Fans of the Airstream Basecamp

[AWCHIEF]

WCS,
"I was in another RV forum and some of RV owners were telling me that if your in an accident and the insurance company surmises or figures the accident was caused by overloading or overweight, that the insurance companies will often first take a look at the GVWR and GCWR (if available)."

"I was told some Insurance companies are using the GVWR to make decisions about an accident and insurance policies, with potential cancellations, etc."


Not aimed at you but I would challange anyone that makes such a statement to sight their verifiable source.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by wcs

....I'm not certain if they know exactly what they are talking about, but the GVWR is used by some RV'ers to determine the GCWR (if not available from the manufacture) and how much weight can be pulled.

To determine what how much you can pull or approx. GCWR one method used:

1. Weigh tow vehicle loaded and gassed up.
2. Weigh trailer loaded ( propane, water, gear etc.)

Then subtract (tow vehicle weight + trailer weight) from GVWR to determine where you at. To be on the safe side the Tow vehicle weight + trailer weight shouldn't exceed the GVWR.

This is a guesstimate and not your actual GCWR. (Gross Combined Weight rating)

That is not how you would determine how much you can tow. Use the published tow rating, reduced by any guidance from the tow vehicle manufacturer on how much the tow rating is reduced (if at all) by any cargo in the tow vehicle.

You wouldn't estimate a GCWR, where R is rating (ie, specified by manufacturer) using the GVWR, but using actual weights you could estimate GCW. In accounting terms, it represents actual instead of budget. If a GCWR is not specified by the manufacturer, it is for all intents and purposes the total of the GVWR of the tow vehicle plus the GVWR of the trailer.

You also wouldn't do a calculation involving the GVWR and the weight of the trailer. The only trailer weight that impacts the GVW is the tongue weight, and you appear to be using the entire trailer weight. That isn't correct, unless you are carrying the trailer in the tow vehicle.

Don't expect to necessarily find a GCWR for your vehicle. It isn't used for private vehicles, it is a commercial truck term. The trucks that have one are those where the manufacturer expects that the vehicle may be used in commercial service, and need the sticker.

Jeff

[Andrew T]

We should receive our Basecamp tomorrow. I'll be hooking it up to my sister in laws Cadillac ATS 2.5 litre to see how what it tows like.

I would strongly recommend weight distribution with most vehicles.

I'll let you know what I find.

By the way we will have the Basecamp in the Toronto Fall RV show next weekend.

Andrew T


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[subfan1]

Great, just wish the Caddy you use was a SRX, since that's we have!
Very interested in the weight distribution you'll be using and your findings.

[KC7ASW]

Originally Posted by wcs

Ok, I'll take a look inside the owners manual. My hitch has a sticker that states 2000 lbs maximum and 5000 lbs maximum with weight distribution.

I was in another RV forum and some of RV owners were telling me that if your in an accident and the insurance company surmises or figures the accident was caused by overloading or overweight, that the insurance companies will often first take a look at the GVWR and GCWR (if available). Supposedly the GVWR can only be changed by the auto manufacture. Towing addons, upgrades, better suspension, axles, etc. won't change the GVWR.

I was told some Insurance companies are using the GVWR to make decisions about an accident and insurance policies, with potential cancellations, etc.

I'm not certain if they know exactly what they are talking about, but the GVWR is used by some RV'ers to determine the GCWR (if not available from the manufacture) and how much weight can be pulled.

To determine what how much you can pull or approx. GCWR one method used:

1. Weigh tow vehicle loaded and gassed up.
2. Weigh trailer loaded ( propane, water, gear etc.)

Then subtract (tow vehicle weight + trailer weight) from GVWR to determine where you at. To be on the safe side the Tow vehicle weight + trailer weight shouldn't exceed the GVWR.

This is a guesstimate and not your actual GCWR. (Gross Combined Weight rating)

A couple of calculators I came across.

Towing Calculator
http://www.huskytow.com/towing-calculator/

Travel Trailer Weight Calculator
http://changingears.com/rv-sec-calc-...eight-tt.shtml

The hitch rating doesn't relate to the towing capacity. The lesser rating rules. What year, and engine is your Highlander? Is it fwd or awd?

[wcs]

After some searching I found the towing capacity from a Jeep OE specification sheet.

Max. Gross Trailer Weight Std. _______ 2000 lbs. (900kg)
Optional ________________________ 5000 lbs. (2250 Kg) - must have auto. trans.

The GVWR from the door sticker is 4900 lbs.

The towing capacity from the manufacture is a optional maximum 5000 lbs. How it's calculated I'm uncertain, probably with zero payload and a driver?

The optional tow package I believe came with hd springs, hd radiator and trans cooler.

[switz]

The 5000 pounds is the maximum allowable unhitched weight of the fully loaded trailer sitting on the scales. Then one uses the 10% to 15% tongue weight guidelines so it tows properly which means that the tongue weight should be between 500 and 750 pounds.

