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03-26-2012, 12:00 PM
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#1
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3 Rivet Member
1989 29' Excella
Tyrone
, Georgia
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 187
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Mid way through interior vinyl removal - how to remove remnants and cross-hatch?
First, I need to warn anyone out there considering stripping the vinyl.. I know some people have had easy results but let me just say that my experience has been pure hell.
With that said, I'm almost done but still have the elusive cross-hatch as well as areas where the vinyl separated and the cross-hatch is a lot thicker.
Any suggestions on finishing? I was thinking of some sort of non-abrasive pad w/stripper or adhesive remover on a grinder or drill to scrub it off. It is not thick enough to simply peel off anymore.
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03-26-2012, 05:16 PM
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#2
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Rivet Master
1973 27' Overlander
Currently Looking...
Jupiter
, Florida
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,060
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Care to share details, what process & product for removal?
At this point a plastic putty-knife scraper might be the best - anything machine that could* leave a scratch would leave a 1000 miles of swirls before you could blink.
Have you done the laying a plastic sheet over the wet surface to keep evaporation down to increase soak time? Also, temperature can be critical - if the surfaces are 50°F there is probably triple the soak time from 75°F.
Photos would be great.
I made my own rotary nylon bristle brush from a 99¢ scrub brush from Wal-mart, it cleaned the vinyl perfectly and then stripped pink insulation - the brush has disappeared from the retail universe, even online. It would probably melt the bristles to use it with solvent. It was just a circular shell, I added the flap-sander core to be able to chuck it in a drill. The only other plastic bristle brushes that provide a mandrel to chuck into a drill that I've seen are impregnated with grit to use for sand - NOT the thing you want to use.
__________________
The days are short and the night is long and the stars go tumbling by.. . ~Airstream~
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03-26-2012, 06:43 PM
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#3
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3 Rivet Member
1989 29' Excella
Tyrone
, Georgia
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 187
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Here is what I did...
First mistake: started with sherwin williams top of the line epoxy stripper.
I get a great discount there so I always opt to use their products but in this case it was a huge error. I purchased some KS-3 today after finding that recommendation on the board.
In essence, there became a very fine line between losing the strength of the vinyl and loosening the adhesive beneath. I got all but 3 panels in the right spot, and removed the entire sheet of vinyl without problem but the 3 that went enormously wrong. I'm talking the entire sheet pulling off 1" piece at a time.
Another key note to those moving forward. As best I can tell the stripper
1. Goes on
2. Has a period of time where it hasn't soaked to the adhesive yet
3. Sweet spot where it has soaked to adhesive and is ready to pull
4. Begins to dry and will not pull well
5. Dries and creates an impermeable layer within the vinyl.
I.E. Never let a panel dry.
---
Thanks for the recommendation on using plastic scrapers. I went down and got some more. Unfortunately they pretty much melt when they touch the stripper.
I also purchased a purdy painters tool. It has a super sharp blade on it. I was actually able to carefully scrape 90 percent of the remaining remnants with that since my last post.
Another thing that seemed help was putting a canvas or heavy duty towel over the blade and scrubbing with that some.
Anyway. Thanks much for showing the brush. Wish I would have been able to buy one of those yesterday.
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03-27-2012, 02:58 AM
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#4
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Rivet Master
1973 27' Overlander
Currently Looking...
Jupiter
, Florida
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,060
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There are resin kitchen spatulas & scrapers utensils that may resist the stripper better than the red devil junk.
KS-3 is Methylene chloride; Methanol Mineral spirits...
I've used Methylene chloride in a gasket remover aerosol on the exterior shell to remove the old number sets and decals - it reacts with aluminum. Do try an minimize the time its in contact, but the mineral spirits may buffer the reaction.
__________________
The days are short and the night is long and the stars go tumbling by.. . ~Airstream~
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03-28-2012, 08:18 AM
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#5
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3 Rivet Member
1989 29' Excella
Tyrone
, Georgia
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 187
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Thankfully I don't believe I have damaged any of the aluminum yet Thanks for the heads up.
I remember another thread (can't find now) where someone said lacquer paint thinner did a good job at removing the light cross hatch of adhesive that remained. Any thoughts on what to use to get it off? Amazingly it appears the ks-3 does not effect it at all.
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03-28-2012, 11:12 AM
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#6
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2 Rivet Member
1978 28' Ambassador
Saint Paul
, Minnesota
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 21
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I used Savogran's SuperStrip product (availble at Home Depot, about $30/gallon) to remove the vinyl and remnants. A hard plastic scraper held up better than the soft scrapers. The few times that the stripper did happen to dry, I just painted over it again and the stuff bubbled up quite nicely.
