Prep for Zolatone

[fireflyinva]

Now that we are taking most stuff out of the trailer, we're considering redoing zolatone. I'm not sure if we will try to spray it ourselves, but for certain, we will do the prep work.

So, I'm looking for guidance for my prepwork.

Some background...Our trailer has a layer of latex over the zolatone. I already removed all layers from the kitchen cabinet, where it all was so crudded over that it was peeling off. It was hard to remove the zolatone layer, not so much due to product (strip ease and citrus remover had same results) but in terms of the elbow grease required. If removing all layers is required, I may not use zolatone at all, for all the effort that would take.

I researched online, read here--and I get two conflicting sets of advice. One school says to use sandpaper to cut into the latex and then just to spray on the zolatone on top of that. Another school says completely remove the latex layer by using solvents. I have tried a number of solvents, but haven't found anything that just removes the latex in any considerable fashion. So, if solvents is the route, which one?

I also looked through zolatone's application instructions. They say that a layer of acrylic primer is necessary on top of other layers of paint! More layers???

Has anyone done this (zolatone over latex?)--if so, what were your experiences and lessons learned?

Mary

[Ken J]

Mary

I've done a lot of research on this and decided that the zolatone was beyond my abilities - my understanding is that it takes special equipment and you have to know what your doing to apply.

I would think at a minimum you need to remove the latex paint - the original zolatone would make a great base for new zolatone it you go that route.

Erica - can't remember her last name, nor her website - but she sells Airstreams in Texas - did it last summer on a Bambi - she took to a body shop friend, shot the zolatone, but had to have her professional friend help her out.

So it can be done - this is something I haven't decided yet what to paint my interior with yet - maybe you can/will find something out that will sway me to use it, as I really like the stuff, very durable etc, but as I said I kinda gave up on it after talking to some paint professional types who are familer with zolatone - its pretty expensive stuff, so you don't want to mess it up

Let me know what you think

Ken

[mbatm01]

Mary,

I just completed painting my 63 Safari - which had latex over the zolatone. I used the Citristrip (SP?) from Home Depot and it worked great - took most of the zolatone off also - right down to the aluminum in places.
Since I was doing a shell off floor replacement, my interior was removed, and I was able to lay my interior sheets on the driveway and applied the stripper with a roller. It worked better with no wind and warmer temps. I used a metal putty knife to scrape off the gummed up paint and then cleaned them.
As far as applying Zolatone goes - after researching on this site and others - I decided not to use it. It was a lot of money, somewhat technical to apply, and not really worth the effort and expense. Primarily because I am not doing a mint restoration, and because I did not want to make a mistake on the colors or application - pretty expensive learning process. The automotive primers were expensive also.
I went to my Sherwin Williams dealer here in town and told him what I was doing. He recommended cleaning the skin with a non-sudsing cleaner like CLR, and then using a primer that they use when painting aluminum siding - sorry I forget the name, but it was about $30 bucks a gallon. On top of that I rolled thier highest quality exterior latex - lots of color options and around $40/gallon.
I used 2 gallons of primer, and 1.5 gallons paint for my 22' safari. That stuff really has adhered well - I have some overspray that has been tough to remove. I sprayed the primer and rolled the paint to get some texture.
Hope this helps.

Kevin

[Ken J]

Kevin

Sounds like you came to the same conclusion as I. Would really like to use the Zolatone, but also found it could be very costly/difficult if I mess it up.

What kind of sprayer did you use for the primer?

Ken

[fireflyinva]

Just for what it's worth, I probably won't be doing the painting myself, I'm just looking into the prep work. As I've mentioned, I don't want to use strippers and that probably be a deal breaker for me, since I have some experience on what kind of mess that would involve.

Zolatone's area distributor (who won't sell to me, fwiw) indicated that spraying zolatone on top of zolatone is a common practice. He wasn't sure about spraying latex, or whether a primer layer makes a difference (obviously, he wasn't a technical expert on this).

Last night it struck me that, since the latex is soft, I could probably remove it sufficiently with a power sander, leaving the base zolatone satisfactorily scratched. This is much prefereable to using chemical strippers. Any thoughts?

[Ken J]

Mary

I would think that would work - I just think it will more more work than strippers though. I, like Kevin, am using Citrus Stripper - I don't think its as toxic as other strippers, although I still plan to wear a mask - I've got my lower panels out, so I can do those outside the trailer too.

Ken

[fireflyinva]

I think if there is nothing inside your trailer, stripping with the chemical stuff makes sense. We're planning to only remove the gauchos, the kitchen and bath cabinets. That leave the walls, fridge, dresser, and closets. I can mask these for painting, but most strippers will disolve the plastic tarps we use (except EZ Strip, which is milder). Moreover, the strippers, I found, had uneven effects, eating clear to the aluminum in places, only halfway in other places. I ended up having to devote a huge effort to cleaning up with wire brushes and steel wool to clean up the stubborn bits.

Facing that kind of effort just doesn't seem worth it all.

