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Old 09-28-2014, 08:54 PM   #71
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I have solar, propane, food, and a 22, but would be done once my wine supply runs out.
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Old 09-28-2014, 11:02 PM   #72
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I have solar, propane, food, and a 22, but would be done once my wine supply runs out.
My thoughts exactly!


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Old 09-28-2014, 11:17 PM   #73
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I just returned from 22 days camped in the sage brush of eastern Oregon. My only source of power used was from a 100 watt solar panel from AM Solar that I installed myself. My 2 group 24 batteries never got below 65%, even when I used some furnace heat when the temperatures dropped into the high 30's. I must admit, however, that I am extremely frugal with power usage. And I had one advantage in that I was camped in my 1949 Boles Aero as the roads would have been impassable for my AS Safari. The Boles has all LED lighting, a hand water pump, and no power needed for the refrigerator. I made no effort to limit my use of lights and used the furnace for heat until the sun came up in the mornings. I had my trusty Honda EM650 generator standing by but it was never needed. I have no AC, but a nearby river to jump in and some shade provided all the cooling I needed.
Since I have more trailers than money I mounted the solar panel on my pickup canopy and plug in to whichever trailer I am using at the time. AM Solar was very helpful in sizing my system according to anticipated needs (and $$$ in my pocket!) and helped with design for future installation of an additional 100 watt panel, which looks like I will not need.
So..... I will continue to pack the little Honda generator (insurance) and rely on the solar for future trips.
Next I will test the solar with the Safari and hope I do not need to buy two Honda 2000's...................
Sam
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Old 09-29-2014, 05:24 AM   #74
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Samb - That's our plan as well. We are going to load our canopy top with solar and plug the trailer in.

Ray - Thank you for your insight. Learned a couple of things that will benefit us.
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Old 09-29-2014, 02:12 PM   #75
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Here's yet more opinion. Living and working from an RV for years on end. Your agreement not required (lightly said):

One of the reasons I bought a used TT was so that money went towards upgrades which I found suitable. And the longer I am in this 35' condominium (for it is genuinely BIG) the more I find myself leaning towards maximal capacity. As in, this is not a trailer that is going to be pulled by a mid-size or even full-size SUV it is 1T-truck-necessary for anything but being taken in for local service. The tongue weight is just too high (well past 1k-lbs). So I don't feel constrained by the thought of additional battery capacity, or number of solar panels (think Class A moho sized roof).

Hell, it already has a washer-dryer so I've been looking at VESTA dishwashers (good report by a travelling family in a thread hereabouts). No reason not to go for a truly big water pump/accumulator combo, or that I already plan to change to the factory-optional 90-gl fresh water tankage. Two TV's, check. Wi-fi, check. Several types of 2-way radios, check. Microwave/convection combo, check. Etc. Plenty of electrical draw. A second A/C is likely, as is a change to 50A service.

But, as the OP noted in his first or second post, the upfront cost of solar is high. $10k for some systems I've looked at. And I am no more enamored of RV parks than most as that is where I am most of the time. Yes, if I want to, no if I don't (the need for A/C would be the deciding factor . . . which I tend to think of as Northerners do about winter storms). Nothing says I have to use any of those things. But, as this is a full-time house, not just a vacation-mobile, the extended range of a big solar system (versus just "barely adequate" I mainly see) has even more appeal. It is not either/or, generator or solar.

The generator is the weak link, not solar. I live and until recently mainly worked in South Texas. Running oilfield loads to drilling rigs. Where I sign in with your RV'ng kin at every gate (Gate Guards). They are supplied with (hold your hats) 25KW diesel generators. And even then can have a hard time with adequate electricity in harsh, hot & dusty conditions.

There are deliveries when I have time to visit with the GG. A year or so ago it was a couple from Minnesota in a new, 35ft+ Class A. With a big solar system. A retired banker and his wife. Not their first rodeo as is said down here. And no problems with the supplied generator as it does not have to carry the entire load if necessary. (I'd like to have the 7500W diesel ONAN he has aboard his coach in my diesel pickup -- and have examined a few oilfield service trucks so equipped; a good friend does service on these and I can find the fabricators to meet ONAN installation spec hereabouts).

Solar is the key. Generators are a weak sister crutch on anything but a light load, low time use schedule.

For most TT's it is the battery weight that is the limitation. Other than that, solar is now, IMO, the default position. The A/S optional system may not be the best choice, but solar itself is.

Anyone care to guess the output of my Silver Streak 1989 factory-installed two-panel solar system? Of what it would be today? The generator one may have bought at that same time is close enough to identical as to make a comparison to one today meaningless.

I believe I'll install the optional 220A alternator on the diesel engine and make the appropriate wiring to charge truck and house batteries separately or together.

Increasing the size of the propane tankage ranks more highly with me than does, at this point, any size of generator.

