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Jim & Susan · 08-25-2009, 05:42 PM

Yep.

Sixty3TW4US · 08-26-2009, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funkill

Oh, my head is going to explode!!!!

Laura

I hope your head stays put!!

Regarding putting latex over an oil-base or putting oil-base over latex here is the scoop.

Never put latex/acrylic paint over an oil-base enamel, without.... the proper preparation... it will not stick, however... you can put an oil-base paint over a latex/acrylic paint, a primer is recomended in either case. The better of the 2 finish products is an oil-base coating. As in many of the threads here the main problem and complaints with a latex/acrylic is that the paint gets STICKY.....oil-base will NOT get sticky!!!

Good Luck!!

funkill · 08-26-2009, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sixty3TW4US

I hope your head stays put!!

Regarding putting latex over an oil-base or putting oil-base over latex here is the scoop.

Never put latex/acrylic paint over an oil-base enamel, without.... the proper preparation... it will not stick, however... you can put an oil-base paint over a latex/acrylic paint, a primer is recomended in either case. The better of the 2 finish products is an oil-base coating. As in many of the threads here the main problem and complaints with a latex/acrylic is that the paint gets STICKY.....oil-base will NOT get sticky!!!

Good Luck!!

So, the final question is: will the oil eventually fail also (because it's over the sticky laytex)?

Cantrell · 08-26-2009, 06:41 PM

Let me clarify my earlier post a bit. I talked with my paint rep today and he said it should not be a problem putting oil over latex as long as you scuff the surface and use an oil based primer before applying the oil. I have always avoided putting latex over oil and vice versa because of the potential problems with loss of adhesion and problems with expansion and contraction but he suggests that since it is in a relatively stable environment and inside it should work.
I apologize for being incorrect.
Would you let me know how it works out because I still have reservations about it but if everyone says it will work then give it a try.
Live and learn.
Bill

Jim & Susan · 08-26-2009, 07:46 PM

Rats, now I've got somemore thinkin' to do.

I've already primed the entire interior with S/W PrepRight Bonding Primer. Then top coated that with S/W Duration latex (in three separate colors in different rooms). The bath is back in and I'm working on the center bedroom.

Decisions, Decisions.

The PrepRight is made to cover a wide range of materials (including vinyl) and can be top coated with latex or oil paints. Problem is I've already top coated it with the Duration. Maybe scuff that with a green ScotchBright, lay down a coat of Oil based Kilz, then top coat with oil based finish paint? Dang, that's a bunch of work.

This is making my head hurt, too.

Jim

Sixty3TW4US · 08-27-2009, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funkill

So, the final question is: will the oil eventually fail also (because it's over the sticky laytex)?

junkill.....there should be no problem, and the oil-base coating should not fail. Remember to first apply the prime coat. I know all this has been confusing. Once you get through the hassel of using an oil product the end result is vary satisfying. Just take your time. When you use an oil paint you have a lot more time to work it, where a latex dries fast and brush marks show. I am a painting contractor in Calif.

Maryw164 · 08-27-2009, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sixty3TW4US

junkill.....there should be no problem, and the oil-base coating should not fail. Remember to first apply the prime coat. I know all this has been confusing. Once you get through the hassel of using an oil product the end result is vary satisfying. Just take your time. When you use an oil paint you have a lot more time to work it, where a latex dries fast and brush marks show. I am a painting contractor in Calif.

So as a painting contractor......how would you recommend painting the vinyl walls in the AS? And with what product to get the best end result? Both primer type/brand, and top coat? Also what products would you recommend if I wanted to paint the tambour (dark walnut vinyl)? I want to do this right the first time.

Thanks,

Mary

funkill · 08-28-2009, 08:40 AM

This morning the SW paint rep and the local store mgr made a house call to look at the *tacky* paint in my trailer. They said they'd done some research and believe that the failure is that of the Duration latex - not the XIM primer. They didn't seem to know how to attack the situation but agreed that the Minwax Polycrylic was a good idea -based on the science of it....

