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Old 01-18-2014, 12:38 PM   #15
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The best insulation is a combination of foam and radiation barrier. Also radiation barrier does not work well when the surfaces touch another object.

Perry
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Old 01-18-2014, 12:50 PM   #16
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I used this. Based on recommendations here, I signed up for email notifications of sales. Their prices are all over the map and there are good deals if you have time to wait.

Details on installation are here, starting about post 144.
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Old 01-18-2014, 01:03 PM   #17
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I've looked into Prodex but am always confused about how to buy it.
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Old 01-18-2014, 01:27 PM   #18
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Question: what is being reflectixed inside the skin? I know it has insulating capability due to trapped air, but what need is there for the reflective coating if there is no light? I have it on all my windows and it makes a huge difference. I attribute a large part of this to the light reflecting properties. I had initially planned on using it between skins, but since have been doubting it's benefit in that application.
I have spent most of the morning reading through another thread on foam insulation pros and cons. Some there stated the importance of a getting the perfect seal. If that is your aim, then this stuff is ideal because it is easy to work, shape, and tape.
It appears that there are many philosophies on insulating. So to simplify, I have broken it down myself into two basic mentalities. In my opinion, when it comes to outlook, you are either a sealer or a breather. In my opinion there will always be moisture inside due to condensation and leaks. So rather than sealing in, you must also consider allowing some airflow for proper dissipation. Not saying that sealing is all bad, just feel there should be a small fan/ exhaust run periodically to alleviate for optimal maintenance.
There also others who do not necessarily fit perfectly into either of my categories, such as product lovers/haters: that are sold on the product without understanding application or spread the myths and anecdotes they heard about horrific consequence as their own. Also airstreamophiles who would not dare to deviate one iota from original specs.
Now this is intended as tongue and cheek, and merely theoretical, as I have next to no practical experience with insulation. Heck I'm still toying with the idea of using sheep wool. So I'm really not trying to throw stones. And in case you haven't guessed, I'm more of a breather. But at the end of the day, I won't change anything without good reason. I experiment more with thought than practice.
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Old 01-18-2014, 01:49 PM   #19
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Won't the sheep have a hard time breathing between the walls?

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Old 01-18-2014, 01:52 PM   #20
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There has been quite a bit of insulation discussion on this forum. I summarized my reasoning for Prodex and a double-layered installation method using air gaps that allow some ventilating air flow -- starting in this post, which has links to three very good threads on the subject. There are pics of the installation method later in the thread. We're happy with the results.

We did cut leftover prodex as window covers and they make an incredible difference.
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Old 01-18-2014, 02:04 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65CV View Post
There has been quite a bit of insulation discussion on this forum. I summarized my reasoning for Prodex and a double-layered installation method using air gaps that allow some ventilating air flow -- starting in this post, which has links to three very good threads on the subject. There are pics of the installation method later in the thread. We're happy with the results.



We did cut leftover prodex as window covers and they make an incredible difference.

Could you redo the link to "this post" it doesn't auto load.
Thanks
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Old 01-18-2014, 02:08 PM   #22
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The silver duct tape is good for sealing edges. You don't want to seal at the bottom because you want any water to run down to the C-channel. Radiation is radiation. Light is radiation. Heat radiation is also light but at a wavelength your eyes can't see. So the aluminum reflects the heat energy in the IR or in the visible. Heat hits the aluminum coating and is then reflected back to where it came from. The aluminum heats up since it does not reflect all the heat. Since the emissivity (IR reflectance) is poor, not much heat is radiated from the other side. If it is touching something it conducts that heat to whatever it touches. If it touches the aluminum skin the heat goes right through it. If there is air between the coating and skin the air is much worse at conducting heat than the skin is. It helps if there is an insulator between the front and back layer of aluminum coating and that is why they put bubbles or pockets between the front and back surface. So now you have that thin layer of not very good insulation, if the front and back of the stuff are touching something. If you put foam in there as well you at least have some real insulation in addition to a non-perfect radiation barrier that is thermally shorted wherever it touches something. You also have to consider that when new, the aluminum will reflect about 90% of the heat energy. As it gets dirty and mold grows on it etc, the reflectance goes down and eventually you will have only the R-value of the air pockets between the front and back surface which is not good. So you really want some real insulation in there to reduce the conduction of heat. The radiation barrier reduces the heat load the conventional insulation has to deal with. There is room for two layers of 1/2" RMAX and one layer of radiation barrier. The prodex may only allow one layer of RMAX. So now you know the physics of what you are doing. Radiation barrier is designed to reduce the heat energy or temperature difference that your conventional radiation has to deal with. Lets say you put this stuff in your attic. You just staple it to the ceiling joists and most of the material has air on both sides which is what you want. This may reduce the heat in the attic so now you are dealing with temperature of 100F instead of 140F. The heat conduction through the conventional insulation increases with the temperature difference between the hot side and the cold side.



