Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-11-2006, 05:24 PM   #15
Silver Mist
 
LI Pets's Avatar
 
1977 31' Sovereign
Riverhead , New York
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,008
Images: 28
Yeh, I did not follow that 100%
__________________

__________________
Bob
'77 Sovereign Intl 31' CB
WBCCI R2 Rep VAC 11411 Metro NY VP

LI Pets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2006, 10:54 PM   #16
Registered User
 
Currently Looking...
Lethbridge , Alberta
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 16
Expandable Foam Insulation

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatdoc
Hi Geejay; Expandable foam is very dangerous to AS's. If you get a locked in pocket it will bulge or even blow out your skins as it expands under pressure.
Thanks, "Boatdoc"
We are talking about installing insulation with the inner skin off are we not? Urethane foam does not expand further after it has cured and if sprayed on an open surface there is no pressure to cause distortion of the substrate.

As I said, Avion sprayed the inside of the exterior skin when the outer shell was complete. They called it "Thermo-X" insulation. See page from 1989 brochure:http://www.gradeless.com/avion/1989/ed2/Page12.jpg

I feel this is superior to "hung" FG as in Airstreams.

Hmmm.....
__________________

__________________
GeeJay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2006, 12:52 AM   #17
Rivet Master
 
CaddyGrn's Avatar
 
1963 16' Bambi
Yreka , California
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,879
I would agree you should insulate the parts you are fixing. Besides you may be insulating the part someone sleeps next to. Ever sleep next to a cold Airstream wall.... brrrrr..... We had discussed at one time even using insulite (the stuff used when backpacking...) We used to use it just between us and the walls on our sailboat (not installed) and it really made a significant difference when in the cold. Moisture happens. Do what seems best for you and your pocketbook and go out camping and enjoy your Airstream!

Mrs. NorCal Bambi (traveling in S Tardis)
__________________
CaddyGrn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2006, 07:28 AM   #18
Rivet Master
 
boatdoc's Avatar
 
1973 Argosy 26
Norristown , Pennsylvania
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 644
Images: 1
Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeJay
We are talking about installing insulation with the inner skin off are we not? Urethane foam does not expand further after it has cured and if sprayed on an open surface there is no pressure to cause distortion of the substrate.

As I said, Avion sprayed the inside of the exterior skin when the outer shell was complete. They called it "Thermo-X" insulation. See page from 1989 brochure:http://www.gradeless.com/avion/1989/ed2/Page12.jpg

I feel this is superior to "hung" FG as in Airstreams.

Hmmm.....
Hi geejay; Applying a spay foam when trailer is constructed new, is most likely a fine idea however, there is much more to consider doing it under restoration process. The inner skins would have to be removed completely at the same time. Foam than can be sprayed onto the walls. Attention would have to be paid as to type of foam used. Semi rigid foam would most likely withstand the flexing of the trailer, but here is a added weight. Rigid, closed cell urethane foam may fracture and slowly disintegrate into dust in some areas.
Second issue at hand is that you would be foaming in wires for ever, as well as all other attaching hardware which can become a nightmare should you need to replace them.
Spray foam used in commercial buildings has weight disadvantage to insulation such as Prodex. Repair of dents will be more difficult etc. I firmly believe that the cost and effort of providing open channeling for the wiring alone would create much difficulties, and that makes insulating with bubble wrap a much better and simpler choice. Just to trim the foam to a level surface would be a lot of work. It is anyone's individual choice, but I would not consider it. Thanks, "Boatdoc"
__________________
boatdoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2006, 07:45 AM   #19
Silver Mist
 
LI Pets's Avatar
 
1977 31' Sovereign
Riverhead , New York
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,008
Images: 28
I agree, go foil, KISS
__________________
Bob
'77 Sovereign Intl 31' CB
WBCCI R2 Rep VAC 11411 Metro NY VP

LI Pets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2006, 07:49 AM   #20
Rivet Master
 
boatdoc's Avatar
 
1973 Argosy 26
Norristown , Pennsylvania
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 644
Images: 1
Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaddyGrn
I would agree you should insulate the parts you are fixing. Besides you may be insulating the part someone sleeps next to. Ever sleep next to a cold Airstream wall.... brrrrr..... We had discussed at one time even using insulite (the stuff used when backpacking...) We used to use it just between us and the walls on our sailboat (not installed) and it really made a significant difference when in the cold. Moisture happens. Do what seems best for you and your pocketbook and go out camping and enjoy your Airstream!