If a properly configured weight distribution hitch were used, the theory is that ⅓ of the tongue weight is on each axle of the tow vehicle and the remaining ⅓ is on the trailer axle(s). That ⅔ of the tongue weight comes out of the payload capacity of the tow vehicle and hopefully there is enough remaining capacity for driver, passenger(s) and stuff to not exceed the axle ratings of the tow vehicle.

[Rocinante]

Took Rocinante in today for winterization and roof inspection. While there, I saw that they have a Basecamp on the showroom floor with one of the tents attached. It's beautiful. Pictures below.

Also bumped into a friendly salesperson, Jocelyn, who has posted a quick video of that Basecamp on her web page. Word is that it's a popular model and selling well. Given Airstream Adventures NW is such a large dealer they have something like 100 more units on the way, though there may be a bit of a wait to get one.

Here's a link to the page where she posted her video and other info: http://covideo.com/v/3b6LzMUqWo

A couple of quick pictures, because I've not seen many with one of the tents attached. The tent has a floor, and could easily be used to sleep a couple more folks (kids?) if you wanted to.

[wcs]

Originally Posted by jcl

That is not how you would determine how much you can tow. Use the published tow rating, reduced by any guidance from the tow vehicle manufacturer on how much the tow rating is reduced (if at all) by any cargo in the tow vehicle.

You wouldn't estimate a GCWR, where R is rating (ie, specified by manufacturer) using the GVWR, but using actual weights you could estimate GCW. In accounting terms, it represents actual instead of budget. If a GCWR is not specified by the manufacturer, it is for all intents and purposes the total of the GVWR of the tow vehicle plus the GVWR of the trailer.

You also wouldn't do a calculation involving the GVWR and the weight of the trailer. The only trailer weight that impacts the GVW is the tongue weight, and you appear to be using the entire trailer weight. That isn't correct, unless you are carrying the trailer in the tow vehicle.

Don't expect to necessarily find a GCWR for your vehicle. It isn't used for private vehicles, it is a commercial truck term. The trucks that have one are those where the manufacturer expects that the vehicle may be used in commercial service, and need the sticker.

Jeff

I think your correct. I wasn't very impressed with others telling me I needed to figure my trailer weight, towing capacity from the GVWR.

I did find some tow capacity specifications from a Jeep OE specification sheet.

Max. Gross Trailer Weight Std. _______ 2000 lbs. (900kg)
Optional ________________________ 5000 lbs. (2250 Kg) - must have auto. trans.

Payload (Includes Occupants & Cargo) ___1150 lbs. (590 kg)
Weight Distribution, %F/R ______ 53/47

Curb Weight - depending on options: from 3015 lbs. to 3353 lbs. (I have a few of my own options, where the actual curb weight is probably around ~3300 lbs.)

Door sticker GVWR = 4900 lbs. Plus there's also some front and rear axle specifications.

Apparently my Jeep can tow up to 5000 lbs with an automatic transmission. I have a 4 speed automatic (4th is an overdrive), plus HD radiator, 14,500 BTU transmission cooler and hd shocks and springs. ( same as Jeep's tow package)

The OE hitch has a rating sticker of max. 2000 lbs or max. 5000 lbs with WDH (weight distribution hitch).

I think a WDH is necessary to maintain control of heavier loads (2000+ lbs), especially when travelling at higher speeds. It also reduces TW on the rear axle and springs, which potentially become higher than normal with heavier trailer loads.

[Rocinante]

Sorry, thought this was a fans thread about the BaseCamp. Somehow I've stumbled into yet another tow vehicle / tongue weight / WD thread. <sigh>

[wcs]

When you stumble you can just get back up and brush your self off and be good to go.

Yeah your probably right, threads often get off into tangents, sometimes relevant but not quite on topic.

The Bascamp is part of a concept that dates back with smaller and lighter RV's. in theory to travel into areas where larger and heavier RV's can't go or may have difficulty.

One difference is larger RV's are lived in seasonally and year around, where smaller lighter RV's are normally used for shorter stays and not usually lived in.

The Basecamp has features not normally found in smaller and lighter trailers. Has some design features found in larger RV's. Plus it has options to configure it with a connected tent and screen room.

[wcs]

After looking at a couple walk through videos of the 2007 and 2017 Basecamp. I'm impressed with the design and engineering of the Basecamp. It appears much time and thought has been put into a well designed 16' trailer.

Many of the standard items and options you would be unable to find when looking at smaller trailers.

I've lived and travelled in various size RV's for more than 25 years. Some older dating back to the 50's to more modern present day.

The Basecamp is unique in that it can be turned into a toy hauler, the bed can be easily folded up and taken down. Has a good electrical system with controller and battery charger. The solar panel and controller appear to be standard and not an option as with many RV's.

