Ultimate Boondocking build out

[Albatrill]

Hi All! I am a long time reader, first time poster. With the economy the way it is, I am sure many more people are going to Airstreams for full time living. I have never owned an AS, but I have wanted to rebuild an old 60`s or 70's AS for a while and lately the bug has really hit me. So, in my quest to build an ultimate Mobile Home, I want to start to compile info for when I rebuild an AS, and I want to plan it from the very beginning to be the ultimate Boondocking AS, to where I can easily go for 30 days at a time with the capacity to store enough Food, Water, and Gas that I dont have to make any other trips. I also have an SUV that i can store lots of supplies in, and plan on getting a giant Thule basket for storing gas cans and 5 gallon water bottles.

I am thinking about a 23-29ft (ideally 25-27ft) AS, gutted. I am going to build it out completely custom, I have no desire to keep anything original, or for that matter to even have a table. I'm planning on Building it with a full size bed, extra large fridge with freezer, stove/oven, microwave, bath/shower (to save space), only 1 sink (in the kitchen, not bathroom), and try to avoid building physical cabinets or closets and instead use Wire's for hanging clothes and have free standing draws that can be hooked to the wall. The rest I want relatively open so I can rearrange things (1 lounge chair, 1 office chair, 1 small desk with keyboard tray), and would ideally like a projector I can use in an "office" area and can also use while laying in bed to watch movies. one reason to not have closets is that I want to build a tiny gym with a folding mat, exercise ball, and rollers to use with a bike, along with storage room for 2-3 bicycles. This might sound like a lot, but Airstreamers know how well one can arrange space if you are smart, and I think I can do all this in a 25ft, or at least 27.

So, questions... Can I do a double water heater? I have read that even new airstreams only have a 6 gallon heater, and this seems REALLY small to someone coming from a house with 45 gallon water heater.

My other main concern is the bathroom. I am an endurance athlete (cyclist primarily but also do some running), so I consume a lot of calories, so... I also use the restroom a lot. What is the easiest way to dump the tanks?

I found this awesome plastics company that makes holding tanks that can be attached to the frame of the AS Inca Plastics Inc. how many can I feasibly attach? I want to be able to carry at least 100 gallons with me, but dont know if its smarter to do this with a water bladder or plastic containers?

Energy: I am thinking of a dual solar panel and battery along with a generator (like the Honda camping one's) but my concern with the generator is running it in the bad weather like rain and hail. Any other suggestions?

If you have any other comments, suggestions, or questions feel free to jump in, I would like to compile here a giant list of resources for building features into an airstream!

[InsideOut]

Well, sounds like an ambitious undertaking...

"ultimate Boondocking AS, to where I can easily go for 30 days at a time with the capacity to store enough Food, Water, and Gas that I dont have to make any other trips.".

Wow! That's a tall order. Your biggest issue IMO is going to be water - both fresh & waste. Water is pretty heavy at 8.35 lbs per gallon. To have 100 gallons fresh plus 100+ gallons waste would weigh in at over 1670 lbs not to mention the space it would take up - also, don't forget the additional 6-12 gallons in the water heater(s) itself. A standard 60's or 70's frame doesn't have enough space or strength to support all that without some pretty major modifications. Now of course, depending on where you boondock, you may be able to run grey water on the ground - but even still, that's a lot of water. We boondock quite frequently and our 30 gallon fresh water supply, when used frugally, can last 4 or 5 days. By frugally I mean no long showers - more like "bird baths" or navy showers - which doesn't sound like an issue you would be willing to compromise on being an athlete who wants long showers.

The black tank would need to be emptied with a "blue boy" if you don't want to move the trailer within that 30 days (because do you really want 30 days of $#!+ hanging around with you?). That's not a big deal, we do it with our small black tank every couple of days - but you will have to leave your campsite to do so. I don't know, pull it behind your bike for an extra training exercise!

