2017 Basecamp Issues

[Rocinante]

Originally Posted by RandyNH

The only real solution would be to increase the well area to accommodate the travel.

Wouldn't it also be possible for them to do a "lift" of the axle as opposed to shoving a wedge in there? I could be wrong, but that might be another way to fix it without half-waying it with a wedge or re-constructing the wheel wells.

[Gail Miller]

Originally Posted by Rocinante

Wouldn't it also be possible for them to do a "lift" of the axle as opposed to shoving a wedge in there? I could be wrong, but that might be another way to fix it without half-waying it with a wedge or re-constructing the wheel wells.

I really think re-constructing the wheel wells is the best route ... someone's camper leaked at the wheel well ... imagine that :-) ... so, if they changed the wheel wells, we'd have to watch for potential leaks.

[Gail Miller]

Originally Posted by KayakGa

I saw my BC yesterday at the dealer; refrig was pulled; appears to be 2 drains at refrig compartment which is "waterproof"; condensation drains to outside at those front vents behind gas; there is a second near the front of refrig- their fix is to put a large bead of caulk as a dam to keep any water in that compartment.
Axle- he mentioned maybe a wedge to fix (and didn't explain further); if they have to fabricate new axles, could take several weeks; and no, he said, they are not to let them leave the lot (but did say it was mine is I wanted to take it. Question is how much of a safety issue is this? Can we use it until the fix? To be determined!

My thoughts, on 'can we use it until the fix', is ... if there is some kind of axle failure, that's not only going to damage your camper, but potentially damage your tow vehicle too. I'm waiting on the fix for any long trip. Sad!!!

[incahoots]

I'm watching these developments carefully as I really like this camper. One of the few additional things I'd like to see in a 2018 model (other than fixes for these 'issues') is increased ground clearance for some mild/moderate off road travel. Does anyone think this will be possible with the axle fix? If not by the factory recall - then any do it yourselfers with advice regarding this model? Thanks and hope to purchase a bc soon!

[RandyNH]

Originally Posted by Rocinante

Wouldn't it also be possible for them to do a "lift" of the axle as opposed to shoving a wedge in there? I could be wrong, but that might be another way to fix it without half-waying it with a wedge or re-constructing the wheel wells.

Not really, the contact point is the front of the tire, so you would need to lift it enough to get the apex of the tire out of the well.

The other two ways, to me, is to move the axle back 1/4” to 1/2”, if the tire only has the possiblity of rubbing, that kind of distance should be enough, the only calculation is how much does it affect tongue weight, doing so would increase it.

The other thing that any owner can for do themselves is to change the mounted tire out, the installed spec'd tire is 225/55R18 with a diameter of 27.7” switching out to a 225/45R18 would change that to 26" pulling it back away from the well more than 3/4” which should be fine if it was "just" making contact.

As far as people who are concerned about the safety of using them now. The paperwork on the recall states that it is when the trailer is maxed out, so if you travel lightly and wait until your destination to fill your tank, it seems that you should be fine. I would tape paper inside the wheel well and then go out for a test ride, check it, then go for a bumpier ride over speed bumps, if that tire ever touches that paper it will rip it off. This will give you an idea as to what the tolerance is before contact and you can guage your travel.

Long term contact and rubbing would cause excessive heat to built up and be dangerous to the tire, I would also think it could cause the plastic wheel well to catch fire and consume the trailer, but bumpy entrance and access roads would just be more detrimental to the plastic wheel well.

[Gail Miller]

Originally Posted by RandyNH

Not really, the contact point is the front of the tire, so you would need to lift it enough to get the apex of the tire out of the well.

The other two ways, to me, is to move the axle back 1/4” to 1/2”, if the tire only has the possiblity of rubbing, that kind of distance should be enough, the only calculation is how much does it affect tongue weight, doing so would increase it.

The other thing that any owner can for do themselves is to change the mounted tire out, the installed spec'd tire is 225/55R18 with a diameter of 27.7” switching out to a 225/45R18 would change that to 26" pulling it back away from the well more than 3/4” which should be fine if it was "just" making contact.

As far as people who are concerned about the safety of using them now. The paperwork on the recall states that it is when the trailer is maxed out, so if you travel lightly and wait until your destination to fill your tank, it seems that you should be fine. I would tape paper inside the wheel well and then go out for a test ride, check it, then go for a bumpier ride over speed bumps, if that tire ever touches that paper it will rip it off. This will give you an idea as to what the tolerance is before contact and you can guage your travel.

