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Mixter · 05-27-2014, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chilipepper

Alan, where do you find the giant pipe grommet and what was the approximate cost? I've looked at the local Ace hardware and they really didn't have anything quite like that. Did it come with the aluminum flashing too or was that added? Is it 3" ID?

Im interested in this too... I'll be reconnecting my waste lines soon and havent been thrilled with the original design. This looks like a great way to do it. Any help is appreciated!

Thanks!
Mic

mccrosti · 05-28-2014, 07:29 PM

I am doing the same job. I've replaced the last four feet of frame, Black Tank, Recreated a pan like the original, and this weekend installed the floor from the inside. I did mine in three pieces. two "wings" and one middle. It was a fair bit of work getting the floor joints to fit tightly. I used penetrating resin epoxy and 15 elevator bolts around the perimeter of the C channel. I fabricated a piece of aluminum drip shield as well, which will serve as the connection point to the bumper trunk lid, and like Ryan I will run the ABS straight through the bumper trunk floor. I used self tapping screws on the rest of the floor. What did I learn from this experience? That It's a difficult job to do by yourself, and that a 4" hole saw and a tired old guy are not a good mix I need to listen to myself . That I haven't had stitches in like 20 years... Sorry about jumping in here, hope you don't mind.

TennTex · 05-28-2014, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chilipepper

Alan, where do you find the giant pipe grommet and what was the approximate cost? I've looked at the local Ace hardware and they really didn't have anything quite like that. Did it come with the aluminum flashing too or was that added? Is it 3" ID?

I'm working on my black tank now and was also wondering if you used straps and the pan to install the black tank? Also, are you going to route your dump connection through the main frame rail aft of your power hookup? I've looked at a few threads that went that route and I like the concept but wondering if I'm missing something there with the frame integrity by doing so? Seems like it wouldn't be an issues since it is behind the body mounting point.

Thanks!

I got the grommet from one of my favorite websites: McMaster-Carr
McMaster gives you all the specs you need to make the measurements. I made the surround from alclad; makes for an easier fit when lining it all up through the wall. Btw, Ryan, looking at your (cool) blog, the "added crossmember" looks like it will block the dump pipe. Am I seeing that wrong?

The galvanized box with the fore and aft angle underneath it are the only support for the black tank. As I mentioned, the box was necessary for me to seal off the belly since my dump valves operate through the rear floor.

My dump connection will be through the floor of the trunk, as original. Through the side frame rail should work (see Top's thread on "Abby…").

Mixter - I just wanted to keep the black tank, tie in grey tanks, and still be able to completely water/vermin-proof the rear. The belly pan runs under the aluminum angle attached to the bottom of the vertical skin, so there is no opening to the belly space from the back. So far, I'm happy with how it turned out.

McCrosti - A lot of us can commiserate on that Last Four Feet. Very clean, precise-looking work you've done - congrats! Sorry about the hole saw mishap. Keep us posted on your progress.

Much fun,
Alan

TennTex · 05-29-2014, 07:24 AM

mccrosti - how did you get that new curved c-channel?

Mixter · 05-29-2014, 09:56 AM

Nice find on the grommet. Thanks TennTex!

mccrosti · 05-29-2014, 04:45 PM

Hey Ten, you buy it from Out of doors mart. For roughly $60.00 what I liked about it is that it isn't a C channel, it's more of an F channel that fully encloses the edge of your floor.

chilipepper · 05-29-2014, 05:06 PM

mccrosti, thanks for those pictures. I'm still worried about sliding the sheet in whole. Your cleats and splices must be just inside of the main frame rails? How wide of a cleat did you go with? I do like the clean look of the original c-channel replacement. I did look at those on out of doors mart but was a little lery that it wouldn't fit the '71 due to it having the "F" that wasn't the way the original one was! I'm glad to see that it worked out for you. Did you have any issues getting it to fit in place and did it make the rear sub-floor harder to put in? I suppose you had the luxury of picking it up rather than having to have it shipped. I think shipping would be the deal breaker for me.