Typically, fresh water is stored above the floor and waste water (black & grey) are stored below the floor - however, they can be above the floor too. Basically, assuming the frame is reinforced to handle the load - the way it is arranged you would have multiple tanks under the floor. Each would be approximately 42"x20" +/- to fit between the frame members. The number that could be used would depend on the length of your trailer. You can see what a empty frame looks like here in post #169 how we placed ours in post #158 of our restoration thread. The large tank in the front is one of our gray water tanks that we had custom made to maximize the capacity available. The two gray tanks combined hold about 18 gallons. The 1/4-round black tank holds about 11 gallons and sits above the floor. You can peruse my other posts in that thread to get more info.

Our 30 gallon fresh water is about 15"x12"x36-42" long and sits above the floor under a bed.

Anyways...just some additional thoughts here - things for you to ponder...not saying it's impossible, just that without some major custom modifications you're not going to find a vintage Airstream thats "off the shelf" and going to meet your needs.

Shari

[Boondocker]

I can go a week and a half with no problem. If I add a 50 gallon fresh water tank to the bed of the pickup I am sure I could do three weeks. Gray water can often be drained out, however, I doubt storing black water for a month is feasible.

As to the Mega water heater, you can get a 10 gallon or an on-demand which would be essentially an endless tank. If you are going to be boondocking, you are going to have to learn to conserve water. We are talking about trying to get to the 5 gallon per person per day range. If you are in an area where water is available you might be able to purify it.

Realistically, long term boondocking would require fresh and waste water tanks in the bed of your truck used to relay water and waste from dump stations.

Food for a month is easy except for perishables. Veggies and milk stay good only so long.

[2airishuman]

good points rod' but u've spent a few years learning and developing compromises that work for your lifestyle...

water conservation is an example and the o.p. may have trouble learning to take a 1 gallon shower.

Originally Posted by Gen Disarray

...I doubt storing black water for a month is feasible...

IF peeing outdoors, so as not to FILL the black tank, i have often 'stored' black water for a month or LONGER, without issues.

but the poop tank on my trailer is 35+ gallons.

Originally Posted by Albatrill

...If you have any other comments, suggestions, or questions feel free to jump in...

welcome

i don't agree with the ECONOMY=airstream connection for alternative living.

these things are generally more expensive that comparable rvs or other mobile homes...

so folks needing 2 pinch pennies for living are best to look at other living options that are NOT stream based.
__________

30 day is a LOT of supplies, unless it's all dry goods, dehydrated food and so on

FRESH food isn't fresh at 30 days regardless of the storage methods.

and 30 days of water could be up to 1500 gallons (check your household average water consuption)
__________

streams are not and never were built for full time habitation.

that doesn't mean one can't bend that notion, but COMPROMISES are needed to do so...
__________

a 6 gallon water heater is PLENTY, recycles quickly and meets MANY of the conditions for rv living.
__________

the SUV otoh is a problem.

30 days OR full timing typically results in a LOT of gear that won't fit in the stream...

most SUVs have 1. small storage space and 2. limited PAYLOADs...

so a full size truck or van or box truck provides much greater capacity for hauling crap.

1 full timer here hauls with a ford box van and has solar on top and a freezer in the van for food, along with tools, motobike and so on...

u cannot do THAT with an suv.
_________

the simplest way to HAUL water would be a bladder system inside a truck/van bed with the CAPACITY to carry it.

it's wasted time to try REengineering an old stream to carry 100 gallons of water...

and very expensive to execute.
_________

the whole gym/workout/bike storage space INSIDE a stream...

suggests NO understanding of what living in 160 square feet of space requires.

so it's back to TV for storage and USING the OUTdoors for working out.
_________

you offer up NO info on budget, where u plan to camp/live or rvin' history.

most campgrounds have showers, laundry, hook ups and so on.

and USING those facilities would be LESS expensive in the near term.

the average FULL TIMER bails out in ~2 years.

that's right 2 years.

so it's wildly expensive to spend much money on the utopian boondocker myth...

without some experience and accumulated time living in an rv.

buy one ready to USE and try it first.
___________

rebuilding is fine, totally redesigning ok, but REinventing is typically a scheme that goes no where and sucks the coin purse dry quickly.

not suggested as a discouraging thought but true generally.
___________

minimalist build-outs can be VERY nicely done and for not a lot of coin...

