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10-24-2016, 10:29 PM
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#41
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3 Rivet Member
2016 28' International
Redmond
, Washington
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troutboy
That Victron stuff looks high $$$$. $3000 for a battery, wow! Is it really worth it? Can buy a lot of lead acid for that
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Victron's inverters are inline or a little less expensive than Magnums.
You're right on their batteries though, $1,000 for 90ah is pretty pricey. However all their stuff is CE rated and very high quality, to save money you can go with a Chinese made LiFePo battery.
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10-24-2016, 11:07 PM
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#42
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Rivet Master
2017 23' Flying Cloud
Parker
, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,772
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I'm just not sure that price difference is worth it for a boondocking camping rig. Not full time.... guess it will depend on how high maintenance my wife will be. If she goes full bore, hair dryer, curling iron, etc etc, then I am hosed......
__________________
Thanks,
Troutboy
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10-24-2016, 11:32 PM
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#43
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Rivet Master
Commercial Member
New Borockton
, Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgieselman
Victron's inverters are inline or a little less expensive than Magnums.
You're right on their batteries though, $1,000 for 90ah is pretty pricey. However all their stuff is CE rated and very high quality, to save money you can go with a Chinese made LiFePo battery.
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You have to get a chuckle out of yourself for that selective Chinese position. Yeah we all do it when it fits the narrative right? and my god that CE rating? you have me there Best to just own it right? Sometimes I think our Made in the USA products are like an ISIS flag to some and the same darn guy buying them retired early because he had to. Go figure. At least he had enough bank to get an Airstream one way or another, maybe not a late model. These guys need options and I'll be here for them.
__________________
Randy...Converters, Inverters, Trimetric, Surge Protectors, Zamp, Smartplug, AGM Batts
888-828-1893
Bestconverter.com
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10-25-2016, 10:37 PM
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#44
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3 Rivet Member
2016 28' International
Redmond
, Washington
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 68 Overlander
You have to get a chuckle out of yourself for that selective Chinese position. Yeah we all do it when it fits the narrative right? and my god that CE rating? you have me there Best to just own it right? Sometimes I think our Made in the USA products are like an ISIS flag to some and the same darn guy buying them retired early because he had to. Go figure. At least he had enough bank to get an Airstream one way or another, maybe not a late model. These guys need options and I'll be here for them.
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I think you're taking my comment as a dig however it wasn't meant that way.
I would have gladly purchased products made in the USA had their been any on par with the Victron offering and its feature set.
CE and UL ratings matter to me when it comes to safety.
If there's a high quality Chinese made battery and a company to stand behind it I would consider it and that was the point of my comment.
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10-26-2016, 06:12 AM
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#45
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Rivet Master
Commercial Member
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples
, Florida
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,508
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And don't forget that Victron is a Dutch company with a world-wide distribution network. You won't find a major yacht manufacturer that does NOT use their products.
They are like Apple in many ways; designing engineering their offerings in Holland ad then making them in their own factories....mostly in India, Indonesia and the far East. AFAIK, only their Lithium batteries are made in China.
I also prefer US made products, but as stated above, no one has the seamless interconnectivity for all their components that Victron has.
__________________
lewster
Solar Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
Victron Solar Components and Inverters, Zamp Solar Panels, LiFeBlue and Battle Born Lithium Batteries, Lifeline AGM Batteries
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10-30-2016, 11:25 AM
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#46
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2 Rivet Member
2014 22' FB Sport
Mill Valley
, California
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 36
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Just What I Did
Quote:
Originally Posted by KJRitchie
The Magnum remote is optional and used to program specific charging parameters for the specific battery type. The Magnum 1012 comes with the battery temperature sensor. We can't afford lithiums at this time. We'll see how the Lifelines will work out. I had to store my new Lifelines for a couple of months before delivering the trailer to the company doing the work and the voltage only dropped a 1/10 of a volt on each battery but it still showed 13v. I'm lucky to show 12.7v on my Interstates after resting for over a month after a full charge.
Kelvin
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I spoke with the local blue water sailboat outfitters. They set up systems that have to keep working on sail boats in the middle of the ocean.