Alan, thanks for the McMaster link! I'm also a big fan of McMaster but I guess I just didn't look there for that grommet. I guess I had hardware store on the brain when I was thinking about it.

Good eye on the 'new' rear cross-member. I was planning originally to see if I could get the dump connection to drop down and out the bottom just in front of the cross member. I guess I'll still look at that but in the mean time I have been looking at other options and am liking the way some of the others look. I also think that running it out into the trunk and then through the rear frame rail is the 'cleanest' way to do it on all accounts. It is easily accessible without having to get under the trailer as well as it might help keep unwanted crud out of the trunk too. So I guess I'll see a little better once I get my grey tanks and the black tank pan constructed. Then I'll have to decide if it will stay or if it will go.

I might be able to move it to the bottom of the lower angle and get away with having it there.

mccrosti · 05-29-2014, 06:41 PM

Hey chilli,

Adding the F channel which curls around the edge of the floor was a no brainer for me. Was it more difficult than the C that sits on top, probably but it was worth it.
I did not use cleats. I added a couple of fabricated outriggers to either side, than cut the tolerances between boards very tightly. The outriggers are just rear of the battery box and water heater. I just used 1 x 1 angle. One thing I would highly recommend is to weld a 2x2 angle across the frame rails directly under the rear skin, this way you will have something to through bolt into that will provide much more stability and strength. I por 15d the heck outta everything even the pan. What amazed me was that with all this work I figured I removed 70 lbs of junk the PO used to try and shore the rear end up.

I won't be going back to original again with the sanitary line. I will come out of the tank and 45 though the bumper trunk floor. I don't like the idea of cutting another hole in the frame. I am also going to add a 30 amp plug just aft of the water heater and will plug in my shore power to it. Also adding a 20 amp curtesy plug to the other side so wecan have power under the awning. Water will come in just forward of the heater that's about it for now.

Chuck · 05-29-2014, 07:24 PM

The pics on that C (f) channel show it as 5/8ths; I thought our early 70's had 3/4" plywood.
I suppose it would be impossible to do a 1 piece floor while also attempting to retrofit that new channel, as well....thoughts?

mccrosti · 05-30-2014, 03:59 AM

The C channel is 3/4. I'll take a picture of a piece I have next to a ruler later. OODM has a couple of C channels.

mccrosti · 05-30-2014, 04:02 AM

I gave a lot of thought to one piece, in fact I have one that I am now using for a workable

. I didn't want to wrestle with something that large heavy and awkward. I suppose if there was a way to slide it in under the skin it might be doable. Also meant to say what I used was 22/32 not 3/4.

TennTex · 05-30-2014, 04:32 PM

Using the "edge-wrap" c-channel would require piecing in the floor from inside. Would likely require a shallow rabbet on the lower edge of the floor. I probably would give this more consideration if I were ever to do it again (insert maniacal laughter here), from looking at mccrosti's work and the improved c-channel as a result. A lot of other threads' posts question the strength of pieced-together floor; hard to estimate this with monocoque design, etc. I might add full outriggers under the side pieces?

I put 3/8" ss bolts where the c-channel, aft crossmember, and frame rails overlap, but I added a 1/4" plate, 6" long and cut to fit in the c-channel to beef up that connection a bit. Added screws through both ends of the plate, as well. This would lay across the plywood joint on mccrosti's floor and might help structurally. Just a suggestion.

