2017 Basecamp Issues

[Jazgrass]

Gail,
When you get your screen made I'd love to see it
Thanks
Jaz

[switz]

Only by completely sealing around the three fans at the upper cooling exhaust location does one force "ALL" of the cooling air to come in at the bottom air entrance and pass over the backside of whatever mechanism the existing refrigerator uses to cool food and exhaust the combustion gases from the propane. Our three fan modification was originally used with the stock Dometic ammonia based refrigerator. No more cooling of the food issues after the installation.

Now with a freon based Vitrifrigo refrigerator (model DP150iL), one has to tune the refrigerator temp selector to keep from freezing the food.

When removing the Dometic refrigeration equipment and reinstalling it in the same space, careful attention must be directed to the sealing gaskets so the byproducts of the propane combustion do not leak into the living space of the trailer, which could have deadly results.

One has to remember that Airstream sources everything from the lowest bidder, quality not withstanding.

[Rocinante]

It also seems self-defeating to have 3 fans, each in a different place. If you're gonna do 3 fans, have all 3 of them suck air into that space via one vent and blow out through another. Otherwise, the fans are all, to some degree, fighting each other and just making noise.

[Gail Miller]

Originally Posted by Jazgrass

Gail,
When you get your screen made I'd love to see it
Thanks
Jaz

I looked at that today. I opened the shower pass through door in the bathroom, closed the door and the fan sounds much better. I put my hand down by the open pass through door and I could definitely feel air being pulled into the bathroom. Worked a little bit on trying a screen, which I think will work. Heat index is 107 degrees right now, so I'm thinking on the screen design in the cool house :-) More on that later.

[switz]

In answer to a prior question, the marine Vitrifirigo refrigerators we installed have 12Vdc DanFoss freon compressors. They also come with a small inverter so they can run off of 120Vac when on shore power which then makes 12Vdc for the compressor. The same model compressor appears to have been used on both units. The smaller one in the 23D is model DP150iL that is a 5.3 cubic foot freezer and separate refrigerator drawing about 5.38 amps at 12Vdc and 0.76 amps when on 120Vac. The other in the Classic is model DP2600 which is roughly 8.1 cu ft with separate freezer and refrigerator. The power draw is identical.

[rmkrum]

Thanks for the good information. How much noise do these units make when they are running? My issue is the the propane fridge we have had a noisy fan, and I am wondering if the Vitrifrigo compressor is quieter than that.?

[switz]

The 23D installation has slightly more background noise due to the three computer cooling fans that cycle with the compressor. However, the sound is much less apparent than the refrigerators in our homes.

There is more apparent noise outside the 23D when standing by the two refrigerator vent doors than inside the trailer. There is virtually no noise from the compressor on the Classic when standing out side the compartment since no fan is installed due to the chimney.

Thinking about it, the two Maxxfan 7000-Ks on 20% speed probably generate the same noise level and they are nearly silent.

All that being said, at age 72+ I can hear the low frequencies better than the high frequencies (like the wife's voice ) and the compressor sound is not a bother or intrusive during conversations.

[ColoradoBCer]

I've read through the entire thread and made a mental note of every possible issue. Regardless, I went ahead and put money down on a 2017 BC with every option. I pick it up Thursday.

Damn The Torpedoes!

(This is my first post to the airforum. I recently sold my near mint '79 International Land Yacht. This is the first summer in 21 years that I haven't owned an Airstream. I've felt strangely unsettled. I'm confident in AS ability to make it right, if it ever goes wrong ---- or blah blah blah aluminum blinders.)

[RandyNH]

Originally Posted by ColoradoBCer

I've read through the entire thread and made a mental note of every possible issue. Regardless, I went ahead and put money down on a 2017 BC with every option. I pick it up Thursday.

Damn The Torpedoes!

(This is my first post to the airforum. I recently sold my near mint '79 International Land Yacht. This is the first summer in 21 years that I haven't owned an Airstream. I've felt strangely unsettled. I'm confident in AS ability to make it right, if it ever goes wrong ---- or blah blah blah aluminum blinders.)

The key to any purchase, do the research, know what you're getting into, be prepared, and then with all that knowledge say "screw it, I want it anyways"

Good Luck, and enjoy no matter what, they say the 2018s have it all worked out....

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by RandyNH

. . .
. . . they say the 2018s have it all worked out....

Including the fridge? Are the three noisy fans the "solution" there, or is there a better long-term fix?

Your solution of replacing your own fridge is admirable, but is AS going to pay you for this swap?



Thanks,

Peter

[Bborzell]

We are leaving Charleston this morning for Jackson Center. We will camp at JC Thursday night and undergo the newly designed fridge fix on Friday.

Not clear on what it consists of yet. Will know by Friday morning.

BTW, we have been on the road for 6 days. Other than the fridge fighting the 90+ heat trying to stay below 43-44 degrees and us having to schlep the Pelican cooler in and out of the Basecamp in order to sleep at night, everything has been performing fine.

Would be nice if AS gets the fridge working and agrees to ship our Pelican home for us so that we can continue our next 3,000 miles without constantly tripping over it.

[OTRA15]

As you have reported, those three fans seem to be pretty noisy. May I suggest calling JC ASAP proactively and demand that they get quiet computer fans, which have been part of dozens of fridge fixes here for years, on all kinds of AS?

"The squeaky wheel gets the grease!"

Good luck.

Peter

[RandyNH]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

Including the fridge? Are the three noisy fans the "solution" there, or is there a better long-term fix?

Your solution of replacing your own fridge is admirable, but is AS going to pay you for this swap?

