thing.

cheers
2air'

[Jim Clark]

Originally Posted by bobfowler

YIKES! My "real" area of expertise is large format photography... I'm in deep doo-doo... When they said an 8X10 foot tent attaches to the back, all I could think of was my 8X10" Calumet camera!

My brother has a Clydesdale Camera which he is not using any more. It takes up an entire room. The Camera was used for advertising copy by D H Holmes in New Orleans then my brother used it for a metal photo process. I don't think it would fit into a Basecamp.

Good Luck

Jim

[bobfowler]

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

hi bob and welcome to the forums....

most of your questions and needs will be answered at this link....

http://www.horsetrailerworld.com

ok, i couldn't resist...

Great link! Could've saved a bundle if I shopped there first!

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

the b/c has a short frame and is mostly a fiberglass shell...

the aluminum stuff isn't really structural like the classic a/s twinkie

and the entire rear opens, so folks thinking this thing is monocoque...

think again.

it is a frame based trailer, with a fiberglass endoskeleton covered with bits of aluminum scale, like a shiny silver rash...

but enough on that...i'm itching now...are you?

Well, not to be argumentative, but...

The Base Camp is a three piece fiberglass shell that A/S clads inside and outside with aluminum. While the aluminum isn't load bearing, the fiberglass shell certainly is. Since there are no structural bulkheads and the shape of the trailer is maintained solely by the (moulded) shape of the skin, it is indeed a monocoque structure (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monocoque). All trailers have to have some sort of under-body framework for suspension and tow hitch attachment points - that doesn't disqualify the structure as monocoque, just consider it landing gear!

Yes, the aluminum skin is, in the case of a Base Camp, "like a shiny silver rash", but I'd hazard to guess that it does provide some supplemental stiffining to the structure.

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

email tech support and answer will come forthwith...

here is my thinking 2 change a tire...
cooked up right now as i type...

pull off the roadway onto a firm level surface, place flares, markers or other safety alerts

1. chok/block the opposite side wheel
2. keep trailer hooked up to tv but loosen w/d bar tension or....
3. lower tongue jack so trailer is level...
4. loosen lug nuts slightly
5. place properly rated bottle jack or screw jack under frame member about 12-18 inches behind axle base plate.
6. is there an exposed area of frame in this location?

Not a good one. The fiberglass shell kinda wraps around the bottom of the body and getting a jack in there with a flat tire doesn't look like it's going to be easy. Part of the problem is also going to be getting around the stabilizing jacks with a lifting jack when the time comes. That's why I'm trying to figure this out now, while the tires are still round and have lots of air in them!

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

7. raise trailer with jack and consider placing additional frame support now....
8. remove lugs and wheel; replace wheel and lugs
9. remove floor jack/frame support; lower trailer with screw/bottle jack
10. tighen and torque lugs per specs...
11. remove wheel choks/blocks from opposite side
12. rehitch/raise tongue jack
13. travel on!

let me know how close this is to whatever tech support advises...

Will do! I'm in agreement of your method, it's just that I've read a lot of the threads on this forum where it's argued whether or not to jack under the axle, the correct placement on the frame, etc. I understand the reasons to NOT jack by the axle, I just wish A/S had provided good jacking point info, either via placard or in the manual. I'm shopping for a proper jack as well as a spare tire/wheel. The main frame rails are actually quite a bit higher than one would think by just looking at the trailer from the side. Once you get under there, you see how much the fiberglass body swoops down below the frame.

I have 4 good wheel chocks that I keep in my T/V. I think I'll add a pair of good jack stands as well. I don't think any of my current bottle jacks will work well with this frame...

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

btw consider adding a 'sealant' to your tires...

while sealant won't help with a catastrophic tire failure...

sealant does help with most punctures.

with the automotive style tires on the base camp....

or any single axle trailer, sealant is a good thing.

cheers
2air'

Hmmm... interesting idea. Do you mean the "Fix-a-Flat" stuff or is there another kind I should look for?

Thanks!

[bobfowler]

Originally Posted by Canoe stream

Even if you have a dealer show you where these "jack points" are, they are for stabilizer jacks to keep your trailer from rocking as you walk around inside while camping. It is not intended that you lift the trailer off the ground from these points -- whether to level it or to change a tire! See Aaron's post #3. There is more than you want to know at this thread.

Yeah, I read that thread and saw the resultant damage. That just HAD to hurt...

[GlenCoombe]

Bob, as 4x5's are getting cheaper all the time you could just use one fore and one aft.... seal the bellows and add air for lift.
MY Calumet is looking for opportunity.... will shoot for gas!

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by bobfowler

Well, not to be argumentative, but...

Hmmm... interesting idea. Do you mean the "Fix-a-Flat" stuff or is there another kind I should look for?

