What's the deal with not being allowed to bring your own firewood?

[Jammer]

EAB is the excuse.

However, state parks in those portions of Minnesota that lack ash trees still maintain this draconian policy. EAB does not have alternate hosts and if transported to a region where there are no ash trees, it will not reproduce.

Another DNR policy that lacks any sound basis in biology.

[tlavergne]

Not many places lack ash trees. They might in a few years when the EAB gets done blowing through our native ash population. There are experiments using 3 predatory wasps that only eat EAB. Hopefully that will eventually stop it. I still take firewood when I camp but I stick with species that do not have insect problems (beech for one). I also de-bark my firewood and keep it in the back of my truck wrapped in a tarp until I am ready to throw it on the fire.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by tlavergne

Not many places lack ash trees.

They only grow so far north.

[Gene]

Fun facts: In the 1870's, ash became a very popular wood for furniture. The grain is similar to oak, but tighter. In about 10 years, so much ash had been cut down and tastes had changed anyway, that people went back to oak. This was also a period when Eastlake designs were popularized, a reaction to the ornate Victorian furniture. A lot of early Eastlake furniture is ash, not oak. Eastlake was a British designer; he never produced furniture, just designs. Eastlake's designs provided the basis for Art Nouveau, Arts and Crafts, Craftsman, and other designs that became popular at the end of the Victorian era. I may even be right about this.

How do I know this?—I bought an ash Eastlake dining room table in the 1970's from a real estate agent and her much younger toy boy for next to no money (maybe $100) as she was slowly liquidating the family riches. There were also Eastlake chairs that may be oak or ash—I can't tell. I think they came for a couple of bucks each.

Ash, therefore, was once pretty much all cut down, and came back. Hopefully, it will come back again. We have lost elm trees and other species over the years. My 8th grade teacher used to talk about how the linden trees in NYC died when she was young—since I was in 8th grade (this was before junior high schools became popular) eons ago and that teacher seemed 800 years old then, that was a long, long time ago. There are die offs of aspen (sudden aspen death, SAD) that are not well understood. Noxious weeds like thistles are being spread all over. The automobile spreads a lot of this faster than it ever spread before as seeds stick to tires and bad bugs take a ride with cut wood.

Did I do another hijack? I seem to do that all the time.

Gene

[walter1]

I have a rather unique job.

I fly aerial surveys in a Cessna 182 for the US Forest Service in search of dead and dying trees caused by bark beetles, moths etc. then make GIS maps of # of affected trees per acre.

A flight over ANY of the 18 National Forests in California reveals large areas of orange trees, being killed by beetles.

In British Columbia it's now easier to map the live trees than the dead ones!

Please help save our forests. Do not translocate "firewood" just for momentary pleasure.

[DaveFL]

If you are not cooking or trying to chase mosquitos with smoke, please don't have a fire in the close quarters of most cg, and if you do, how about putting it out when you are finished. Nothing worse than having a cg filled with smoke from smolderin fires when you open the windows for some fresh air in the relative wilderness.

[Ganglin]

Originally Posted by Jammer

EAB is the excuse.

However, state parks in those portions of Minnesota that lack ash trees still maintain this draconian policy. EAB does not have alternate hosts and if transported to a region where there are no ash trees, it will not reproduce.

Another DNR policy that lacks any sound basis in biology.

Jammer - this is probably why you also have the ban rather than the State trying to pick individual parks that you can move wood to:

On May 14, 2009, spread of the emerald ash borer was confirmed by the Minnesota Department of Agriculture in St. Paul, Minnesota.[14] This represents the most westerly location it has been found thus far in North America.

[Dave Park]

Originally Posted by Jammer

EAB is the excuse.

However, state parks in those portions of Minnesota that lack ash trees still maintain this draconian policy. EAB does not have alternate hosts and if transported to a region where there are no ash trees, it will not reproduce.

Another DNR policy that lacks any sound basis in biology.