Long term contact and rubbing would cause excessive heat to built up and be dangerous to the tire, I would also think it could cause the plastic wheel well to catch fire and consume the trailer, but bumpy entrance and access roads would just be more detrimental to the plastic wheel well.

Gee ... I hadn't even thought about if you were traveling with water or had to travel a distance to dump your gray tank. Randy, are you concerned about the capacity of the axle being 3500 pounds? My camper axle weighed 2400 pounds at a weigh station, not loaded with anything. Specs for the camper says it weighs 2585. If you filled your water tank with 22 gal. of water, weight of water would be ~184 pounds. Loaded weight capacity of the camper, I think is 780 pounds.

[RandyNH]

Originally Posted by KayakGa

Axle- he mentioned maybe a wedge to fix (and didn't explain further); if they have to fabricate new axles, could take several weeks; and no, he said, they are not to let them leave the lot (but did say it was mine is I wanted to take it. Question is how much of a safety issue is this? Can we use it until the fix? To be determined!

Did some more light reading, this is on the NHTSA website

Description of Remedy :
Description of Remedy Program : The axle on the trailer will be replaced. The new axle will limit the axle
travel prevent interference with the inner wheel well. Owners trailers will
be remedied at no expense to them.
How Remedy Component Differs
from Recalled Component :
Visually, the axle will have the same appearance as the recalled axle. The
new axle will have a lower trailing arm angle and rating.

LINK

[RandyNH]

Originally Posted by Gail Miller

Gee ... I hadn't even thought about if you were traveling with water or had to travel a distance to dump your gray tank. Randy, are you concerned about the capacity of the axle being 3500 pounds? My camper axle weighed 2400 pounds at a weigh station, not loaded with anything. Specs for the camper says it weighs 2585. If you filled your water tank with 22 gal. of water, weight of water would be ~184 pounds. Loaded weight capacity of the camper, I think is 780 pounds.

I'm not exactly sure what your asking. All I mean in regard to it being maxed out, is the problem seems to be an issue if the suspension is completely compressed, thus allowing the wheel assembly to be at it's furthest forward position. The two ways to achieve this is to overload the trailer so much that it is almost at that point without any movement and then when it is towed any impact "bottoms it out" the other way is to pull the trailer over severe enough conditions that it does so, like a speed bump at speed or hitting a pot hole.

Here is a video of how the axles work, sometimes a visual is helpful.

LINK

So in my other link it seems the repair is to replace the axle with one that limits the amount of travel so that it can never compress enough to get to the impact point. So airstream needs to engineer how much compression is allowable and then new axles need to be manufactured to the new arm travel spec. This could also be accomplished with bumper stops for them. Either way, this will limit suspension travel and result in a harsher ride for the trailer, when the soft travel portion of the suspension is exhausted it will become hard impact, I wonder what issues this will cause down the road, the popped rivet saga, plumbing fittings being jarred loose, drawers bouncing out, if there is an account on the roof or solar panels the surface mount locations could possibly flex and eventually leak from the stress......

If I owned one, 1. I would simply travel with the trailer as light as possible for the time being 2. I would avoid the dealer for quite some time (if they are going to impound the trailer) so that I was last on the list to be done 3. Pay attention to what others who have had the repair done are now finding is happening. So that I can weigh what I want done, seriously my first consideration would be to reduce my tire size diameter and keep the original suspension setup.

While I have been a beta tester numerous times, once I had the product I then choose when I was beta with it again. Thus, once I was comfortable with when, what circumstances and how my wheel contacted the well and felt comfortable traveling with it, I would not be a beta for the repair, they just have never demonstrated enough thoroughness to convince me they'll get it right the first time.

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by RandyNH

. . .
Here is a video of how the axles work, sometimes a visual is helpful.
. . .
they just have never demonstrated enough thoroughness to convince me they'll get it right the first time.

Thanks for the video! Always wondered about the details of the system.

As you suspect, Airstream apparently did not test the Basecamp thoroughly enough in real world conditions out in the field. Making this roll-out resemble Washington DC yesterday.



With all the hoopla about the new Basecamp, wish they had taken the time get it right!

Have a good weekend.

Peter

Originally Posted by OTRA15

. . .
Raising the question -- IMO -- of whether they tested the design adequately in real life conditions on the road, in rough terrain, and so forth.

Oh but wait, they would have had to do that in public . . .