Thanks!

hey bob, not argumentative at all...

indeed the f/g shell is structural and bears some load...

mostly the shell supports itself and the cladding... there aren't many shelves or heavy objects attached to the inside shell...

so most of the load capacity in a b/c comes from the underframe...

which supports the toys rolled into the wide open back doors....

with the typical a/s many suggest the skin/shell supports the frame...

not the other way around, and that's the crux of the entire 'jacking' issue.

no doubt you've gathered from the threads on this topic....

now on the sealant issue,
i don't mean 'fixaflat' but any of the current sealants used to 'prevent-a-flat' if you will.

slime, bobs no tube and others are examples of products used for this purpose...

placed inside the tire in advance or via the valve stem, and distributed during travel...

always available to seal leaks up to 1/2 inch or so...

not just bicyles, but motorbikes, atvs, off roaders, and yes road tires...

there are a couple of threads here on sealants, but lots more info with a web search..

and i'm not horse'n around!

as jim noted earlier, you really are gonna be the resident b/c expert!

so we need pictures soon of your rig and all the issues...

cheers
2air'

[Fyrzowt]

now on the sealant issue,
i don't mean 'fixaflat' but any of the current sealants used to 'prevent-a-flat' if you will.

slime, bobs no tube and others are examples of products used for this purpose...

placed inside the tire in advance or via the valve stem, and distributed during travel...

always available to seal leaks up to 1/2 inch or so...

2Air is right - From what I've been told by several sources, fix-a-flat should never be used in a tubeless tire except in an emergency to get off the road and to a repair shop. The product is corrosive and will eat/rust your rims. If you must use it, clean it out ASAP after the event.
Slime and other non-corrosive products are fine.
FWIW,
Dave

[flyfisher]

I agreee with your observation about the manual being useless. I've found almost as much incorrect information in my manual as useful information. Any 3rd grader could do as well putting together a manual as Airsteam does.

My 30' Classic does have these jack points identified, and according to the couple of service technicians at the factory that I asked, at least on my trailer they are intended to be jack points.
However, although my owner's manual also claims they are just behind the rear axle (and I have 2 axles) they are almost at the rear of my trailer, and way too far back to be practical for jacking. You'd have to probably jack my trailer up 5 feet high from where the jack plates are to get even the rear axle off the ground. I bet I spent an hour trying to find them just behind the rear axles, like the manual said, before finally finding them.

[bobfowler]

Thanks Guys, I knew I was going to like this place!

Glen - I don't think the rail of a CC-400 series Calumet would hold much more than 100 pounds. I think that the case for my Toyo D45M would work as a jackstand though - it's a heavy sucker (and clad in aluminum too!).

I'll grab a Nikon and get under/over/around the Base Camp in the next couple of days and shoot/post a lot of pix that I'm sure would never make it into a factory brochure.

[bobfowler]

Randy at Customer Relations answered my email about jacking and spare tire mounting on the Base Camp. Here's his reply:

"It does sound as though the jacking points given were for a trailer and not a Base Camp. The bottom of that unit is exposed and you will be able to get a jack on the frame behind the axle. Never put the jack on the axle.
I checked with our engineering department and there are no present plans for a spare tire mounting kit. By bringing up the question, it may have put a bug in their ear for the need."

[Mike Lewis]

Originally Posted by flyfisher

I agreee with your observation about the manual being useless. I've found almost as much incorrect information in my manual as useful information. Any 3rd grader could do as well putting together a manual as Airsteam does.

My 30' Classic does have these jack points identified, and according to the couple of service technicians at the factory that I asked, at least on my trailer they are intended to be jack points.
However, although my owner's manual also claims they are just behind the rear axle (and I have 2 axles) they are almost at the rear of my trailer, and way too far back to be practical for jacking. You'd have to probably jack my trailer up 5 feet high from where the jack plates are to get even the rear axle off the ground. I bet I spent an hour trying to find them just behind the rear axles, like the manual said, before finally finding them.

Fly---I have a 30' Classic that I just had both the curb side wheels off by jacking at the "factory recomended" jacking point. I did this after calling the factory to verify their manuals instructions. While still hooked to my tow vehicle I put the tongue down until it touched the ground and jacked at the jacking point. Suprisingly it took very little to raise the wheels off the ground.I expected to hear popping and cracking but as it turned out it was more like lifting one leg on a three legged stool, in that is seemed more that I tilted it than lifted it. ---- pieman
PS --didn't mean to hijack the original thread

[Mike Lewis]

FWIW, my tires are 275 45 20's - I'm not looking forward to having to buy replacements:quote

Hey Bob---That's the price $$$ you pay for being COOL !!!!! pieman

[herrgirdner]

And, that comes from the nature of the business.
(War Story Warning Sounds)
When I worked for a long defunct computer systems company, the maximum effort was placed on producing the system and getting it ready for acceptance.
During the final phase of production, we always came up against the "DOCUMENTATION" dead stop. Some of the junior members of the team usually drew the short straw and were assigned to get that stuff out of the way and into a big impressive package; mostly unreviewed. Page count was the metric there. Field support would spend man years getting this useless information corrected.
*** end of WS
I'm happy to see that Airstream is following best industry practices in placing the end user last. Some things never change.
regards