Mrs. NorCal Bambi (traveling in S Tardis)
Hi Mrs. NorCalBambi; I have never suggested to soldiermedic not to insulate.
I think that some have misunderstood content of the post. Surely he must insulate his walls. What I was trying to get across is, that use of sectional bubble wrap will not increase his overall R value, and that his total R value will only be that of fiberglass insulation, since the majority of insulation is fiberglass. Thank you, "Boatdoc"
__________________
boatdoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2006, 08:07 AM   #21
Silver Mist
 
LI Pets's Avatar
 
1977 31' Sovereign
Riverhead , New York
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,008
Images: 28
I disagree with that, the overall R value must average out higher.

Example years ago my grandparents had a home with no insulation in the attic or floors, just the walls.

One year they added insulation to the attic, there was a big improvement.

A few years later they did the floors, another big improvement.

The walls only had 2", the attic and floor had 4".

Based on your theory a house would have the R value of its windows, not!

I added Prodex to the floors (inside) and every wall that I opened up, maybe 40 Sq ft.

Everyplace else like in cabinets and under the sink, wheel wells, behind the built in sofa, the walls under the bed platforms will have Prodex glued in place.

This MUST help how could it not increase the overall R value?
__________________
Bob
'77 Sovereign Intl 31' CB
WBCCI R2 Rep VAC 11411 Metro NY VP

LI Pets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2006, 08:41 AM   #22
Rivet Master
 
boatdoc's Avatar
 
1973 Argosy 26
Norristown , Pennsylvania
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 644
Images: 1
Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lipets
I disagree with that, the overall R value must average out higher.

Example years ago my grandparents had a home with no insulation in the attic or floors, just the walls.

One year they added insulation to the attic, there was a big improvement.

A few years later they did the floors, another big improvement.

The walls only had 2", the attic and floor had 4".

Based on your theory a house would have the R value of its windows, not!

I added Prodex to the floors (inside) and every wall that I opened up, maybe 40 Sq ft.

Everyplace else like in cabinets and under the sink, wheel wells, behind the built in sofa, the walls under the bed platforms will have Prodex glued in place.

This MUST help how could it not increase the overall R value?
Hey Lippets; I need a break. Yes insulation helps this is why we install it. We are not talking about a house. Most modern house windows are thermal, in AS they are not. We are talking about the difference in R value between having for instance a 20% of bubble foil and 80% of original fiberglass insulation in the trailer. The 20% of sectional added bubble insulation will not make that much difference in overall R value of the trailer. "Boatdoc"
__________________
boatdoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2006, 09:30 AM   #23
Retired Moderator
 
john hd's Avatar
 
1992 29' Excella
madison , Wisconsin
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,644
Images: 40
foil bubble insulation?

i use it in my chicken coop, works good and keeps the birds at least 20 degrees warmer. however, the pullets like to pop the bubbles when they get bored.

not bad for basiclly a plywood box. i could see some applications in a trailer, some say the factory now uses it in some applications.

john
__________________
you call them ferrets, i call them weasels.
john hd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2006, 09:49 AM   #24
uwe
418
 
uwe's Avatar
 
2007 25' Safari FB SE
1958 22' Flying Cloud
1974 29' Ambassador
Yucca Valley , California
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: 1963 26' Overlander
Posts: 4,767
Images: 41
Send a message via Skype™ to uwe
Quote:
Originally Posted by soldiermedic
I am currently doing a partial floor replacement in my 68 Safari. Following the process that Stefroberts made almost famous, I took my lower interior panels off. Most of the insulation looks ok, but there are some spots that look pretty bad. I am interested in using the foil insulation due to it being waterproof, very efficient, and shapable. Has anyone in the past used this? If so did you double the thickness to fill the entire space, or just use a single sheet? Also, anyone know the rivet size for placing the panels back into the ribs once I finish?