The EAB can live on the bark of trees without killing them, while spreading to other areas and looking for trees it prefers. So, the policy makes sense even if YOU can't see damage or disease spread.

[Frank's Trailer Works]

But, back to the original post....

you are absolutely right! Those bundles of four small logs for $5 is a scam. Without some kind of chemical starter it is very hard to even get going. I agree it is a scam. As long as they exploit the campers with expensive crap, people will continue to bring it from home. Part of the solution is to provide wood that reasonable and can actually be burned. The smokey campfire complaint is a direct result of badly seasoned firewood that is too big to get burning well.

I used to take wood with me. I have a good supply on hand since we heat with it. Lately I have stopped bringing it along. I generally try and buy it outside of the campground, for I get a better deal from someone up the road. If possible I collect my own from the woods nearby.

[wasagachris]

I have been following this thread fro a few days and thought I would chime in. I sell a 50 lb onion bag of seasoned hardwood for $5.75 which I buy from a local mill for $5.00. The bag contains a mix of larger body wood and smaller pieces of kindling to get it started. I'm not getting rich from this endevour just barely covering my overhead. The government is forcing us to take the stand of no outside firewood so don't blame the campground.
As for cutting your own firewood from downed and dead trees. One person doing this is no problem but if everyone visiting the campgrounds did this you would be robbing the forest of it's natural food to regenerate. Besides will everyone be curtious and only cut from downed trees. I have caught individuals using 100 year old pines for axe throwing practice. This tree died two years later from the damage caused by one careless individual. This tree will never be replaced in my lifetime and has irrevocably changed the landscape of this campsite.
I'm glad to see that only three people have responded negatively to this thread. There may be hope for the human race yet. Well alsmost all of us anyway.

[Dave Park]

Ironic, but the 50 lb bag probably limits your sales a bit, because people fear they won't be able to burn 50 lbs of wood before they leave and have to dump what's left!

One campground I staid at near Caddo Lake, East Texas, they had the wood out, in three sections based on size - kindling, sticks and logs. You could take what you liked, mix and match, for 20c/lb (that's *thumbtwiddles* $10 for 50 lbs) which seemed like a pretty good deal, and convenient for the campers. He'd also buy back the unburnt leftovers for 10c/lb!

[Danetree]

Originally Posted by Jammer

They only grow so far north.

Ash is native 400 miles north of your location [North of Winnipeg] and as far south as Mexico. Please understand the problem is real.

[varmonter]

There are several bugs that infest our trees. I used to think that the restriction was imposed to sell more firewood by the campground also.
Like not being able to bring water to a concert and then being charged 5 bucks a bottle inside.
After a trip out west last summer and seeing what this bug can do. I have
come full circle(well 180 i guess) . It is devastating.It is also well delineated by the Continental Divide (at least in CO in the RMNP).West of the CD it is much worse.In the east coast it is not a problem.But there are emerald ash borer and those big Asian goobers that are tearing up the trees here. As well as gypsy moths (another import we have all learned to live with)

I do not transport wood anymore. Recently here in Vermont we have had our right to trap minnows for fishing taken away.This is due to a virus that is spreading through the great lakes. In the few short years I have lived in VT (30 yrs to be exact) I have seen the spread of lamprey eels,Zebra mussels,Asian milfoil and a host of other exotic species all invading Lake Champlain and it's tributaries.Birds like cormorants and swans were non existent 15 yrs ago.All due to commercial shipping in the st Lawrence seaway. Big ocean going vessels dumping their ballast in the river.
We as the lil folks endure all the restrictions sanctioned on us
while the shipping industry continues it's seedy practices.[/rant]

Point is we don't need to spread these insects around any more than possible. If I live 10 mi from a state park and I am at the front line
of the emerald ash borers range.I just increased their range 10 miles further. By bringing wood in. Personally I think it is inevitable.We are just slowing it down by imposing restrictions.