They're bringing me a quart to try. They believe that if it dries/solidifies, it will stay that way idefinitely.

Also, I made an inquiry to a company in AU who manufactures a a vinyl wallpaper sealer, Resene (Resene Vinyl Wallpaper Sealer - Prevents Sticky Finish). I explained the condition that I'm having and their advice is as follows:

I have discussed this with one of our chemists. (insert here>>> the chemist's message was, "sounds like a case of plasticiser migration coming thru from the original vinyl over the aliminium. I'm not sure if Resene have a plasticiser resistant barrier coat but in the past I've used poly vinyl butyral coatings to resolve this problem.") He recommends that the acrylic is removed. The steaming process will allow the paint to be peeled off the surface. You should then apply a Poly Vinyl Butyral coating and the follow with the acrylic topcoat again. Unfortunately we do not carry a PVB coating within our range of products and I couldn't recommend who you would approach in the US to obtain one. Maybe the supplier of the Xim 400 Primer may be able to help.
I hope this helps in some way.
Regards
Roger Hiini
Export and Aviation Sales
Resene Automotive and Performance Coatings
Auckland
New Zealand

Whew - what a lot to digest. I am not certain what Roger Hiini means by the comment about "the steaming process". Does he anticipate me steaming the latex off? Or does he mean the steaming process that Airstream used to adhere the vinyl wallpaper to the aluminum skin?

Laura

Foiled Again · 08-28-2009, 09:45 AM

Looking for a nice unit to restore - NOT gonna paint it inside, PERIOD.

Thanks for the cautionary tale(s).

Hm, Tear out vinyl, do a birch interior, or bare aluminum? Or a tasteful mixture of the two?

Paula

Jim & Susan · 08-28-2009, 10:27 AM

Nice detective work, Laura. He seems to be refering to the same plasticizer migration that dwight mentioned. Bet I can't get any of the poly vinyl butyral at the "7-11".

I'll check around here in town tomorrow and see what I can find out.

Paula, I've read a whole bunch of threads about painting these vinyl walls, I've seen a few mentions of folks who tried to remove the vinyl and go to bare aluminum. I have yet to see anybody complete the "removal" process for the entire camper. Doens't mean it hasn't happened, I just haven't seen it. These stinkin' walls are a real pain.

Jim

Sixty3TW4US · 08-28-2009, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maryw164

So as a painting contractor......how would you recommend painting the vinyl walls in the AS? And with what product to get the best end result? Both primer type/brand, and top coat? Also what products would you recommend if I wanted to paint the tambour (dark walnut vinyl)? I want to do this right the first time.

Thanks,

Mary

Mary
It's always better to remove any vinyl prior to painting, that being said we have painted over wall paper many times. When removal is not possible, clean the surface well, let dry, and use a top a top quality oil-based primer. Most paint stores in your area can direct you to the correct primer, homedepot employes are not always knowlegable in the paint dept regarding special applications. Take your time and finish with an oil paint satin or semigloss is best. I prefer satin so the walls don't have a sharp glare,......... to each their own. Brands vary, in Calif. we have restrictions on many paint coatings. Most name brands have oil-based primers and finish coatings and they don't differ that much from brand to brand. Just do your best to stay away from water based, latex, acrylic (their all the same) paints.

InsideOut · 08-28-2009, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foiled Again

Looking for a nice unit to restore - NOT gonna paint it inside, PERIOD.

Thanks for the cautionary tale(s).

Hm, Tear out vinyl, do a birch interior, or bare aluminum? Or a tasteful mixture of the two?

Paula

As another alternate - Zolatone over the vinyl. It looks great and seals the surface...no tackiness in trailers I've seen - one that has been done for over 5+ years now.

Shari

Jim & Susan · 08-28-2009, 11:01 AM

You're kidding! Zolatone over vinyl? I would have thought it needed a metal surface to stick to. Thanks for the heads-up, Shari.

This is the first post I've seen with a "paint life" of more than a couple or years. Worth looking into.