There was a bit of residue left but my son figured out that putting a wool buffer pad on the rotary, then giving it a good splash of denatured alcohol, got the residue off and polished any other nasties from the aluminum.
You'll need nitrile gloves as the Savogran burns skin on contact. We did strip the panels in place. Working overhead is a bit of a challenge, but with plenty of ventilation and plenty of fresh air/stretch breaks and it's completely possible for two people to strip a 28' trailer in about a week, working a few hours a night.
So far, no swirlies and no scratches. Best of all, no vinyl.
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03-28-2012, 02:21 PM
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#7
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Rivet Master
1986 32' Excella
Currently Looking...
Canton
, Georgia
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,342
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I can't wait to see photos!
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04-01-2012, 08:43 AM
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#8
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Rivet Master
1995 30' Excella
Bowie
, Maryland
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wabbiteer
I made my own rotary nylon bristle brush from a 99¢ scrub brush from Wal-mart, it cleaned the vinyl perfectly and then stripped pink insulation - the brush has disappeared from the retail universe, even online. It would probably melt the bristles to use it with solvent. It was just a circular shell, I added the flap-sander core to be able to chuck it in a drill. The only other plastic bristle brushes that provide a mandrel to chuck into a drill that I've seen are impregnated with grit to use for sand - NOT the thing you want to use.
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First, I apologize for the (semi-) off-topicness. I think you guys are talking about a different vinyl situation than we have. I'm thinking about the vinyl covering Airstream put on the ceilings during the 90s.
I was floored when I saw your brush - I bet it would work perfectly for removing the backing that sticks to the aluminum skin. Rubbing it or scraping it seems to bring it down. Goggles and plastic sheeting a MUST, though...it goes everywhere.
Do you or does anyone else have any thoughts on that?
Now that I see your bristle brush I think I erred in putting some screws into the aluminum to hold the vinyl up. So if I did use a brush like this, I'd have to hide those holes somehow. But otherwise, my wife and I think stripping that to bare aluminum would look much better. We'd first just do the panel in the front of the camper that's being a headache now - maybe later do the other panels to make it all match. But I think your brush idea would make it a much more tolerable job, as opposed to trying to use stripper chemicals. Still a mess, of course.
__________________
1995 Airstream Classic 30' Excella 1000
2014 Ram 2500 Crew Cab with Cummins 6.7L Diesel
Sold but not forgotten: 1991 Airstream B190
Sold: 2006 F-250 6.0L Powerstroke Supercab
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04-01-2012, 10:23 AM
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#9
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Rivet Master
1973 27' Overlander
Currently Looking...
Jupiter
, Florida
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,060
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Any holes in the liners can be filled with pulled pop-rivets or even buck rivets just glued in place. There may be limits though, I've got a horrible mess where Joe Somewhen moved the refrigerator chimeny twice so it left three rows of 1-inch spaced holes in the liner - guess who committed to a smaller Vitrifrigo 12/24V fridge before pulling the galley cabinets apart & finding the 210 ragged holes? Ouch.
The bristles on that brush were pretty stout to begin with - you're seeing it after it scrubbed the interior vinyl clean w/ spic'n span and then fought the 440 sqft of outer shell fiberglass... amazing what gentle pressure with high RPMs can do. Currently there is small (2-1/4") Lysol round scrub brush at walmart that has a pivoting handle to change the brush head angle to 90° which might work if the plastic handle is cut away - next time I'm there I'll buy and try to make it convert to a power drill brush...
Savogran's SuperStrip is 85% Dichloromethane or methylene chloride (MC) in a more common definition with 10% Methanol and a 5% Toluene kicker - with paraffin wax added as a drying time extender. Just noting this for the permanent record as we look for the perfect liner-vinyl stripper...
__________________
The days are short and the night is long and the stars go tumbling by.. . ~Airstream~
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04-01-2012, 11:05 AM
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#10
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Rivet Master
1995 30' Excella
Bowie
, Maryland
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wabbiteer
Any holes in the liners can be filled with pulled pop-rivets or even buck rivets just glued in place. There may be limits though, I've got a horrible mess where Joe Somewhen moved the refrigerator chimeny twice so it left three rows of 1-inch spaced holes in the liner - guess who committed to a smaller Vitrifrigo 12/24V fridge before pulling the galley cabinets apart & finding the 210 ragged holes? Ouch.
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Yeah, ouch. In our case, it's just half a dozen or so holes for #8 screws. The buck rivet idea is a good one, thanks.