IF the ideal donor stream is uncovered and NO major structures need make overs...
___________

100s of folks post some half baked idea here that quickly cools in the first 20-50 posts....

but many others DO succeed.
___________

Originally Posted by Albatrill

...I would like to compile here a giant list of resources for building features into an airstream!

that's already been done.

it's called the archives and should u spend adequate time reading, mining and uncovering the gems already posted...

that can be your 'giant list'.

for example here's a member with basically the era of trailer that can work...

and with a minimalist interior and usage that includes months of time...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f462...ics-39783.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f462...ics-47492.html

not exactly your needs but close enough based on what little we know.
__________

it's UNexciting but

1. start with a budget/personal inventory, related to $$, time, skills, personal resources and so on...

2. spend a LOT of time reading and collecting bits here, include LEARNING some of the many issues/limitations a SILVER TUBE includes.

3. RENT an rv and go somewhere for a few weeks, ANY rv.

4. sketch out WHERE u plan to live with an rv, free boondocking is LARGELY a myth novices imagine is easy...

good luck but keep in mind chasing this dream is NOT easy in any economy....

cheers
2air'

[mello mike]

Utlimate Boondocking Build Out (for camping 1 week or less):

1. At least 2 batteries (I prefer 6v)
2. A 125 watt solar system
3. One Honda EU2000I Generator
4. A 100 gallon fresh water tank in your tow vehicle
5. A 1000 watt Inverter-Charger (Xantrex or Magnum)

For camping greater than 1 week:

Add a 100 gallon black water tank to your tow vehicle (Jimmini does this and it works great for him)

[airbassador]

Aluminitus! Beware... Choose your first AS wisely, not on emotion.


I think you're on the right track, many a person has abandoned their airstream project and an empty shell is the way to go. However, if you've never had a travel trailer, taking apart the systems yourself can teach you a lot about why things are the way they are. Don't deviate too much from factory systems layout 'cause it's all there for balance, etc.

Good luck, and welcome.

[Over59]

Your first limitation is the frame and axles. Plan on new axles. You will need a solid frame. You may think you can save money and convince yourself the axles look Ok and the frame "should be good". Buy one that has new axles or replace them yourself with ones sized for your design.
I carry 85 gallon fresh. 50 up front (as needed) and 35 under the kitchen area. I have a 50 gallon grey tank. The sinks and shower empty into this above floor. It sits right over the axles under one of the twin beds. The water from this is used to flush the marine head into a 50 gallon black tank. Also above floor opposite the gray tank, over the axle and under the other twin bed. There is no reason for them to be all full at the same time. If I start out with 85 fresh I end up with 85 gallon grey and black. So your weight is the fresh water capacity unless you hook up to a supply. Of course you would know enough to dump rather than carry full fresh and waste tanks. I can pump out the grey or pump it into the black. The black tank is emptied by a pump. Both can be gravity drained but it would take awhile.

I have two 6volt 220 amp batteries. I am currently installing two more and 320 watts of solar. The roof angle of at best 20 degrees, 22 degrees less than my latitude. (winter ideal would be +15 and summer -15 from 42).
That's why I will have 4 panels.

This should give us one week in comfort or two with conservation. The limit is fresh water for drinking at 1 gallon /day/person.

The next upgrade will be the ability to put ground water into the grey tank.
The ability to sanitize fresh water from a source that may be compromised (this is a hugh challenge to do right). There's some great stuff out there but it is pricey and except for the handpump models uses lots of power...

We look forward to being able to travel without regard to having city services available. The limiting condition will be propane for heat, refrig, and hot water. I have no plans to go beyond the 2 #30's we now have.

What you are considering is alot of work, alot of money, and very rewarding. you will spend more than buying a ready to go trailer by half again at least if you do it right.

[buckmaster]

has anyone thought about using an incinerating toilet to eliminate the Black water issue?

[Albatrill]

After thinking about this issue some more I have decided that I really want a 34' Silver Streak, between the model year 1977 and 1985. If I am going to go through all the trouble, expense and hassle of a completely custom trailer I have decided that I do not want something that turns out to be too small. Plus I will probably want to take a piano/keyboard (the electronic ones that are small) and tons of "fun" stuff like bikes, guns, kayaks, etc, all of which will fit in a 30+ footer much easier.