Thanks,

SM
I learned from my research that the foil bubble works best if used continuously, and without gaps. It needs airspace on both sides to work properly. It also needs to be joined meticulously to perform at it's best.
AS a matter of fact, joining the sheets, and sealing the seams took just about as long as installing the material, in my case.
I imagine that it could work well as a partial insulation, so long that you seal it tightly against the ribs.
The insulation in my 1963 Overlander works remarkably well on hot days, as well as on cool nights. I would definitely use it again. The brand I used was Reflectix.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCN2943.jpg
Views:	176
Size:	213.3 KB
ID:	28519   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCN2945.jpg
Views:	162
Size:	226.0 KB
ID:	28520  

__________________
Uwe
www.area63productions.com
uwe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2006, 09:59 AM   #25
Rivet Master
 
soldiermedic's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
Florissant , USA
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,083
Holy Cow

The general concensus is to use this type of insulation. There should be an air gap on both sides...I could see using styrofoam blocks as spacers on the outer and inner skin. THe edges at the ribs should be caulked or taped to make it work better. Have I left anything out?
__________________
soldiermedic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2006, 12:14 PM   #26
Rivet Master
 
boatdoc's Avatar
 
1973 Argosy 26
Norristown , Pennsylvania
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 644
Images: 1
Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by soldiermedic
The general concensus is to use this type of insulation. There should be an air gap on both sides...I could see using styrofoam blocks as spacers on the outer and inner skin. THe edges at the ribs should be caulked or taped to make it work better. Have I left anything out?
Hey soldiermedic; You got it right.

Air gap on both sides by use of spacers.
Edges should be caulked with solid bead to form a vapor barrier.
No spacers are needed on inner skins if you glue the insulation to spacers on the outer skins.
Wires on top of bubble foil in case you ever have to replace them.
Make sure the insulation is not pushed in against the outer skins.
Good luck, "Boatdoc"
__________________
boatdoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2006, 01:20 PM   #27
Silver Mist
 
LI Pets's Avatar
 
1977 31' Sovereign
Riverhead , New York
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,008
Images: 28
I saw something that you can use the foils itself at the spacer material.

Cut 3/4" strips of the foil glue them on the metal.

Then place the insulation in.
__________________
Bob
'77 Sovereign Intl 31' CB
WBCCI R2 Rep VAC 11411 Metro NY VP

LI Pets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2006, 06:33 PM   #28
Addicted to Aluminum
 
A-Merry-Can's Avatar
 
1959 18' "Footer"
1964 24' Tradewind
1954 29' Liner
Woodstock , Georgia
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,015
for what it's worth, i didn't caulk my edges. i just made all the foil nice and snug. everyghint is taped in with carpet tape, and shimmed on both sides to keep it spaced evenly. if i were to do it over again (and i know i will be doing it again), i would use Uwe's method of gluing to one side. and having the other side totally free. i haven't gotten to install any panels yet, but when i do, it i should need to fish a wire through, and a spacer foam block is in the way, i'll pay for it.

i figure by the 4th or 5th one of tehse things, i'll have things figured out.



jp
__________________

__________________

8576
there's always room for one more!
A-Merry-Can is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Bubble smallfry 1955 - 1957 Bubble 4 08-17-2003 07:49 AM
Pipe insulation niftypkg Plumbing - Systems & Fixtures 1 09-22-2002 10:34 PM
Bunk in Bubble kzener40 General Interior Topics 3 09-22-2002 04:18 PM
Stripe on Bubble??? kzener40 Airstream Motorhome Forums 11 09-12-2002 07:40 AM
1957 Bubble International... BobbyW Our Community 0 05-18-2002 10:56 AM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.