Quote:
The bristles on that brush were pretty stout to begin with - you're seeing it after it scrubbed the interior vinyl clean w/ spic'n span
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I want to be very clear here - you used this to remove the vinyl down to aluminum? Or just to clean the vinyl in place? As you mentioned before, I'm afraid of putting marks in the aluminum.
Thanks.
__________________
1995 Airstream Classic 30' Excella 1000
2014 Ram 2500 Crew Cab with Cummins 6.7L Diesel
Sold but not forgotten: 1991 Airstream B190
Sold: 2006 F-250 6.0L Powerstroke Supercab
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04-01-2012, 01:00 PM
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#11
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Rivet Master
1973 27' Overlander
Currently Looking...
Jupiter
, Florida
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,060
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Quote:
. ..from a 99¢ scrub brush from Wal-mart, it cleaned the vinyl perfectly.. .
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Not used on solvent melted vinyl - used to scrub the grease and junk in/on the vinyl down to a bright white & non-oily surface while the liners were still installed - I was chasing bad odors...
After committing to a shell-off, I finished washing interior liner hidden areas and backs with a deck brush while lined up sitting in grass.
When it comes time I'll be stripping vinyl too - or outright replacing the three ceiling pieces...
The mesh designs left after peeling the vinyl would be a good candidate for a rotary nylon bristle brush *if a solvent is used that won't attack the brush body or bristles...
__________________
The days are short and the night is long and the stars go tumbling by.. . ~Airstream~
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04-02-2012, 05:06 AM
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#12
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3 Rivet Member
1989 29' Excella
Tyrone
, Georgia
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 187
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Thinking back I can't help but wonder if cleaning the vinyl like that prior to stripping isn't a key part. Although I don't really know if a dirty panel will strip harder than a clean one.
FYI for the husbands out there. The apparent limit to the number of allowable jokes concerning the fact that you are spending a lot of time in the airstream with said stripper is less than 2 occurrences.
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04-10-2012, 04:14 AM
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#13
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Rivet Master
1986 32' Excella
Currently Looking...
Canton
, Georgia
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,342
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How is your project going? Are you all
Coming to Stone Mountain?
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06-01-2012, 10:54 PM
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#14
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4 Rivet Member
1976 27' Overlander
Missoula
, Montana
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 438
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Newby Question - What "vinyl" are you talking about?
Forgive a newby question, but is the "vinyl" to which this thread refers, the covering of the ceilings and walls? The reason I ask is because we looked at a '76 Overlander today and my wife noticed the covering of the ceiling and walls (down to about mid-way) were "tacky" to the touch. The only surface that was NOT tacky was the front (over the front goucho area) ceiling covering of the end cap, which because of the curves seemed to be a harder (perhaps even molded) type of material, and smooth to the touch.
We are considering buying this trailer but I began searching all the threads in this sub-forum to see if I could find anything about what we saw. If this ceiling/wall covering IS vinyl, perhaps it (the surface, that is) is "breaking down" in this 36 year old unit or maybe the "tackiness" to the touch is a result of something else -- like a previous attempt to clean the surface. But the tacky feel is everywhere. Any helpful explanation would at least let us know if this is a known issue. Thanks - we appreciate learning from all of you!
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06-01-2012, 11:20 PM
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#15
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3 Rivet Member
1989 29' Excella
Tyrone
, Georgia
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OilnH2o
Forgive a newby question, but is the "vinyl" to which this thread refers, the covering of the ceilings and walls? The reason I ask is because we looked at a '76 Overlander today and my wife noticed the covering of the ceiling and walls (down to about mid-way) were "tacky" to the touch. The only surface that was NOT tacky was the front (over the front goucho area) ceiling covering of the end cap, which because of the curves seemed to be a harder (perhaps even molded) type of material, and smooth to the touch.
We are considering buying this trailer but I began searching all the threads in this sub-forum to see if I could find anything about what we saw. If this ceiling/wall covering IS vinyl, perhaps it (the surface, that is) is "breaking down" in this 36 year old unit or maybe the "tackiness" to the touch is a result of something else -- like a previous attempt to clean the surface. But the tacky feel is everywhere. Any helpful explanation would at least let us know if this is a known issue. Thanks - we appreciate learning from all of you!
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Hello! I'd jump into a lot of research prior to jumping into an older camper that needs a lot of work if it was me (my 2 cents), but yes, I believe you will find aluminum under that vinyl, which has adhesive coming out through it's pores.
In one of my first photos here you can see mine, partially through the stripping of vinyl.