Buckmaster, I would love to hear more about the "incinerating toilet" sounds like a great idea!

2Air, your post really got me thinking, especially about filling up the black tank with Pee. I happen to pee a lot, and drink a lot of water. One of the things I am trying to figure out is: how can I create a pass-through urinal system? what if I added a 2nd, smaller toilet, that was a urinal only, and basically create a pipe pass through to the bottom of the trailer, with a fine mesh screen to prevent bugs and other creepy crawlers from coming in. The other problem with this is that I would need to figure out how to create a "cut off" as to completely insulate the trailer.

Another thing I have thought of is creating a Roof entrance, exactly like a submarine. There are tons of reasons to do this, for safety primarily (what if there is something is preventing you from leaving the regular door, or what if you are surrounded by bears and want to go through the roof to fire a warning shot to scare them away), but this is something that I would need to put a lot of thought into - has anyone seen it done before?

[richie rich]

You're post is killer! The biggest problem is water.Maybe a stream or lake location where you can filter a water supply.The freezer could be more of a hassle than it's worth. Think about canned meats ,veggies and fruit. 30 days in the woods could be great,even life altering but listening to a generator just might spoil the experience. Save yourself the time and effort of remodeling for space by erecting temporary work out quarters.(2x4s and 6 mil plastic) or a large tent. It all can be a grand adventure but be wary ,bring a medical kit just in case.AND A CAMERA. Document it all. We love pictures!

[CAPTNDAVIE]

I have a very similar idea. Minimal stuff inside; bedroom, bathroom, and maybe a closet. Some kind of bunks for the kids but I am thinking of foldable bunks. Cooking would be done outside. Room inside for canoe, mountain bikes, etc.

[Albatrill]

Greetings everyone, thanks for the ideas!

I finally got a trailer - its a 1977 Silver Streak 32ft Rear Bath! Photos: Picasa Web Albums - 11201877028158876... - 1977 Silver S...

it needs a lot of work, so I will definitely be doing a total renovation and will try to incorporate as many of these ideas as possible.

[slowmover]

A simple way to look at it: Inside for eating & sleeping. Outside for all else. Thank the gods on rainy/cold days for a warm, dry place. (Or an air-conditioned one). Trailers have limitations, and re-engineering them is, IMO, beyond cost-prohibitive.

Trailers are best when outdoor conditions meet the idea of where you want to be outdoors on vacation. Lots of heating and cooling days leave them gasping after awhile, and they are energy hungry boogers. (But a lot better than a wall tent).

For the ideas above, a pickup with topper, a LWB van . . a trailer . . and a huge screen room with (hey!) wall tent attached might be a better answer.

[bootsie]

Hi, interesting thread. I found a website with an incinerating toilet that looks interesting, the SR-5 model. The company says you can use them in an RV, still looking for a thread about this toilet to see if anyone has done this yet, takes time to read a lot of posts. Check this out.

ECOJOHN l Portable Incinerating Toilets

I am a newbie also, don't have a AS yet; need to retire first, am doing lot's of research at this stage. Good luck with your Silver Streak and post photos of your progress.

[bootsie]

I emailed EcoJohn last night and this is their reply, a bit high priced, and I asked them about anyone using it in an RV and that they didn't answer so I will have to call them and ask at some point. I did see the thread about the Sewer Solution and that sounds interesting, so what to do. Just trying to figure things out at this point.