1] Water capacity is first.

2] Propane makes RV'ng itself possible.

3] Electricity is not an essential.

Heat water, cook food, keep perishables fresh. All else is a long ways down.

That said, it makes more and more sense to me to equip a TT for any set of conditions. Things may change. The more versatile the TT, the better off I am.


Good thread. Best to all

Ross

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Old 09-29-2014, 03:30 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Pagey View Post
Samb - That's our plan as well. We are going to load our canopy top with solar and plug the trailer in.

Ray - Thank you for your insight. Learned a couple of things that will benefit us.
I just completed my install of 3 100w flex panels on the cap of my truck with 6 1/2 ft box. Fit so well between the roof rack rails they can hardly be seen. Trial run worked greet. I had the Trimetric TM2030 and companion controller SC2030 already on board. Plug to the truck is a Pollak 2pin capable of up to 4awg cable and an Anderson weather proof connector on the other end of 21ft of #6 welding cable. I'm going to make up a shorter one for use while we are driving.
The only other thing left to do will be to replace the Interstates with 2 Crown 235's after I fix the battery box to fit them.


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Old 09-29-2014, 09:11 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowmover View Post
Here's yet more opinion. Living and working from an RV for years on end. Your agreement not required (lightly said):



One of the reasons I bought a used TT was so that money went towards upgrades which I found suitable. And the longer I am in this 35' condominium (for it is genuinely BIG) the more I find myself leaning towards maximal capacity. As in, this is not a trailer that is going to be pulled by a mid-size or even full-size SUV it is 1T-truck-necessary for anything but being taken in for local service. The tongue weight is just too high (well past 1k-lbs). So I don't feel constrained by the thought of additional battery capacity, or number of solar panels (think Class A moho sized roof).



Hell, it already has a washer-dryer so I've been looking at VESTA dishwashers (good report by a travelling family in a thread hereabouts). No reason not to go for a truly big water pump/accumulator combo, or that I already plan to change to the factory-optional 90-gl fresh water tankage. Two TV's, check. Wi-fi, check. Several types of 2-way radios, check. Microwave/convection combo, check. Etc. Plenty of electrical draw. A second A/C is likely, as is a change to 50A service.



But, as the OP noted in his first or second post, the upfront cost of solar is high. $10k for some systems I've looked at. And I am no more enamored of RV parks than most as that is where I am most of the time. Yes, if I want to, no if I don't (the need for A/C would be the deciding factor . . . which I tend to think of as Northerners do about winter storms). Nothing says I have to use any of those things. But, as this is a full-time house, not just a vacation-mobile, the extended range of a big solar system (versus just "barely adequate" I mainly see) has even more appeal. It is not either/or, generator or solar.



The generator is the weak link, not solar. I live and until recently mainly worked in South Texas. Running oilfield loads to drilling rigs. Where I sign in with your RV'ng kin at every gate (Gate Guards). They are supplied with (hold your hats) 25KW diesel generators. And even then can have a hard time with adequate electricity in harsh, hot & dusty conditions.



There are deliveries when I have time to visit with the GG. A year or so ago it was a couple from Minnesota in a new, 35ft+ Class A. With a big solar system. A retired banker and his wife. Not their first rodeo as is said down here. And no problems with the supplied generator as it does not have to carry the entire load if necessary. (I'd like to have the 7500W diesel ONAN he has aboard his coach in my diesel pickup -- and have examined a few oilfield service trucks so equipped; a good friend does service on these and I can find the fabricators to meet ONAN installation spec hereabouts).



Solar is the key. Generators are a weak sister crutch on anything but a light load, low time use schedule.



For most TT's it is the battery weight that is the limitation. Other than that, solar is now, IMO, the default position. The A/S optional system may not be the best choice, but solar itself is.



Anyone care to guess the output of my Silver Streak 1989 factory-installed two-panel solar system? Of what it would be today? The generator one may have bought at that same time is close enough to identical as to make a comparison to one today meaningless.



I believe I'll install the optional 220A alternator on the diesel engine and make the appropriate wiring to charge truck and house batteries separately or together.



Increasing the size of the propane tankage ranks more highly with me than does, at this point, any size of generator.



1] Water capacity is first.



2] Propane makes RV'ng itself possible.



3] Electricity is not an essential.



Heat water, cook food, keep perishables fresh. All else is a long ways down.



That said, it makes more and more sense to me to equip a TT for any set of conditions. Things may change. The more versatile the TT, the better off I am.





Good thread. Best to all



Ross



.

Slowmover,

You would benefit greatly from one of the new generation of hybrid inverters from companies like Magnum and Victron. These devices let you use smaller generators or 120VAC power sources and synchronize with the sources to supplement the power requirements (think starting a Roof A/C) by using your batteries and solar to make up the difference.

Smooth, automatic supplemental power. A win/win!