Did the cat-and-mouse secrecy surrounding this roll-out just turn around and bite Airstream [snip] ?

[Gail Miller]

Originally Posted by RandyNH

I'm not exactly sure what your asking. All I mean in regard to it being maxed out, is the problem seems to be an issue if the suspension is completely compressed, thus allowing the wheel assembly to be at it's furthest forward position. The two ways to achieve this is to overload the trailer so much that it is almost at that point without any movement and then when it is towed any impact "bottoms it out" the other way is to pull the trailer over severe enough conditions that it does so, like a speed bump at speed or hitting a pot hole.

Here is a video of how the axles work, sometimes a visual is helpful.

So in my other link it seems the repair is to replace the axle with one that limits the amount of travel so that it can never compress enough to get to the impact point. So airstream needs to engineer how much compression is allowable and then new axles need to be manufactured to the new arm travel spec. This could also be accomplished with bumper stops for them. Either way, this will limit suspension travel and result in a harsher ride for the trailer, when the soft travel portion of the suspension is exhausted it will become hard impact, I wonder what issues this will cause down the road, the popped rivet saga, plumbing fittings being jarred loose, drawers bouncing out, if there is an account on the roof or solar panels the surface mount locations could possibly flex and eventually leak from the stress......

If I owned one, 1. I would simply travel with the trailer as light as possible for the time being 2. I would avoid the dealer for quite some time (if they are going to impound the trailer) so that I was last on the list to be done 3. Pay attention to what others who have had the repair done are now finding is happening. So that I can weigh what I want done, seriously my first consideration would be to reduce my tire size diameter and keep the original suspension setup.

While I have been a beta tester numerous times, once I had the product I then choose when I was beta with it again. Thus, once I was comfortable with when, what circumstances and how my wheel contacted the well and felt comfortable traveling with it, I would not be a beta for the repair, they just have never demonstrated enough thoroughness to convince me they'll get it right the first time.

Thank you Randy for all the informative links. I REALLY appreciate it!!!

[Bogy4]

Anyone try to put their awning on yet? I'm fairly certain I'm missing the keder rail.

[RandyNH]

I must apologize, once I've started digging I have a hard time stopping until I've exhausted all paths I come across.

Doing so I've come across something else that concerns me and doesn't bode well.

The axle rating is for 3500 lbs, as Gail has pointed out, her trailer weighs in at 2400lbs empty at the axle, I'm guessing that she was connected to her TV so 10-15% was being carried by TV, I would guesstimate actual weight approx 2700lbs and 22 gal water for 2884lbs.

The tires that airstream mounts on the BC, from what I have seen, are Goodyear Assurance 225/55R18, there are two models ComforTred and All Season, the highest rated is 1653lbs each. Both models are P rated (or SL), therefore must be derated for trailer use, derating takes that to 1503lbs so two tires are 3006lbs and those are the higher rates ones, the others (ComforTred) are 2925lbs.

It seems they are the lower rated tires.

Tires LINK (note the oval)

Tire Specs LINK (I don't know if the link will survive)

This means that the GVWR for the BC should not be 3500lbs, as the tires are weaker than the axle, in the best situation the GVWR should be 2900lbs

I hope I'm incorrect, but it's what I've stumbled across in my readings. If someone can post a photo or the info on the tire sidewall that would help.

[Trae and Ann]

Ok we dropped off our BC today to get the fresh water tank replaced, black tank sensor fixed etc etc. but the interesting thing is we took a good long look at the tire/axle issue before heading out and there is really not much clearance. Strange thing is on the driver side the tire was noticeably much closer to the front of the wheel well than on the passenger side. No wear on passenger but the driver side which was closer showed wear to the wheel well. We have traveled probably an accumulation of 2000+ miles over 7 trips and have never had hardly any cargo other than a bed roll and some misc pots pans etc. tanks empty.. and that's it, so be careful!! not sure you can totally judge the problem occurring only when trailer is loaded down. Have about 5 issues including this that we are having worked thru. They seem pretty confident in fixing them all. Fingers crossed... I really want this to work out!

[Xrad13]

Originally Posted by RandyNH

I must apologize, once I've started digging I have a hard time stopping until I've exhausted all paths I come across.

Doing so I've come across something else that concerns me and doesn't bode well.

The axle rating is for 3500 lbs, as Gail has pointed out, her trailer weighs in at 2400lbs empty at the axle, I'm guessing that she was connected to her TV so 10-15% was being carried by TV, I would guesstimate actual weight approx 2700lbs and 22 gal water for 2884lbs.

