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Old 08-25-2009, 10:57 AM   #15
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Dwight, can you recommend something? Name brand, I mean.

Jim

I was wanting to ask the same thing ... or what phrase to google to find "top coat that is completely impermeable to the plasticizers".

I am glad to hear you are having success with the Polycrylic. Two calls to S/W have gone unreturned. Time for a foot trip.

Laura
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Old 08-25-2009, 03:56 PM   #16
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Minwax Polycrylic is simply a waterbourne polyurethane product. I seriously doubt that it will be able to 'hold back' the disengrating and migrating plasticizers any better than the latex paint products--it is a good product just not likely able to do what they are saying it will do. I know of no product you could put OVER the latex based products that would hold back the spewing. They problably haven't called you back because there is no solution.

Our walls were a little sticky--cleaned them best we could and then used a double coat of oil based Zinsser primer and two top coats of Benjamin Moore alkyd (oil based). It is much more durable and is a lot better at holding back bleed through of anything. Messier to work with and stinkier (VOCs), but the payoff is in the extreme durability. We have had it in ours for a couple of years with zero problems.

I know this would be a nightmare but I would recommend stripping the latex products and go back with alkyd (both primer and top coats). The little foam cigar rollers will give a beautiful finish and make it easier to apply. Make sure you have lots of ventilation when applying alkyd products (fans, open windows). Follow the directions to the letter (don't apply late in the afternoon or in high humidity, etc.).

Whatever you do, do not put an oil based product over the latex product. When the oil based product cures out, it is very rigid and hard. Latex moves around a lot, even when cured--caused by changes in temperature and humidity. This repeated expansion and contraction will cause oil on top of latex to lose adhesion and begin to blister and fall off.
Best of luck,
Bill
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Old 08-25-2009, 04:09 PM   #17
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Well that brings up a whole 'nuther set of questions.

I primed (as did Funkill) with a primer that was supposedly designed for plastics. Sherwin Williams recommended the latex paint as a top coat for this primer. I'll grab the can and reread the specifics and post back here.

How would one go about stripping this product (or at least the latex top coat) at this point?

Jim
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Old 08-25-2009, 05:29 PM   #18
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Cantrell !!! has it right, for maxium durability a good oil-based, alkyd paint coating has been and still is the best. It is messy, stinks however the pros out way the cons. There is also a low odor oil-base coating . As far as the XIM primer, it is best used for non porous substrates like glass, ceramic tile etc.
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Old 08-25-2009, 05:35 PM   #19
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Well that brings up a whole 'nuther set of questions.

I primed (as did Funkill) with a primer that was supposedly designed for plastics. Sherwin Williams recommended the latex paint as a top coat for this primer. I'll grab the can and reread the specifics and post back here.

How would one go about stripping this product (or at least the latex top coat) at this point?

Jim
You don't have to strip it. Just clean the surface, prime with an oil-based primer, and use an oil-based finish. You can get a nice Satin or Semi-Gloss finish. If you have any concerns do a test area. You will love the finish of an oil-based paint, and it will last a long time.
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Old 08-25-2009, 06:38 PM   #20
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Whatever you do, do not put an oil based product over the latex product.

Best of luck,
Bill
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You don't have to strip it. Just clean the surface, prime with an oil-based primer, and use an oil-based finish. You can get a nice Satin or Semi-Gloss finish. If you have any concerns do a test area. You will love the finish of an oil-based paint, and it will last a long time.
Oh, my head is going to explode!!!!

Laura
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Old 08-25-2009, 06:42 PM   #21
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Yep.
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Old 08-26-2009, 10:06 AM   #22
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Oh, my head is going to explode!!!!

Laura
I hope your head stays put!!

Regarding putting latex over an oil-base or putting oil-base over latex here is the scoop.

Never put latex/acrylic paint over an oil-base enamel, without.... the proper preparation... it will not stick, however... you can put an oil-base paint over a latex/acrylic paint, a primer is recomended in either case. The better of the 2 finish products is an oil-base coating. As in many of the threads here the main problem and complaints with a latex/acrylic is that the paint gets STICKY.....oil-base will NOT get sticky!!!

Good Luck!!
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Old 08-26-2009, 10:11 AM   #23
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I hope your head stays put!!

Regarding putting latex over an oil-base or putting oil-base over latex here is the scoop.