SR SERIES – A Waterless Incinerating Toilet
The SR series have a few different models; one model that is ideal for low usage (SR5), and one model that can handle higher usage and a tougher environment (SR12). The SR5 models run on Propane, and the SR12 models use Propane, Natural Gas, or Propane as its fuel source. The Propane tank can be installed outside the building (a 20 lbs bbq tank or bigger sizes), or you can connect it directly with existing propane tank in the house if that is available.
The SR has a very unique design which makes it extremely easy to install, operate, and maintain. A major advantage with this unit compared to other composting and incinerating toilets is the efficiency and how clean it is. Since it burns all the waste immediately, there is no waste that is left inside the toilet that causes any bad odor. In addition, the toilet is equipped with a rinse button; by pressing it one can rinse water in the bowl/auger to ensure that it stays clean. As an option, we also provide bowl liners that can be placed in the bowl before usage. The water reservoir that is located inside the unit is easy to access when it is time for refill, and it holds ¼ gallon of water.
The SR toilet is extremely efficient and it eliminates any need for unpleasant waste handling; all the liquid waste, paper, and waste get incinerated into a very small amount of ashes which only needs to be emptied a few times per year. A built in circuit card monitors the incineration process and make sure that everything works as it should. Some great features with this unit is that it can handle multiple usages in a row, and it can handle colder climates; since its patented technology incinerates the waste in a burn chamber there is no risk of freeze ups or malfunctioning in colder climates.
Although the units use either Propane, Natural Gas, or Diesel as the fuel source, they also require a little bit of electricity. They can either be hooked up to 120V AC, or 2 x 12V DC batteries. If batteries are being used, we recommend to connect solar system to it, that will keep the batteries fully charged at all times.

The SR starts its incineration process immediately after each “flush”, but it will automatically shut down its process if someone uses it (if the lid is up, it will not burn). After the lid has been closed again, it will automatically pick up and finish the prior burn cycle. A short cycle (liquid) takes about 5-10 minutes, and a long cycle (waste) about 25-30 minutes.
Applications: cabins, guest houses, pool houses, commercial buildings, and mobile restroom trailers for work crews etc.
Pricing
MODEL PRICE (US$) DESCRIPTION
SR5-P12 $3,695 Operates on 12V DC and Propane
SR5-P120 $3,895 Operates on 120V AC and Propane
SR12-P120 $5,195 Operates on 120V AC and Propane
SR12-N120 $5,195 Operates on 120V AC and Natural Gas
SR12-D120 $5,495 Operates on 120V AC and Diesel
SR12-D12 $5,495 Operates on 12V DC and Diesel

Capacity
SR5: 4-5 people
SR12: 8-10 people

Included with purchase

• SR Toilet
• 8 ft Standard Chimney System (6 in)

- The chimney system includes 6’’ double wall pipes (2x4ft), roof support, firestop, flashing, storm collar, and chimney cap

• 10 Bowl Liners

Not Included
·Batteries
·Propane Tank

Options

• Solar Panel Kit with Charge Controllers - $400
• Catalytic Converter - $160
• Chimney Fan - $160
• Bowl Liners – 100 pcs/$45

* It is possible to vent out the chimney through the wall instead of vertically out through the roof, however some extra chimney parts are needed.

Availability & Shipping Cost
2-3 weeks; $300

If you are interested in ordering any of our toilets or have any questions, please feel free to contact us at any time: 1-866-ECOJOHN.

Thank you.

Customer Service
Global Inventive Industries, Inc.
17150 Newhope St. Ste. 707
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
USA

[Ganaraska]

Depending where you are boondocking you could build your own outhouse. In the old days travellers dug a "gopher hole" for the gray water to drain into. A buried 45 gallon drum with axe holes in it makes an efficient cesspit. Many campgrounds used them for years with no problems in the old days.

Is this going to be on land you own? That would make it easier to add some permanent or semi permanent amenities.

Another thing to keep in mind is that a trailer takes quite a shaking up while on the move. Your fixtures must be built with this in mind. They must be sturdy and made to keep your things from being thrown around.

[Hibby]

My wife and I have a 22 sport, and we prefer to be off the grid and away from the world whenever we have the opportunity. We have dual batteries and are considering the Honda 2000i generator just to have AC power occasionally, but the biggest issue is running out of water. Our AS has a 20 gallon tank.

We have found a relatively simple, and inexpensive solution. We carry four 7-gallon aqua-tainers from Reliance Products (Reliance Products - This is Our Environment) that we bought at Gander Mountain (Amazon also carries them) and a simple $2.00 flexible plastic funnel. It allows us to quickly refill our water tank, and they are easily filled at home and carried by one person. If 7 gallons at a time is too heavy (approx. 50 lbs.), they also make smaller sizes.

[Hibby]

Out of curiosity, is anyone currently using a Honda newer 2000i generator? Are you happy with how quiet it is? Or any comments on comparable products?