On their advice, I went with a pair of Lifeline 6 volts in series for 220 AH coupled to a Magnum Hybrid inverter/charger. The Lifelines are Mil Spec AGM batteries. The "Hybrid" feature works in tandem with my Honda EU2000 to jointly power up the A/C, which the little Honda can't do by itself.
I use the batteries and inverter to run a toaster and a 750watt espresso/cappuccino machine every morning. No problem. I am sure it would handle a microwave. Runs a power drill just fine. I run the Honda every day or two to keep things charged up. The Magnum charges the batteries much faster than the charger that came in the Airstream.
I do recommend getting the remote and the temp sensor accessories for the Magnum.
Just what I did. I am happy with the setup for my needs.
Andrew
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10-30-2016, 02:29 PM
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#47
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Rivet Master
2017 23' Flying Cloud
Parker
, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,772
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Andrew, Good info. Do you have solar, or just genset. Is it the Magnum MSH 3012? How reliable is the AC startup. Once it's started does generator keep it running? I am thinking of that, as Lewster had suggested I might consider that.
Also, how is the magnum AC power routed? From Shore power to a breaker, then to magnum?
Thanks
Rich
__________________
Thanks,
Troutboy
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10-30-2016, 04:36 PM
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#48
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Rivet Master
Commercial Member
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples
, Florida
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,508
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There are a couple of ways to properly wire a Magnum MSH3012-M. One is by using a breaker from the main panel to route the 120VAC input to the Magnum and then use a sub panel for the 'inverter' circuits powered from the Magnum's 120VAC output. Magnum's internal auto transfer switch will 'pass thru' shore power to all of the sub panel circuits when the grid is available, and will power the entire sub panel from your batteries when it is not.
I prefer to replace the original power panel from Airstream with a dual bus combination panel that is actually both a main and sub panel in one unit. This way all of your circuits begin and end in the original space.
There are several good block diagrams in the Magnum manuals that can be found on their web site for a better visual.
Piece of cake!!
__________________
lewster
Solar Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
Victron Solar Components and Inverters, Zamp Solar Panels, LiFeBlue and Battle Born Lithium Batteries, Lifeline AGM Batteries
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10-30-2016, 10:08 PM
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#49
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Rivet Master
2017 23' Flying Cloud
Parker
, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,772
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Thanks Lewster, I looked at that manual. I was thinking of adding a new breaker, then running shore to that, then from there to Magnum, then just have magnum AC output back into original AS panel, to power every outlet and appliance if needed.
Do you have any recommendations for a dual bus panel? I think I saw a post of yours that had a nice one, with the DC distribution as well, and it fit in the existing AS hole where the parolees is.
Thx!
Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums
__________________
Thanks,
Troutboy
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10-30-2016, 10:18 PM
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#50
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Rivet Master
2017 23' Flying Cloud
Parker
, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,772
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I found this, it looks like what you are talking about :
http://rvpowerpartsplus.net/index.ph...roducts_id=531
Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums
__________________
Thanks,
Troutboy
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10-30-2016, 10:37 PM
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#51
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3 Rivet Member
2016 28' International
Redmond
, Washington
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 100
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There are multiple versions and 2 colors of the PD5500 series panel. If you find the black 30/30 panel somewhere let me know.
http://www.progressivedyn.com/pd5500_2.html
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10-30-2016, 11:25 PM
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#53
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Rivet Master
2017 23' Flying Cloud
Parker
, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,772
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Thx Mg (don't know your real name), this helped to find some online retailers!
Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums
__________________
Thanks,
Troutboy
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10-31-2016, 06:14 AM
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#54
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Rivet Master
Commercial Member
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples
, Florida
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgieselman
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That's the one!!!
__________________
lewster
Solar Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
Victron Solar Components and Inverters, Zamp Solar Panels, LiFeBlue and Battle Born Lithium Batteries, Lifeline AGM Batteries
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04-26-2020, 12:07 PM
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#55
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Rivet Master
2006 25' Safari
St. Augustine
, Florida
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,670
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Quote:
For many people, they might be better off to buy a couple of smaller inverters and hook one appliance to each, rather than trying to run everything off of one inverter. This is especially true of 12 volt setups, where going over 1000 watts starts to really push the wire size.
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Ah Ha. That would explain something that seems to be dominant in the industry- a few inverter outlets instead of all outlets.