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f46/...air-88759.html
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06-02-2012, 04:42 AM
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#16
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Rivet Monster
1975 31' Sovereign
1980 31' Excella II
Sprung Leak
, North Carolina
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 7,172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OilnH2o
Forgive a newby question, but is the "vinyl" to which this thread refers, the covering of the ceilings and walls? The reason I ask is because we looked at a '76 Overlander today and my wife noticed the covering of the ceiling and walls (down to about mid-way) were "tacky" to the touch. The only surface that was NOT tacky was the front (over the front goucho area) ceiling covering of the end cap, which because of the curves seemed to be a harder (perhaps even molded) type of material, and smooth to the touch.
We are considering buying this trailer but I began searching all the threads in this sub-forum to see if I could find anything about what we saw. If this ceiling/wall covering IS vinyl, perhaps it (the surface, that is) is "breaking down" in this 36 year old unit or maybe the "tackiness" to the touch is a result of something else -- like a previous attempt to clean the surface. But the tacky feel is everywhere. Any helpful explanation would at least let us know if this is a known issue. Thanks - we appreciate learning from all of you!
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The 1976 has vinyl over aluminum panels, the interior endcaps are not aluminum, they are fiberglass/plastic/abs? depending on the year. We use Krud Kutter to get the worst of the sticky stuff off, then do a wipe down with a warm/hot water and a mild bleach mixture. This is not for stripping the vinyl.
The stickiness is a combination of crud build up and the nature of that particular plastic coating. A good cleaning will take care of the worst of it.
Aaron
__________________
....so many Airstreams....so little time...
WBCCI #XXXX AIR #2495
Why are we in this basket...and where are we going
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06-02-2012, 07:33 AM
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#17
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4 Rivet Member
1976 27' Overlander
Missoula
, Montana
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeandnora
Hello! I'd jump into a lot of research prior to jumping into an older camper that needs a lot of work if it was me (my 2 cents), but yes, I believe you will find aluminum under that vinyl, which has adhesive coming out through it's pores.
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Boy howdy! I've definitely got that message... which is why I was asking the question. This is an older camper that actually doesn't need a lot of work and has been pretty well maintained. Since my post I've gone back to the factory specs for that model year and found that, indeed, it is " interior walls of wear-resistant vinyl laminated to aluminum." I should have said the reason for my question is if the "tacky" feel means the vinyl is compromised... or that others have encountered this and found a way to clean or remove that tackiness. The AS is in pretty good condition, and to look at it, the ceilings/sides are in top shape, all things considered. It's just "tacky." Thanks for the help and the reference to your work. Your pictures are helpful - and you do nice work!
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06-02-2012, 07:41 AM
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#18
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4 Rivet Member
1976 27' Overlander
Missoula
, Montana
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wahoonc
The 1976 has vinyl over aluminum panels, the interior endcaps are not aluminum, they are fiberglass/plastic/abs? depending on the year. We use Krud Kutter to get the worst of the sticky stuff off, then do a wipe down with a warm/hot water and a mild bleach mixture. This is not for stripping the vinyl.
The stickiness is a combination of crud build up and the nature of that particular plastic coating. A good cleaning will take care of the worst of it.
Aaron
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Thanks, Aaron. I'll check the "Krud Kutter" out if we end up with the particular AS. I was worried that if I started in on something that, for all appearances looks fine, but tried to clean the surface, I would only make it worse and have to get into the removal - something I don't think this one needs.
And, it does appear, as you say, the interior end-cap cover is some sort of molded plastic material - but it too is in good condition except for one small, stop-drilled crack which the current owner says he has "lived with" for 12 years and, I can see that option as well - at least it is purely a cosmetic issue. Thanks for the help from both of you - I'm learning!
(By the way... I assume you all have seen the other thread elsewhere - one of the interior forums - with the Youtube video about using brake-parts cleaner for easy removal of the cross-hatch adhesive...)
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06-02-2012, 07:43 AM
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#19
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Rivet Master
1988 25' Excella
1987 32' Excella
Knoxville
, Tennessee
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,095
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No, I do not think the tacky feel means the vinyl is compromised. I think the tacky fell does come from chemicals in the vinyl. You can clean the tacky off with Krud-Cutter, as mentioned above. My experience is with trailers in the mid 80's manf. A good scrubbing with the KC tames the sticky pretty well. Another good scrubbing 6 months later and it comes pretty clean. No vinyl is loose of compromised on either of the two I have done.
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06-02-2012, 07:50 AM
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#20
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4 Rivet Member
1976 27' Overlander
Missoula
, Montana
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 438
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Thanks, Bill - this is the kind of info that helps in the buying decision! Thank you.
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