I am thinking of contacting the company on this. Since there doesn't seem to be any authoritative answer from "approved applicators," maybe my best bet is talking to their technical representative. I worked in high school & college for Cabot Stains--and I remember fielding calls like this all the time (and transferring them, so please don't ask me about staining!). Can the industrial paint manufacturing business be so different?

Mary

[Ken J]

Mary

I did talk to a tech type guy - if I remember, the folks that spray zolatone are supposed to go to a class to learn how to use it.

Not trying to sound overly negative about the whole thing, I just decided for me given it takes some techique to apply, the fact that they recommend a fresh air breathing type mask, I decided it was beyond what I wanted to do.

On the other hand you mentioned that you want to have someone do it for you - you should be able to call your paint dealer that carries zolatone and they should be able to tell you someone who could spray it for you. I would just have them prep the surface. I do think you gonna need to take the latex off because its water based, zolatone is oil based and the two don't mix. They do make a water based product too that you can check into - but its not the same as whats in your trailer - if you want to keep things original.

Ken J.

[fireflyinva]

I really can't afford to have anyone else do the prep work. I'm afraid I'm in a circumstance of DIY or don't do at all.

Your point about spraying it is understood. I was aware of the advice for an external air supply. I also am quite familiar with the necessary equipment from my long-ago work in stains. I am also aware that their products are also available water and automotive formulations (the later being more readily available).

Some lessons I learned when I worked at the stain company--Oil paint can be painted over latex. However this is not usually advised since oil paint tends to separate from latex because the nature of oil paint is to become harder than the paint underneath. Depending on the oil paint involved, this tendency can be fully controlled by using the correct primer. I suspect the indication of primers for painted surface is intended for this kind of application, but I want to verify this with an authoritative source.

By the way, latex is really not a water based product. Instead, it is a polymerized emulsion that is water soluble when wet, but not when dry. For instance, have you ever painted for a long time had your paint brush gum up? That is paint that has gone out of emulsion and essentially dried on the brush.

At this point, I think my only choice is to speak to Zolatone directly. Will try Monday.

Mary

[Ken J]

Mary

Thanks for the info-I learn something new every day.

Let us know what you find out

Ken J.

[early]

Thnaks for the paint tips Mary. I've been wandering for two years where to by emulsion paint. I hear them say emulsion all the time on the bbc chanel. I just thought it was a british thing. Glad to know I've been using it for years.LOL Dawn

[fireflyinva]

I finally got around to calling Zolatone today...

In a nutshell, the guy there emphasized I should not try to remove the old latex paint. All formulations of their paint can be applied over latex. He suggested two approaches:

"Guaranteed never to peel method": Apply a layer of Zolatone primer SP203 (No prep work necessary), follow with Zolatone.

"Never heard of the paint ever failing method": Lightly rough up the old latex with steel wool or sandpaper. Don't go overboard, just get it scratched. Follow with Zolatone.

They fellow said that the Zolatone paint is rather flexible in its composition and it adheres particularly tenaciously (I told him about stripping it off the cabinet and he found my efforts amusing). So, even the oil based paint works surprisingly well over latex.

These methods work with both acrylic and oil formulations of Zolatone interior paint. He urged me to note that he has no clue about what's in the automotive formulation of Zolatone. It seems like that might be another company.

Mary

[markdoane]

Originally Posted by fireflyinva

These methods work with both acrylic and oil formulations of Zolatone interior paint. He urged me to note that he has no clue about what's in the automotive formulation of Zolatone. It seems like that might be another company.

Mary

I think there is a different 'automotive' zolatone, but I think you talked to the right ones, the 'architectural' zolatone guys.

[fireflyinva]

Yes, the fellow said that the "architectural" paint would work. He brought up the subject of the "automotive" paint, but it was just kind of wierd. It sounds like it may have been a division of the company that broke off under bad circumstances. Anyways, it came across in those hushed tones folks use to talk of the dead. Our local distribution company also mentioned the automotive paint, remarking only that it wasn't as good a paint (?) and more expensive (??). The Zolatone guy didn't make any remarks like that, just wanted to clarify the kind of paint I wanted to use.

Mary

[Ken J]

My concern would be the quality of the latex - you just don't know what some one slapped on there - then you put good paint on it and it starts peeling - just my two cents worth I would strip the latex

Ken J.

[fireflyinva]

Just for the record, stripping was the one thing the guy kept emphasizing that I shouldn't do--almost to the point where I got the feeling that stripping may be adverse to the Zolatone application. If you really wonder about the quality of paint, then the answer would be to prime it, which will neutralize the latex and guarantee your results. He stated twice, though, that this wasn't neccesary and that in all his career, he'd never heard of Zolatone peeling on latex.

I suppose this seems wierd, but feel free to call them at 1 888-ZOLATONE. The guy was very nice and friendly. I doubt the company would knowingfully give bad advice--and expect that they understand what works best, even if it is counter to instinct.

Mary