Considering what you said just changed my plan. I was considering a new all-in-one unit for my AS to allow for inverter power at any outlet or appliance. I often wondered why AS and other companies made OEM units with 1-2 inverter outlets. I thought it might be just inverter (type) cost but now I understand it is much more cost to provide heavier wiring throughout than just install a slightly more expensive inverter and be done with it.
That also means that most likely, the OEM wiring is not designed for it. Based on this idea, would that not be the case?
__________________
WBCCI 8653/AIR 60240
2022 Ford F150 PowerBoost Platinum w/7.2KW
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04-26-2020, 12:36 PM
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#56
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Rivet Master
2016 25' Flying Cloud
Jupiter
, Florida
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodsterinfl
Ah Ha. That would explain something that seems to be dominant in the industry- a few inverter outlets instead of all outlets.
Considering what you said just changed my plan. I was considering a new all-in-one unit for my AS to allow for inverter power at any outlet or appliance. I often wondered why AS and other companies made OEM units with 1-2 inverter outlets. I thought it might be just inverter (type) cost but now I understand it is much more cost to provide heavier wiring throughout than just install a slightly more expensive inverter and be done with it.
That also means that most likely, the OEM wiring is not designed for it. Based on this idea, would that not be the case?
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Not sure I understand the concern. It's 120V AC to each outlet whether you're connected to shore power or getting 120V from the batteries through the inverter. I think the reason why my unit only provided power to a few outlets is because it was only a 1000W unit. It couldn't power things like the microwave or a coffee maker.
When we had our 3000W Victron MultiPlus installed, Lewster connected it to all the 120V outlets, and we haven't had any issues with the wiring to the outlets.
__________________
"A good traveler has no fixed plans, and is not intent on arriving." - Lao Tzu
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04-26-2020, 06:44 PM
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#57
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Rivet Master
2012 30' International
1997 25' Safari
1967 20' Globetrotter
Burlington
, Ontario
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,499
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Lewster will most likely provide some direction on wire size but I think it is the cable size from the inverter to the batteries that may have to be increased as the inverter capacity increases. The wire size to the outlets is ok. Jim
__________________
Jim
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04-27-2020, 06:24 AM
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#58
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Rivet Master
2007 30' Classic
KW
, Ontario
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 997
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Bluesea website has a great wire size calculator http://circuitwizard.bluesea.com/#
Also, just by playing around with the calculator you can see that by locating the inverter further away from your batteries you will have to go up in wire size. Also, the longer the appliance runs the more the wire will heat up which also means going with a larger wire.
There are certain advantages with 2 different sizes of inverters. One is that a larger inverter will have larger power consumption which means if you are using it to charge a laptop you are wasting power. The down side is you need another place to mount it that can also dissipate heat build up. Mounting one inverter in an RV is already a challenge. But I would still go this route. When you are using a toaster or coffee maker or MW your run time is relatively short. But charging a laptop can take a while.
The problem in RVs is that the batteries are 12V which means you have a much higher current draw vs 48V which you might have in an off grid home. Therefore your wire size has to be up sized accordingly. The closer the inverter is to your source the cheaper the wire cost will be and you might be able to use smaller gauge wire.
On the 120V side it doesn't matter. You can go a much longer distance without running into wire issues. For most RVs that means regular 14 gauge wire will suffice for anything up to 15 amps, which will power your microwave or your toaster, but probably not at the same time for most inverters. If you have loads of room and money you can go with a large inverter that can put out 30 amps and power and power all of your RV. But you will need the battery bank to support it. But then you will need ability to recharge that battery bank.
Limitations limitations. Pick what you need then figure out the cost. I find that I don't need anything more than the ability to charge my laptop. Everything else is overkill. Some people here specialize in it. Is it nice to have, sure, but do I need it, no. You decide (or your pocket book).
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04-27-2020, 06:44 AM
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#59
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Rivet Master
2022 25' Flying Cloud
NCR
, Ontario
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,099
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i use the victron converter/inverter. it was a wise decision.
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04-27-2020, 08:19 AM
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#60
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Rivet Master
2012 30' International
1997 25' Safari
1967 20' Globetrotter
Burlington
, Ontario
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,499
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What gator.bigfoot said.
__________________
Jim
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