The solar panel @ 100 watt is good enough for use with one battery. There is no generator, a small ~1000 watt quiet type can be easily carried and plugged into at a camp spot, if necessary. The Basecamp doesn't appear to rely much or at all on electricity. This is neccssary when camping off-grid. One problem with larger RV's is most require at least 12 volts DC to run basic items such as furnace, refrigerator, fans, pumps, etc.

The 2017 includes a toilet and shower, which is difficult to find in 16' trailers. Plus a 22 gallon fresh water tank and a black / grey water tank.

I haven't seen or heard how well it does off-road, such as up in the mountains and on rougher roads and terrain.

[OTRA15]

Andrew,

Thank you for your insightful expertise here. I would be curious for your feedback on questions I have asked of other dealers, on the older Basecamp thread:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f404...ng-156584.html

. . . as I don't want to muddy up the waters of this "Fans" thread which SilverGate started.

Thanks,

Peter

Originally Posted by wcs

. . .
I haven't seen or heard how well it does off-road, such as up in the mountains and on rougher roads and terrain.

Originally Posted by Andrew T

We should receive our Basecamp tomorrow.
. . .
I'll let you know what I find.
. . .

[Andrew T]

We had to rush the base camp into the Toronto show so I have not done any detail testing yet. I did tow it a short distance with our 2.5 Litre Cadillac ATS. I would say it has less drag than the 22sport. It is very stable.

We ran it to Toronto on the WRX. Which is a lot of overkill for it (0-60 in 11 seconds).

We made our own plates with pins for the torsion bar chains. The Eaz-Lift 600 is a good match for it. No sway bar is needed unless the tow vehicle is unstable.


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[subfan1]

Sounds like the plates that came with the Eaze-Lift will not fit on the tongue?

[AWCHIEF]

Is it the camera angle or is the tongue sitting rather high?
Personaly I think the Andersen WD system would be a perfect match for this light weight trailer.

[dasams]

Originally Posted by wcs

Jeep GVWR is 4900 lbs. I'm unable to find a GCWR.
3400 + 3510 = 6910 which equates to 2010 lbs over manufacturer's GVWR.

The Basecamp GVWR is the amount of weight that it's chassis is designed to support. Same for your Jeep.

When hitched, your Jeep's chassis will support its weight plus whatever weight that it carries from the Basecamp, i.e., hitch weight plus whatever else is transferred via the WD system. But the Jeep will NOT be carrying 100% of the Basecamp's weight. It has its own axel, no?

Your Jeep is a fine tow vehicle for the Basecamp

BTW, for my Porsche, the GCWR is the GVWR of my Cayenne plus its tow capacity.

[Andrew T]

Conventional snap ups won't work as there is no space on top of the frame rails.

Because the fridge vents are on the front of the trailer the lp cover needs to be sealed to below the frame.

Pins for the torsion bar chains were common in the 60's when trailers were smaller.

Andy


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[Andrew T]

It is likely the photographer the Basecamp is level.


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[wcs]

Originally Posted by dasams

The Basecamp GVWR is the amount of weight that it's chassis is designed to support. Same for your Jeep.

When hitched, your Jeep's chassis will support its weight plus whatever weight that it carries from the Basecamp, i.e., hitch weight plus whatever else is transferred via the WD system. But the Jeep will NOT be carrying 100% of the Basecamp's weight. It has its own axel, no?

Your Jeep is a fine tow vehicle for the Basecamp

BTW, for my Porsche, the GCWR is the GVWR of my Cayenne plus its tow capacity.

I think you're correct. I must have been looking at the use of the GVWR to estimate tow capacity incorrectly. The GVWR relates more directly to the total weight of the tow vehicle, payload and TW (tongue weight).

My Jeep's tow capacity rating from Jeep is a max. 2000 lbs and an optional max. of 5000 lbs with automatic transmission.

The TW can be adjusted through the GTW and use of a WDH (weight distribution hitch) that potentially can distribute part of the TW to the 4 wheels of the tow vehicle.

My OE hitch has a rating of max. 2000 lbs and max 5000 lbs with WDH. The TW is 500 lbs. Rating similar to Jeeps tow capacity rating.

The Basecamp appears to be a great 16' trailer. It would be difficult to find something similar in a cabin type trailer. There are off-road trailers without cabins, some include a tent, that are lighter, better suited for more extreme off-road terrains and environment. None that I have looked at so far, have any place to sleep (except inside an attached foldout tent), built-in water and sewer, additional storage, etc.

It appears the designers of the Basecamp included a departure and approach angle as part of the trailers rear end. Off and non-improved roads this become advantageous when off-road as trailers often become damaged due to not having an approach and departure angles. The axle and wheels appear to provide enough ground clearance under the trailer's axle. The rear approach and departure angles increases the underbelly's ground clearance.

Though I don't think anyone has come up with any measurements, there was some discussion about items hanging down closer to the ground such as the sewer grey/black water connection.