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Old 01-18-2014, 02:40 PM   #23
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Perry is the RMAX you spoke of the polyisocyanurate (sp?) insulation and if so how do you get it to 'bend' around the ceiling curvature? Also would you apply directly to the back (in contact with) Prodex?
Thanks,
Barry
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Old 01-18-2014, 02:44 PM   #24
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Could you redo the link to "this post" it doesn't auto load.
Thanks
Lee
Funny, it loads for me. Different browser maybe.

it's post 103 here:
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f109...n-88673-2.html
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Old 01-18-2014, 03:00 PM   #25
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I would not use adhesive with radiation barrier just tape any seams to reduce air movement. If it touches the RMAX then so be it. Yes RMAX is the polyisocyanurate foam with aluminum on front and back. With the RMAX you slit the back side as many times as you need to get it to conform with the curves. I expect you would need wedge shaped cuts like an orange to make it fit the compound curves. You can cut it all the way through and do it piece meal if you want then tape the seams with the silver duct tape. You can do the same with the radiation barrier.


Roof Insulation Wall Insulation Polyiso Specialty Products | Rmax

Tape

Nashua Tape FlexFix 1-7/8 in. x 361 ft. Flex Duct Tape-684098 at The Home Depot#

Here is the radiation barrier stuff

Shop Reflectix 25-ft x 48-in Reflective Insulation at Lowes.com=

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Old 01-18-2014, 03:40 PM   #26
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I use Reflectix on every single job. I swear by it. Heat from the outside is reflected back out and cool from the inside is reflected back in. It works in reverse too. Highly effective stuff. I wish it was around when I did my own trailer. I believe in this product so much that I am considering gutting my entire trailer out to do it.

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For the end caps, I cover them before installing them. Care must be taken to not put the insulation where the fiberglass meets the rib. The thickness of insulation will effect getting it back into proper alignment. I use a cabinet grade spray contact cement to adhere it to the end cap. All seams get covered with aluminum tape.
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The Reflectix acts like a big decal if you spray the skin with the contact cement, allow it to dry, then spray the back side and put the wet glue into the dry. Cutting things precisely is very important. I go right up to the ribs. Any seams are covered with aluminum tape.
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I then do the wiring.
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Next I install a second layer held behind the backside of the ribs. The aluminum tape covers all the ribs and gaps and makes it into a big ballon. The air gap in between the two layers is about 1 1/8". Once the first layer goes in I have to work inside the trailer with all the windows open since the heat from my shop light builds up quickly.
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Old 01-18-2014, 04:37 PM   #27
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Next I install a second layer held behind the backside of the ribs. The aluminum tape covers all the ribs and gaps and makes it into a big ballon. The air gap in between the two layers is about 1 1/8". Once the first layer goes in I have to work inside the trailer with all the windows open since the heat from my shop light builds up quickly.[/QUOTE]

Frank,
See if I got this, you glue first layer to the outside skin, then tape the second layer using the backside of the ribs to hold tape which then holds second layer. This gives you the 1 1/8" gap? Wiring is sandwiched between the two layers?
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Old 01-18-2014, 04:39 PM   #28
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yep. So far the results have been stellar. I look forward to seeing how it worked in 40 years.
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