paint went tacky

[InsideOut]

Originally Posted by Sixty3TW4US

Zolatone is NOT user friendly, it is a commerical product designed to be used by an experienced applicator. I believe it can only be applied by spray application using special equipment most people don't have at home. If you have knowlege of painting cars you should have no problems, you need to know your limits.
I believe it is quite expensive, but there is nothing us ASers won't do for our AS. I would like to hear from someone who has applied Zolatone in their AS.

We did it in our '56 Safari ourselves - you don't have to be an professional to use it - it's actually quite fool-proof if you follow the directions. It does have to be spray applied, can be somewhat difficult to find and is not cheap - but our results are excellent! All who have seen it have admired the end result...

Check out posts #269 thru 292 in my "It's a Girl!!!" thread

Shari

[Sixty3TW4US]

InsideOut, Congrats!! Looks great, i would recomend anyone doing a Zolatone to view your post. The post #271-275, #287, #292 were especially interesting. You strick me as a person who will tackle most any project, get in and get it done. I believe your skill level is above most DIY,ers. You scored that pressure pot for only 65 bucks!!

My hat's off to you Fantastic job. Would you do that to a trailer that has the cabs etc. still in it?

[InsideOut]

Thanks Sixty3...we have tackled much more than we anticipated with this project! But it's like eating an elephant...just one bite at a time. Being a commercial interior designer (Inside) and my husband an architect (Out) we have specified Zolatone and seen it applied on projects, but never even so much as used a pressure pot to paint anything for ourselves before, we are very pleased with the results. Our skills of actually "doing things ourselves" is no different than anybody else's...

As far as spraying a trailer with the cabinets still in it...yes, but it would take a LOT of fastidious masking first. It took two of us all day to mask the empty trailer...I would plan on 2 or 3 days with the cabinets...I swear, that spray mist turns corners and crawls under tape! EVERYTHING you don't want sprayed has to be 100% covered, top, bottom, sides - everything. Any gap/crease in the tape will allow the spray in, It actually was easier to spray the epoxy primer & Zolatone than mask everything off. Being that we didn't have anything in it - the Zolatone was the first "finish" applied - made it easier.

Shari

[Sixty3TW4US]

Originally Posted by Sixty3TW4US

Well we should have an official answer soon.!!!... I sent an e-mail and asked them if their product can be applied over vinly wallpaper in an AS. I will post their response when I get it.

Zolatone

Well the answer is you should NOT put Zolatone over vinyl wallpaper in an AS or over any wallpaper. The chemicals in the product are not compatible with the adhesive and will cause the vinyl paper to bubble and lift, also the vinyl paper has to much elasticity. Remove the vinyl to a solid substrate, patch as needed, then follow their application directions.

[InsideOut]

Hmmm...their answer doesn't really surprise me, based on the question that was posed (based on your earlier postings). It may be a terminology thing...we could be talking about two different things here - vinyl wallpaper vs vinyl wallcovering:

Vinyl wallpaper is basically a paper that has a vinyl coating on the surface. This coating can vary in thickness from a "coating" to the thickness of a sheet of paper. These are the typical wallpapers found in most home decorator stores. They tend to have a printed pattern and are usually pretty smooth.

Vinyl wallcovering is a solid vinyl with a cloth backing - no paper. They can be smooth or light-to-heavy textured and can vary in thickness from a sheet of "cardstock" to 1/16" or more. It is a commercial heavy-duty material that is much more stable & durable.

Vintage Airstreams used a vinyl wallcovering, not wallpaper.

I can see Zolatone not being as compatible with vinyl wallpaper as vinyl wallcovering.

All I can say is have seen first hand very successful applications of Zolatone over vinyl wallcovering both in Airstreams and on commercial interior applications. I have never seen Zolatone applied over wallpaper.

Obviously, the wallcovering would have to be adhered well, if it is bubbling, splitting at the seams, fraying or coming loose prior to painting over it (either with latex, alkyd or Zolatone), painting it will not make any of that better and will most likely make it worse.