Enjoy the process…
Alan

mccrosti · 05-31-2014, 11:55 AM

Hey Alan, I'll take another look in 20 years or so ( add my own maniacal laughter) . I did weld angle aft of both the water Heater and the battery box. The box that the black tank sits in also adds strength as the floor is about a 1/16 off the top of the edge. Also, the factory used approximately ONE bolt at each corner, then tiny little wood screws to hold the c channel on top of the floor. I'm reusing the old tub and sink stuff so I am adding no weight to the back end . I'm satisfied that it's gonna be fine. At least in my lifetime

Once I get the new belly pan in it'll be "above the floor" for me.

chilipepper · 05-31-2014, 02:48 PM

mccrosti, do you have any shots of the bracing you added prior to laying the sheets in? I'm seriously considering this method since I was trying to put some beef on the frame and shell to see if I would be able to slide the sheet in. I just don't think I can get that much separation. It's seems like to splice it would be much better to have the improved c (or F) channel to strengthen that outer edge. I'm sort of scared to enquire to out of doors mart to see what they will charge to ship that piece!

mccrosti · 05-31-2014, 07:12 PM

Hey chili I will post some tomorrow for you. I am on my iPhone tonight but don't have access to the photos.

mccrosti · 05-31-2014, 07:35 PM

Chili.
I fired up my computer. These were added as soon as I welded the frame, early in the project. I wound up removing more floor. Welding is not my forte (as you can see). One shoes the support prior to por 15 the other after. I notice that the frame rails do not look straight in these pics, but I assure you they are straight and level.

chilipepper · 05-31-2014, 08:59 PM

Awesome and thanks for posting those. It still just amazes me how much variation there is in the same trailer and from the same year. What is your manufacturer date from the front plate on the lower road side? Mine is 8-1970. I do not have the battery box as other 1971's have. My vertical ribs in the rear are also different from yours.

I put about 12 hours in on mine today. Finished Por-15 on the frame. Cut a template for the rear floor. I'm hopefully going to make an attempt at a trial fit tomorrow if I can get some extra help here and we'll see if we can split things enough to get the rear floor in as a single piece. If not then I'll be looking at some cutting and splicing. I was going to install the grey tanks today. I received them yesterday from VTS and unfortunately they forgot one spin fitting on the connection between the two tanks. The plans had it circles and written on there that it should be installed but it was missed for one reason or another. I'm sure they will make it right but it throws off my timing a bit.

I also stripped some old Vulkem from around the road side windows to re-seal those while I was waiting for the paint to dry. I also think I'm going to grind off the crossmember that I installed in the rear and move it. As Alan pointed out it will interfere with my black dump. I'm not sure what I was thinking but I'll fix it and make it work. I think I'll move it to the bottom angle and that way I'll have a place to rivet the rodent barrier to! I might weld on a couple of other outrigger mounting points in case I have to cut and split the rear floor.

As I'm bouncing from one end to another I was working on reinstalling the fresh water tank. There was 1" plywood surrounding the tank originally. It seems like a 1" closed cell foam board would work just as well for that and cut a good chunk of weight off?

Well too much fun for one day. We'll see what happens tomorrow. Damn this is a lot of work?

chilipepper · 05-31-2014, 09:02 PM

McCrosti, btw hole saws suck. Sorry to hear of your misfortune. There is always something right?

TennTex · 05-31-2014, 09:12 PM

That looks great - I get the added angles now; I was a bit slow getting the description. Structural strength should be no problem there. What did you do at the corners?

I'm "all inside" now except for some window issues. So glad to be out from under that thing with stuff falling in my face.

New water heater, furnace, and vent fans in, inner skins all back in, finishing up pex lines, ready to paint walls and reinstall bath. (Does anybody else get this weird euphoria after getting a part of the process back in place?)

mccrosti · 06-02-2014, 07:09 PM

The hole saw is just a dumb tool the dumb a$$ wielding the drill is another matter altogether. I've been fooling with power tools long enough to know better. But I appreciate your sentiment. Chuck, you are right OODM shows that channel as 5/8ths. The 22/32's fit perfectly, so I don't know it works, and it ain't going anywhere.I thought I'd post a couple of before pics. I moved all of my pics onto this computer so if you'd like to see anything, just let me know.

Also, when i got into the tank, it had 1" foam stuffed around the edges, I figured it was a good idea, so the new setup was the same. Can you see the crack in the old tank....and my wife would blame ME for the odor....