When I was growing up we did not have this. But we did have
things like English sparrows and European Starlings being introduced into central park. The European starling started as 4 pairs introduced into
NYC back in the 40's..Any one here not have these birds in their back yard today? Point is we have learned a lot since then... Or have we?

[arcamedies]

Originally Posted by PA BAMBI II

I am noticing that in the last five years all of the campgrounds have freaked about some beetle that lives in downed firewood and heaven forbid you should bring your own firewood from "your" part of the country for fear of spreading this things' existence into their campground. Growing up this was no big deal.

I see it as just a scam and a way for the campground owners and State Parks to make money...selling a dinky bundle of firewood for $5. I have campfires at home...and will never pay to buy their wood just so I can have a campfire while camping.

Sometimes I bring along 2 x 4 and hard wood scraps from the wood shop...there aren't any beetles living on that kiln dried wood. I have never had anyone say anything about my bringing that wood, but the whole deal just irks me.

Can anyone shed any info on this; maybe help me see it in a different light?

I feel your pain, I just camped in Strasburg at White Oak and always had a campfire but with the beetle can't bring my own wood. But on the bright side hauling 30 lbs of dead wood will usually use 1.5 gallons of fuel costing $5 so it's an even Steven trade, plus less dusty and convienant if you want more wood.

On another note usually people have camp smokes not camp fires when it's above 85+ degrees and choke out the campground as long as the smoke is rolling away from their rig,they don't care, (it's only 95 and the air quality is zilch).

The last two trips I had the misfortune of being downwind of a fire (smoker) each time, one was cooking outside (smoldering fire) for two hours in 100 degree heat, guess he liked smoked burgers, gag.

Keep the shiney side up.

[Silverfoxrae]

Originally Posted by Alumatube

Dave, the chestnut unfortunately died almost completely out (billions were killed, seriously, BILLIONS), but people are trying to genetically re-engineer it to be more blight resistant. There are still 600 to 800 mature trees in part of Michigan, and others in other areas outside its normal range, like in the West, where settlers brought seeds with them to plant. Some also survive in Canada. There is one planted on the White House lawn that is apparently doing well!

There is a man in Connecticut, near me, who is working on the new Chestnut. We still have native American Chestnuts growing here in our woods, but they do not live longer than about twenty five years in most cases before the disease gets them. They keep trying though. As far as I know the new ones are crossbred and have been successful. I forget how long the crop has been growing, but it's been a while.

Rae

[Jabba]

From someone at ground zero, Michigan, take the warnings seriously. We thought that they were going overboard on the warnings too. The EAB went through here in a matter of just a couple years and decimated S.E. Michigan.
Entire neighborhoods have been totally changed by the ash trees either dying or having to be removed so they won't fall on someone (don't forget the cost in that). Nothing like having a nice shady yard one year and complete sun the next. Literally night and day. You can drive down the roads and see where the ash were by just the sheer number of dead trees.
I didn't realize there were that many here until they started dying. It has changed the whole forest dynamic in some areas by removing the canopy.
We've seen the devastion of beetles in the Smoky Mountains N.P. too. Yes, it can be a pain to have to buy wood, especially if it isn't seasoned. I'd rather pay a couple bucks vs looking at a woodlot of grey ghosts.

[pmclemore]

We live on a lovely, tidal, and yet fresh water river - the Mattaponi. Lovely until the bass fishermen became so mobile that they traveled all over the place and brought the weed Milfoil to us.

Not so lovely any more. If restrictions can prevent other types of Typhoid Marys from spreading joy where ever they travel, I'm in favor.

Pat

[Dave Park]

The original poster has never returned to post back this thread.

It would be nice if they returned and gave a revised opinion or.... something.

[jwvastine]

It's good to see that people are taking this seriously. We have lost so much forest in Arizona.

[cameront120]

If anyone still has doubts, please come visit central British Columbia and see the impact of the mountain pine beetle on our forests.