Shari

[Sixty3TW4US]

Shari I can see your point. If you like call them and ask the same question using the correct terminology. You may be correct, however with the cost of a Zolatone application I wouldn't want any seams lifting, or the vinyl to come loose and the job look bad. If the existing vinyl was in good condition why paint it anyway?! Their phone # 1-800-810-2785
It's been fun.

[Jim & Susan]

Just to update this thread for those who may be interested.

The PolyCrylic has been on the walls for about a month now and still no sticky walls. Fingers and eyes firmly crossed that this is the solution.

If it holds up well for a few more weeks, I'm going to paint the rest of the walls with it. (only the bedroom area has been top coated with the polycrylic to date).

Jim

[georgezink]

Gosh, I'm almost afraid to relate my experiences in dealing with the interior surfaces of my Minuet - the paint & Future wax gremlins might jump up and ruin what has worked so well for me for the past two years - but here goes...

Our Minuet has the vinyl covered interior walls - also, the cabinets are vinyl covered with a dark woodgrain look. They were in great shape - just somewhat dirty & sticky - when we bought her in 2006. All of these vinyl covered surfaces were wiped down with two coats of Future floor wax - after a thorough cleaning (and rinse) with Simple Green. It brightens these surfaces and makes them easier to clean - and still no sticky.

The ABS surfaces (excluding the bath area) were cleaned, primed with Zinsser Bulls Eye Latex Primer, and top-coated with a Varspar Satin Latex paint. Still looks great with no cracking or peeling - even on the ABS (I think) upper tambour doors.

Krylon Fusion was used on those ABS parts in the bathroom that needed refreshing. The shower pan and cover for the black tank were in good shape and just needed light sanding and a good cleaning. There were some vinyl covered aluminum wall pieces inside the shower which responded well to the simple green and which I chose not to wipe down with the Future wax. I just thought that the wax might not respond well to the occasional use of soap scum removers in the shower. It is sticky-free as well...

These coatings have all been in place for two years of heat & cold in Georgia - and since earlier this year, 5,000 miles of travel (Texas, North Carolina, Florida - and points in between). Looks as good as when first applied. Hope it continues to hold up - but I am not adverse to having to reapply the wax - it's easier than painting - or having to scrub down again prior to reapplying. The texture and pattern of the vinyl coating on the walls is light, warm, & neutral - the cabinets are a pleasant brown - I would like to keep it that way...

George

[big_john]

Dwight - in the plastics business also. We use Vinyl Acetate Ethylene (essentially a vinyl acetate polymer "plasticized" with ethylene) to stick to PVC backed carpet backings all over the North GA marketplace.

We also sell VAE products to paintmakers (think Big and Small) and others have sold VAE to these same paint makers for years. Its my supposition that the VAE based paint will "stick" to the PVC wall coverings much like it "sticks" to the PVC carpet backing. THe folks that are painting their PVC wallcoverings simply need to pick out a VAE based paint? Right?

Note that standard water based paint binders will NOT work, such as 100% acrylic and vinyl acrylics.

I'm NOT a plastics engineer (though I am a chemical engineer) - what do you think?

[Jim & Susan]

For the benefit of us non-engineering types, where can we purchase VAE based paints? I'm guessin' Sherwin-Williams ain't got that even on the back of the shelf.

Second, what's the application process? Lots of expensive sprayers involved?

JIM

[big_john]

Valspar makes paint based on a VAE latex. Not sure the name brand however.

After re-reading this post its quite possible that the leaching or extraction of the plasticizer out of the PVC would also hurt a VAE based paint. The VAE is simply a mechanism to "stick" to a PVC substrate. Having the coating compromised by "plasticizer migration" (as its called in the business) may not be helped by using a VAE based paint.

Quite possibly the best solution here is using a SOLVENT based paint (enviro nazis beware!) that would not be compromised by plasticizer migration. Not sure what these would be however.

I'll ask some folks in the know and see what they recommend and get back to the forum.

[InsideOut]

Originally Posted by big_john

Quite possibly the best solution here is using a SOLVENT based paint (enviro nazis beware!) that would not be compromised by plasticizer migration. Not sure what these would be however.

How about Zolatone 20 Series...it's water/solvent based.