The tires that airstream mounts on the BC, from what I have seen, are Goodyear Assurance 225/55R18, there are two models ComforTred and All Season, the highest rated is 1653lbs each. Both models are P rated (or SL), therefore must be derated for trailer use, derating takes that to 1503lbs so two tires are 3006lbs and those are the higher rates ones, the others (ComforTred) are 2925lbs.

It seems they are the lower rated tires.

Tires LINK (note the oval)

Tire Specs LINK (I don't know if the link will survive)

This means that the GVWR for the BC should not be 3500lbs, as the tires are weaker than the axle, in the best situation the GVWR should be 2900lbs

I hope I'm incorrect, but it's what I've stumbled across in my readings. If someone can post a photo or the info on the tire sidewall that would help.

Our Goodyear Assurance CS Fuel Max tires (255/55R18) are rated at 2171 pounds each.

[Gail Miller]

Originally Posted by RandyNH

I must apologize, once I've started digging I have a hard time stopping until I've exhausted all paths I come across.

Doing so I've come across something else that concerns me and doesn't bode well.

The axle rating is for 3500 lbs, as Gail has pointed out, her trailer weighs in at 2400lbs empty at the axle, I'm guessing that she was connected to her TV so 10-15% was being carried by TV, I would guesstimate actual weight approx 2700lbs and 22 gal water for 2884lbs.

The tires that airstream mounts on the BC, from what I have seen, are Goodyear Assurance 225/55R18, there are two models ComforTred and All Season, the highest rated is 1653lbs each. Both models are P rated (or SL), therefore must be derated for trailer use, derating takes that to 1503lbs so two tires are 3006lbs and those are the higher rates ones, the others (ComforTred) are 2925lbs.

It seems they are the lower rated tires.

Tires LINK (note the oval)

Tire Specs LINK (I don't know if the link will survive)

This means that the GVWR for the BC should not be 3500lbs, as the tires are weaker than the axle, in the best situation the GVWR should be 2900lbs

I hope I'm incorrect, but it's what I've stumbled across in my readings. If someone can post a photo or the info on the tire sidewall that would help.

My tires are Goodyear Assurance CS 255/55R18. Made in Chile. They say they are extra load, max load 2271 pounds. When I weighed my camper and TV, my front axle of my SUV carried 33.4% of the weight; my rear axle had 40.2% and my camper axle had 26.4%. According to the book that came with my camper, each axle should carry 34%. I'm sure I had a full tank of gas that day.

[Gail Miller]

Originally Posted by Gail Miller

My tires are Goodyear Assurance CS 255/55R18. Made in Chile. They say they are extra load, max load 2271 pounds. When I weighed my camper and TV, my front axle of my SUV carried 33.4% of the weight; my rear axle had 40.2% and my camper axle had 26.4%. According to the book that came with my camper, each axle should carry 34%. I'm sure I had a full tank of gas that day.

Also, my tires were manufactured in October 2015!

[Gail Miller]

Originally Posted by Gail Miller

Also, my tires were manufactured in October 2015!

I thought of something else. The BC brochure that I saw before I bought said the net carrying capacity was 915 pounds. The label on my camper says 780.

[RandyNH]

Originally Posted by Xrad13

Our Goodyear Assurance CS Fuel Max tires (255/55R18) are rated at 2171 pounds each.

Thank you. The airstream manual states that they are 225/55R18 and none of those were rated that high, so it's good to know they are really 255's

Edit - That might explain the current issue. With the tire being a 255 vs 225, which the manual states, it has an almost two inch larger diameter, so they probably had to increase the size to get an XL tire and forgot to account for the extra size or just figured there was enough clearance.

[RandyNH]

Originally Posted by Gail Miller

I thought of something else. The BC brochure that I saw before I bought said the net carrying capacity was 915 pounds. The label on my camper says 780.

That seems to be what happens on most trailers. The brochures are created in the beginning and based on a perfect world, then they build them and find out what the real world production weight of a base model is (the sticker weight) and then the owner finds out what the real real world number is at the weigh station, because the sticker number doesn't include options and accessories.

[Xrad13]

Originally Posted by Xrad13

Our Goodyear Assurance CS Fuel Max tires (255/55R18) are rated at 2171 pounds each.

Sorry about the typo. It is 2271 pounds as others have stated.