The "they" I refer to is the people receiving new trailers... I don't believe it is the fix, as long as it exhausts hot air into an enclosed area, the "fresh air" intake will continue to get muddied with it inhibiting the process. The ammonia fridges require a fairly specific configuration and most trailers can't meet it, which is why many different model trailers have fridge problems.

Hahaha... No more than they would pay for someone to swap out their GYMs to Michelin.

Honestly, I would love to see trailer manufacturers offer an empty shell as part of their lineup, they could produce them pretty fast and cheap, then people could install the components they prefer, without having to pay for crappy ones in the beginning. Component manufacturers would also start building better products, when they couldn't just build crap in large quantities for OEM.

[Troutboy]

I love the empty shell idea! Sounds like a business opportunity to me.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

As you have reported, those three fans seem to be pretty noisy. May I suggest calling JC ASAP proactively and demand that they get quiet computer fans, which have been part of dozens of fridge fixes here for years, on all kinds of AS?

"The squeaky wheel gets the grease!"

Good luck.

Peter

Hi

Be careful of any fan that does not have a back pressure chart on it. Be doubly careful of any fan with super duper numbers sold by some guy named Bob on eBay. You can have crap fans that are noisy, you rarely see high capacity fans that are super quiet.

I have not seen the fans AS is using and can't say at this point that I have a lot of confidence that they fully understand all this .....

The grubby details:

Fans have a CFM rating. They move some number of cubic feet of air per minute. It's not at all hard to find YouTube videos showing people testing this. Often the fans they are looking at come up short. (They bought them from Bob on eBay ...)

If you restrict the flow of air a bit, the CFM moved by the fan decreases. Depending on the blade design, it either decreases very quickly or even faster than that. A centrifugal blower is better for back pressure than a blade fan. That's why your HVAC at home uses a blower.

Back pressure increases as you try to force more air through a space. How much it increases depends on a bunch of nasty details and wonderful terms like "laminar flow". Simply put, smooth straight tubes of large cross section are a better bet than twisty irregular passages.

Lots of details ....

Bob

[Gail Miller]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

Be careful of any fan that does not have a back pressure chart on it. Be doubly careful of any fan with super duper numbers sold by some guy named Bob on eBay. You can have crap fans that are noisy, you rarely see high capacity fans that are super quiet.

I have not seen the fans AS is using and can't say at this point that I have a lot of confidence that they fully understand all this .....

The grubby details:

Fans have a CFM rating. They move some number of cubic feet of air per minute. It's not at all hard to find YouTube videos showing people testing this. Often the fans they are looking at come up short. (They bought them from Bob on eBay ...)

If you restrict the flow of air a bit, the CFM moved by the fan decreases. Depending on the blade design, it either decreases very quickly or even faster than that. A centrifugal blower is better for back pressure than a blade fan. That's why your HVAC at home uses a blower.

Back pressure increases as you try to force more air through a space. How much it increases depends on a bunch of nasty details and wonderful terms like "laminar flow". Simply put, smooth straight tubes of large cross section are a better bet than twisty irregular passages.

Lots of details ....

Bob

Airstream is supposed to ship fans for my refrigerator to my dealer. I don't have a lot of confidence that they are going to be 'super' fans. Should I pick them up and inspect them (show photos to forum members) before I have them installed??

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by Gail Miller

Airstream is supposed to ship fans for my refrigerator to my dealer. I don't have a lot of confidence that they are going to be 'super' fans. Should I pick them up and inspect them (show photos to forum members) before I have them installed??

This is just a suggestion, based on my use of computer fans in another trailer, so YMMV.
The fans are noisy at their rated voltage, but two fans running in series will move as much air at half voltage, and probably a quarter the noise, and the same amp draw, as a single fan running at full voltage.
Something to think about, anyway.

[Troutboy]

Originally Posted by Gail Miller

Airstream is supposed to ship fans for my refrigerator to my dealer. I don't have a lot of confidence that they are going to be 'super' fans. Should I pick them up and inspect them (show photos to forum members) before I have them installed??

Gail, they will be the stick Chinese fans AS uses that are loud. I can look up the size again, I think they are 90mm. Or they could be 120mm. I looked them up previously, they are $5 fans that AS uses and must have bought in bulk for much cheaper. Think about that for a second, for $10 more AS could use a top of the line fan in a premium trailer..::

These are standard sizes and the good computer fans that are much quieter cost about $15-20 each.

If you are not handy, you might consider buying the fans and bringing them to the dealer and asking them to install your own quiet fans instead of the loud noisy stock fans.

Trust me, three of the stock fans AS uses will keep you up at night and drive your mad...:.

If you want suggestions in what fan to purchase, let me know and I'll pos up the info. Or feel free to PM me.

Thanks

[Gail Miller]

Originally Posted by Troutboy

Gail, they will be the stick Chinese fans AS uses that are loud. I can look up the size again, I think they are 90mm. Or they could be 120mm. I looked them up previously, they are $5 fans that AS uses and must have bought in bulk for much cheaper. Think about that for a second, for $10 more AS could use a top of the line fan in a premium trailer..::

These are standard sizes and the good computer fans that are much quieter cost about $15-20 each.

If you are not handy, you might consider buying the fans and bringing them to the dealer and asking them to install your own quiet fans instead of the loud noisy stock fans.

Trust me, three of the stock fans AS uses will keep you up at night and drive your mad...:.

If you want suggestions in what fan to purchase, let me know and I'll pos up the info. Or feel free to PM me.

Thanks

I sent you a PM ... I will pick the ones up that AS sends my dealer, then order better ones for them to install after seeing the size, etc. Thank you.

[switz]

I put three of these fans into the blanking plate of our 23D refrigerator upper vent opening. Noise is negligible.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1