Post #3

Shari

[funkill]

Originally Posted by Jim & Susan

Just to update this thread for those who may be interested.

The PolyCrylic has been on the walls for about a month now and still no sticky walls. Fingers and eyes firmly crossed that this is the solution.

If it holds up well for a few more weeks, I'm going to paint the rest of the walls with it. (only the bedroom area has been top coated with the polycrylic to date).

Jim

I put the PolyCrylic on a few weeks ago during our little cool spell (which lasted less than a week). One localized area was immediately MORE tacky upon drying but the rest is still tacky-free! I haven't decided what to do with the tacky area - strip it, reapply Polycrylic, ignore it, stick hay on it, what????

Laura

[hampstead38]

Good thread.

[Jim & Susan]

Just to update, my walls are still in good shape. I'm really surprised this worked. If I ever have to do this again, I'll probably try the oil based paint route.

Jim

[spz]

I toured a trailer renovator in Colorado last summer, deciding whether to have them do my project; economics requre me to tackle it myself. They told me they had trouble painting walls until they sourced an epoxy primer, no name brand given. I am about to paint my Airstream's walls & will source a primer & paint. I can relate experience I've had painiting sailboats. I use Interlux products. The paint name is "Perfection;" prior to painting surface prep is critical, including sanding the surface, then using two-part "epoxy primekote," as well as "brushing reducer." That is in reference to painting a previously painted fiberglass surface, not sure that it equates to Airstream wall material, but nothing ventured...I intend to paint behind the fridge, insdie the closet or another innocuous area. I will soon give it a go, if it is successful I will let you know. I know it will look great immediately after application, but if it holds 5-6 months after painting, then I'll know it worked. At that point I will let let you know. I wouldn't want my trial & error to become someone else's problem.

[hampstead38]

The issue does not seem to be finding a workable primer. There are a number of folks who seem to have used a range of products with some success, i.e., XIM, Kilz, etc. The issue is plasticizer migrating through the primer and paint to make the walls sticky. If you use the exoxy primer, let us know if you have any subsequent issues with "sticky walls."

[Sixty3TW4US]

Originally Posted by Jim & Susan

Just to update, my walls are still in good shape. I'm really surprised this worked. If I ever have to do this again, I'll probably try the oil based paint route.

Jim

.

I have painted over vinyl wallpaper many times, always using an oil base primer, it works! As stated from Jim & Susan above "If I ever do this again, I'll probably try the oil based paint route". You can put any paint over an oil base primer, as for me I would ONLY use an oil based enamel in my trailer, period, that's just me!

Looks better! Feels better! Last longer!

.

[todanielm]

Hi Jim,

Did Dwight ever give you a brand name in response to your post on 8/25/2009?

Dwight's quote:
"I am a retired plastics engineer and have formulated many flexible PVC compounds. This sticky problem is common to many non-rigid PVC compounds. It is caused by the liquid plastiziers, that are used to make the PVC flexible, becoming incompatible with the rest of the PVC compound and being kicked out of solution or what we call "spewing". The degraded liquid plasticizers bleed to the surface of the PVC and then migrate into or combine with the top coat you have put on to cover up the problem. To be successful in the long run, you need to pick a top coat that is completely impermeable to the plasticizers. Otherwise, you will just cover up the problem till the plasticizers destroys the topcoat polymer. The underlying problem is the stabilizers in the plasticizers break down over time and the plasticizers degrade. You can not do much about that."

Your quote:
"Dwight, can you recommend something? Name brand, I mean.
Jim "

I'm trying to figure out the "correct" primer for my interior walls on my 1974 Trade Wind. I'm also trying to figure out whether or not to apply latex paint over the "correct" primer for my "spewing" flexible pvc interior walls.

Boy, I'd sure appreciate any enlightenment you might have on this sticky matter! Feel free to email me at: tojunk@att.net if you like (or anyone else reading this post). Thanks.

Daniel

[hampstead38]

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f39/...ors-62392.html

This is what I have learned. I did the following: Pre-primed with XIM plastic primer, primed with Xinsser oil-based primer and painted with latex. I'll put a coat of Polycrilic on next.