Lew Farber
RVIA/RVDA Nationally Certified Master Tech
Master Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
AM Solar Certified Installation Center
Lifeline Batteries**Magnum Inverters
541-490-6357
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Old 09-29-2014, 10:18 PM   #78
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SOLAR or GENERATOR? That is the question for Boondockers...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lewster View Post
Slowmover,

You would benefit greatly from one of the new generation of hybrid inverters from companies like Magnum and Victron. These devices let you use smaller generators or 120VAC power sources and synchronize with the sources to supplement the power requirements (think starting a Roof A/C) by using your batteries and solar to make up the difference.

Smooth, automatic supplemental power. A win/win!


Lew Farber
RVIA/RVDA Nationally Certified Master Tech
Master Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
AM Solar Certified Installation Center
Lifeline Batteries**Magnum Inverters
541-490-6357
Hello Lew,
We would greatly your recommendations for our new 2014 20' Flying Cloud. Took ownership 6/6/14 and thus far 21 nights camping with 13 nights "off the grid" but had 2000 watt generator for battery bacK up in mountains. Last recent trip, state park prohibited all generators but we did just fine for four days & very conservative energy use. Our TV is 2011 VW Touareg Sport with factory installed roof rack. Eventually, we would prefer having options with renewable energy with likely use of minimum 400 watts portable solar. Rationale here is for long weekend trips to CG with shore power, we would not require either generator or solar. Is this a logical pursuit?

Original installed ELECTRICAL:
Deep Cycle Coach Group 24 Batteries (2) • 7-Way Trailer Plug w/Junction Box • 110V AC/12V DC Power Center w/55 Amp Converter • 12 Volt ATC Fuses • Interior LED Lighting Overhead, Bath, Wardrobe & Ceiling • Directional LED Reading Lights • 120 Volt Exterior Outlet • Electronic Battery Disconnect • GFI Protection for Bath, Galley & Exterior Outlet • LED Step Light • Exterior Lighting Package Includes: Dump Valve, Compartment (LED) Light & Area Light • Water Pump Switch at Galley • Solar Prewire • Dimmer Switches (2)- Main Ceiling & Bedroom Lights • Remote Generator Ready (25'-30') • 30 Amp Service Detachable Power Cord. Dealer had the 1000W Inverter System installed.

We did just fine in the high peaks of Adirondacks where temps dipped down to 38-40° in the evenings. Only ran heat pump for about 1 hour on rainy chilly morning. We are very hesitate to permanently solar panels on the roof, although would have if the factory installed AC would have optional. Thanks for your help!
Sharon~FCloud9
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Old 09-29-2014, 10:37 PM   #79
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We have a a 2004 30' Classic, and most of our camping is in places without electricity. We installed a single 125w solar panel on the roof and have a second 125w panel that can be moved around (in case we are in the shade). Since one of the places we like to camp can be foggy for days at a time, we bought the Honda 2000. Even though we have two Samsung TV's....one is a 32" that only consumes 34 watts. Most of our lights have been converted to LEDs. We have 4 125Ah group 31 batteries to store the energy produced by the solar panel(s). At this point, I think the water pump consumes more power than any other device in the trailer! I can count on one hand the number of times we have used our Honda generator....and, that makes me happy! It's nice to have in a snowstorm, I guess....but we also carry an Olympian Wave 6 propane-powered catalytic heater (it's quiet and produces nice heat).
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Old 09-30-2014, 06:03 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by gmeikle View Post
I just completed my install of 3 100w flex panels on the cap of my truck with 6 1/2 ft box. Fit so well between the roof rack rails they can hardly be seen. Trial run worked greet. I had the Trimetric TM2030 and companion controller SC2030 already on board. Plug to the truck is a Pollak 2pin capable of up to 4awg cable and an Anderson weather proof connector on the other end of 21ft of #6 welding cable. I'm going to make up a shorter one for use while we are driving.
The only other thing left to do will be to replace the Interstates with 2 Crown 235's after I fix the battery box to fit them.


Geotrac88
Please keep us informed as to your progress; pics would be nice, too.
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Old 09-30-2014, 09:16 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by FCloud9 View Post
Hello Lew,
We would greatly your recommendations for our new 2014 20' Flying Cloud. Took ownership 6/6/14 and thus far 21 nights camping with 13 nights "off the grid" but had 2000 watt generator for battery bacK up in mountains. Last recent trip, state park prohibited all generators but we did just fine for four days & very conservative energy use. Our TV is 2011 VW Touareg Sport with factory installed roof rack. Eventually, we would prefer having options with renewable energy with likely use of minimum 400 watts portable solar. Rationale here is for long weekend trips to CG with shore power, we would not require either generator or solar. Is this a logical pursuit?