Jim

InsideOut · 08-28-2009, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim & Susan

You're kidding! Zolatone over vinyl? I would have thought it needed a metal surface to stick to. Thanks for the heads-up, Shari.

Nope...the AIM (20 Series) line is a commercial product that sticks to just about everything. I've seen it adhere to ceramic tile, concrete block, glass, etc. It is the original finish Airstream used. There is a less durable line, Polymix which is water based - but I have only used that in "normal" interior projects.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim & Susan

This is the first post I've seen with a "paint life" of more than a couple or years. Worth looking into.

Jim

I've been talking about Zolatone over vinyl for years...ever since I first saw it in a trailer. It looks awesome...the colors are somewhat limited, but they can be mixed for more variety. It's what we used in our '56.

Guess I just added the "magic words" this time...

Shari

Maryw164 · 08-28-2009, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sixty3TW4US

Mary
It's always better to remove any vinyl prior to painting, that being said we have painted over wall paper many times. When removal is not possible, clean the surface well, let dry, and use a top a top quality oil-based primer. Most paint stores in your area can direct you to the correct primer, homedepot employes are not always knowlegable in the paint dept regarding special applications. Take your time and finish with an oil paint satin or semigloss is best. I prefer satin so the walls don't have a sharp glare,......... to each their own. Brands vary, in Calif. we have restrictions on many paint coatings. Most name brands have oil-based primers and finish coatings and they don't differ that much from brand to brand. Just do your best to stay away from water based, latex, acrylic (their all the same) paints.

So to check if I am understanding you correctly.....

Use oil based both on the primer & paint and there should be no problems. Also would the same apply to the ABS endcaps, to use oil base?

Thanks, Mary

Jim & Susan · 08-28-2009, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InsideOut

.... Guess I just added the "magic words" this time...

Shari

Or I need to start paying attention.

Jim

Sixty3TW4US · 08-28-2009, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maryw164

So to check if I am understanding you correctly.....

Use oil based both on the primer & paint and there should be no problems. Also would the same apply to the ABS endcaps, to use oil base?

Thanks, Mary

There should no problems. You can always do a test area to insure your satisfaction. I am sure it will not get sticky and the adhesion is much better than any water base paint. As with any paint coatings abuse will affect the finish, nicks, scratches etc.

Sixty3TW4US · 08-28-2009, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InsideOut

Nope...the AIM (20 Series) line is a commercial product that sticks to just about everything. I've seen it adhere to ceramic tile, concrete block, glass, etc. It is the original finish Airstream used. There is a less durable line, Polymix which is water based - but I have only used that in "normal" interior projects.

I've been talking about Zolatone over vinyl for years...ever since I first saw it in a trailer. It looks awesome...the colors are somewhat limited, but they can be mixed for more variety. It's what we used in our '56.

Guess I just added the "magic words" this time...

Shari

As you all know the early airstreams had used Zolatone, it is a great product my 63 TW still has the or. Zolatone in excelent condition, this was made possible by the care taken by the last 2 PO. I'm the 3rd owner.

Zolatone is NOT user friendly, it is a commerical product designed to be used by an experienced applicator. I believe it can only be applied by spray application using special equipment most people don't have at home. If you have knowlege of painting cars you should have no problems, you need to know your limits.
I believe it is quite expensive, but there is nothing us ASers won't do for our AS. I would like to hear from someone who has applied Zolatone in their AS.

Jim & Susan · 08-28-2009, 04:29 PM

Take a stroll thru Don's thread: http://www.airforums.com/forums/f36/...mbi-17925.html

He has two Airstreams and I think this is the one he Zolatoned.

Jim

On edit: He's a great guy and will answer any question you have!

Sixty3TW4US · 08-28-2009, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InsideOut

Nope...the AIM (20 Series) line is a commercial product that sticks to just about everything.

Guess I just added the "magic words" this time...

Shari

Well we should have an official answer soon.!!!... I sent an e-mail and asked them if their product can be applied over vinly wallpaper in an AS. I will post their response when I get it.