Never put latex/acrylic paint over an oil-base enamel, without.... the proper preparation... it will not stick, however... you can put an oil-base paint over a latex/acrylic paint, a primer is recomended in either case. The better of the 2 finish products is an oil-base coating. As in many of the threads here the main problem and complaints with a latex/acrylic is that the paint gets STICKY.....oil-base will NOT get sticky!!!

Good Luck!!

So, the final question is: will the oil eventually fail also (because it's over the sticky laytex)?
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Old 08-26-2009, 07:41 PM   #24
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Let me clarify my earlier post a bit. I talked with my paint rep today and he said it should not be a problem putting oil over latex as long as you scuff the surface and use an oil based primer before applying the oil. I have always avoided putting latex over oil and vice versa because of the potential problems with loss of adhesion and problems with expansion and contraction but he suggests that since it is in a relatively stable environment and inside it should work.
I apologize for being incorrect.
Would you let me know how it works out because I still have reservations about it but if everyone says it will work then give it a try.
Live and learn.
Bill
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Old 08-26-2009, 08:46 PM   #25
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Rats, now I've got somemore thinkin' to do.

I've already primed the entire interior with S/W PrepRight Bonding Primer. Then top coated that with S/W Duration latex (in three separate colors in different rooms). The bath is back in and I'm working on the center bedroom.

Decisions, Decisions.

The PrepRight is made to cover a wide range of materials (including vinyl) and can be top coated with latex or oil paints. Problem is I've already top coated it with the Duration. Maybe scuff that with a green ScotchBright, lay down a coat of Oil based Kilz, then top coat with oil based finish paint? Dang, that's a bunch of work.

This is making my head hurt, too.

Jim
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Old 08-27-2009, 10:25 AM   #26
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So, the final question is: will the oil eventually fail also (because it's over the sticky laytex)?
junkill.....there should be no problem, and the oil-base coating should not fail. Remember to first apply the prime coat. I know all this has been confusing. Once you get through the hassel of using an oil product the end result is vary satisfying. Just take your time. When you use an oil paint you have a lot more time to work it, where a latex dries fast and brush marks show. I am a painting contractor in Calif.
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Old 08-27-2009, 10:42 AM   #27
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junkill.....there should be no problem, and the oil-base coating should not fail. Remember to first apply the prime coat. I know all this has been confusing. Once you get through the hassel of using an oil product the end result is vary satisfying. Just take your time. When you use an oil paint you have a lot more time to work it, where a latex dries fast and brush marks show. I am a painting contractor in Calif.
So as a painting contractor......how would you recommend painting the vinyl walls in the AS? And with what product to get the best end result? Both primer type/brand, and top coat? Also what products would you recommend if I wanted to paint the tambour (dark walnut vinyl)? I want to do this right the first time.

Thanks,

Mary
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Old 08-28-2009, 09:40 AM   #28
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even more paint science!

This morning the SW paint rep and the local store mgr made a house call to look at the *tacky* paint in my trailer. They said they'd done some research and believe that the failure is that of the Duration latex - not the XIM primer. They didn't seem to know how to attack the situation but agreed that the Minwax Polycrylic was a good idea -based on the science of it.... They're bringing me a quart to try. They believe that if it dries/solidifies, it will stay that way idefinitely.

Also, I made an inquiry to a company in AU who manufactures a a vinyl wallpaper sealer, Resene (Resene Vinyl Wallpaper Sealer - Prevents Sticky Finish). I explained the condition that I'm having and their advice is as follows:
I have discussed this with one of our chemists. (insert here>>> the chemist's message was, "sounds like a case of plasticiser migration coming thru from the original vinyl over the aliminium. I'm not sure if Resene have a plasticiser resistant barrier coat but in the past I've used poly vinyl butyral coatings to resolve this problem.") He recommends that the acrylic is removed. The steaming process will allow the paint to be peeled off the surface. You should then apply a Poly Vinyl Butyral coating and the follow with the acrylic topcoat again. Unfortunately we do not carry a PVB coating within our range of products and I couldn't recommend who you would approach in the US to obtain one. Maybe the supplier of the Xim 400 Primer may be able to help.
I hope this helps in some way.
Regards
Roger Hiini
Export and Aviation Sales
Resene Automotive and Performance Coatings
Auckland
New Zealand
Whew - what a lot to digest. I am not certain what Roger Hiini means by the comment about "the steaming process". Does he anticipate me steaming the latex off? Or does he mean the steaming process that Airstream used to adhere the vinyl wallpaper to the aluminum skin?

Laura
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