Original installed ELECTRICAL:
Deep Cycle Coach Group 24 Batteries (2) • 7-Way Trailer Plug w/Junction Box • 110V AC/12V DC Power Center w/55 Amp Converter • 12 Volt ATC Fuses • Interior LED Lighting Overhead, Bath, Wardrobe & Ceiling • Directional LED Reading Lights • 120 Volt Exterior Outlet • Electronic Battery Disconnect • GFI Protection for Bath, Galley & Exterior Outlet • LED Step Light • Exterior Lighting Package Includes: Dump Valve, Compartment (LED) Light & Area Light • Water Pump Switch at Galley • Solar Prewire • Dimmer Switches (2)- Main Ceiling & Bedroom Lights • Remote Generator Ready (25'-30') • 30 Amp Service Detachable Power Cord. Dealer had the 1000W Inverter System installed.

We did just fine in the high peaks of Adirondacks where temps dipped down to 38-40° in the evenings. Only ran heat pump for about 1 hour on rainy chilly morning. We are very hesitate to permanently solar panels on the roof, although would have if the factory installed AC would have optional. Thanks for your help!
Sharon~FCloud9

Please PM me for details.

Thanks!


Lew Farber
RVIA/RVDA Nationally Certified Master Tech
Master Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
AM Solar Certified Installation Center
Lifeline Batteries**Magnum Inverters
541-490-6357
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Old 09-30-2014, 09:21 AM   #82
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I just finished installing 5 of the new Grape Solar PhotoFlex 100 watt panels on me Sprinter roof. I'm on the road to Balloon Fiesta, where I will be completing the wiring to the Blue Sky controller and the Lithium-phosphate batteries.

I'll post some shots, but if any of you are at the Balloons, be sure to stop by and have a look.


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Master Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
AM Solar Certified Installation Center
Lifeline Batteries**Magnum Inverters
541-490-6357
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Old 09-30-2014, 04:23 PM   #83
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When you first start out, you can sometimes rationalize away certain equipment. That happened to me. Back in 2005 when I had acquired a LY diesel pusher that was "fully loaded", I laughed at the mere idea of solar panels - after all, I had a built-in 6.5Kw genset. Fast forward a few years and I found myself boondocking near Quartzsite. The genset was insufficient, as my needs had changed. First, the two 6-volt "house batteries" were barely sufficient as I needed to run a CPAP machine all night. The 6.5Kw propane-powered genset went through propane like sh-t through a goose, and I found that running the furnace (winters in the Sonora Desert do get cold, sometimes dropping to freezing) sometimes drew the batteries down to the point I had to use my towed car to jump start the motorhome. When I attended the International at Madison, I had initially wanted to rely on my genset to power the air conditioners (the temperatures then were running in the mid-90's), but found out that the organizers didn't plan for any propane deliveries (and I would have needed to refill once a day if I ran the air conditioners) - so I spent the extra $$$ to get a 30-amp hookup.

In 2011 I sold the moho and went with my current AS trailer. One of the selling points when I bought it was that the PO had installed 225-watts of solar.

Within the past 2 years I have upgraded my equipment to fit my needs. Some may consider it overkill, but experience has shown me what I really needed to have. Now I have 365-watts of solar, an MPPT controller, upgraded 6AWG wire, 4 AGM batteries and a 3KW Xantrex pure sine wave charger/inverter. This provides for my boondocking needs.

I do have a genset - 3KW cheapie purchased from Harbor Freight for $250 which I only use in "emergency" situations. Emergencies, you say - what emergencies? Well, I did have a catastrophic failure of the 4 AGM batteries last winter while camped in the Mojave Desert near Pahrump NV while taking a course at Front Sight. So for 4 nights I ran the genset so I could have power for my CPAP machine. I also used the genset a few months ago when I had a sudden deflation of a tire on the AS. I needed to bring the spare tire pressure up, so I fired up the genset from the back of the truck and plugged in my compressor.

It all boils down to what your style of camping and traveling is. My summers are spent in Ontario and my winters in AZ, CA, NM & NV, much of it boondocking. I chuckle to think of my early camping days in the 1980's in a small SOB when I would only stay at KOA campgrounds with full hookups and planned any trips between one KOA to another.
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Old 10-01-2014, 10:39 AM   #84
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Please keep us informed as to your progress; pics would be nice, too.
Hi mefly2,only one 4 day trip out so far,and 2 of the days were overcast,and of course up here at the 51st parallel the angle isn't the greatest at this time of year. Still managed to end up at 92% left and the last 2 were the cloudy ones.Fun to look at the TM2030 and see even in through the clouds that you are putting in more than you are using.It was nice to be able to leave the gen. and gas home so the dogs could ride in carpeted comfort in the back.Click image for larger version

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The roof,the 2 pin 4awg capable plug to truck and the waterproof Anderson plug at the trailer.
I will be making a shorter lead for traveling,but this one is 21ft of #6awg welding cable.
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