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Old 01-16-2017, 08:17 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by AIRHEDS View Post
dznf0g, not looking for an arguement ... the OP indicated interest in an "eco-conscious" approach, which is what I provided, though, I admittedly erred in stating that a septic system is "the only" long-term solution. The Forest Service pit toilets are catchment systems that are pumped empty when they are filled. The point is, solids will accumulate and they should be removed. The other point is that the USFS likely performed an impact assessment before locating the installation sites. I don't want to turn this into a "pissing contest" but given we're talking about black tank waste, I vehemently assert that the code is the code for a reason. We don't know anything about the water table, soil composition, drainage, slope topology, geography with respect to the stream or other water features in this area, etc., but we do know there's a stream on the property. If the OP intends to use this site for any period of time, I continue to assert that compliance with code is the only right thing to do. This is not meant to imply that if it's not used for a considerable period of time, that dumping black is okay. This is where the short-term solution is advisable: composting toilet. And if this isn't the OP's property, then I assert even more strongly that an "outhouse" hole to dump a black tank is unconscionable to do. My opinion. Have a nice holiday.
Rich, I'm not looking for an argument here either, just proper, all inclusive information about waste. Certainly, if OP's land is under code, one must follow the code, from a societal standpoint...not necessarily an eco standpoint.

The FS toilets I am talking about are in backwoods wilderness areas. They are NEVER pumped and can't be. They are simply relatively shallow holes dug by FS folks , with a fiberglass "stool" placed over the top. In the BWCA, the sites which are heavily used from May - Sept (frozen rest of the year with little decomposition) are relocated about every 5 years, per a discussion with a "pit digger" I met one year. Lesser used sites may be as long as 10 years. They are always a minimum of 150' from the water and campsites.

The issue here should be more about the amount of waste in a singular location and the runoff potential when selecting the location.

Based on my wilderness area experience, research and training, if I were in OP's situation (and it was legal) I would be inclined to have an outside "stool and enclosure over a pit for the solids, and use the tank for liquids only. The blue boy can be used to dispose of the liquids on top of the ground in a proper location relative to runoff and ground absorption. I would watch the quantity released in a single location.....spread it around. Urine decomposes very quickly and is quickly utilized by the flora. Here is a pic of an FS backwoods cathole, with "luxury" seating:

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Based upon the FS practices in the BWCA, the pit is relocated after several hundred uses....over 5 years.....so there is a decomposition rate involved. I'd probably relocate, in OP's situation at least monthly.

For the comments upstream about Cholera and dysentery, etc....that's all about location and load of disposal. Unless one is really careless and/or uneducated in proper methodology, that's not an issue.
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Old 01-16-2017, 09:09 AM   #44
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IMHO, I'm not sure it's reasonable to periodically cover an old, and dig a new "pit" that would accommodate a 39 gal black tank plus rinsing on a recurring basis...

I would definitely love to hear from the OP after he/she/they have made a decision on how they intend to proceed. Not that he/she/they owe any of us feedback. I'm just curious and such a response may be informative for others.

Best,
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Old 01-16-2017, 09:19 AM   #45
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IMHO, I'm not sure it's reasonable to periodically cover an old, and dig a new "pit" that would accommodate a 39 gal black tank plus rinsing on a recurring basis...

I would definitely love to hear from the OP after he/she/they have made a decision on how they intend to proceed. Not that he/she/they owe any of us feedback. I'm just curious and such a response may be informative for others.

Best,
Agreed, I described my thought on that issue in the last post. Also, in some environments the whole issue of digging (by visitors, not FS) has recently undergone a policy change. Up there, the topsoil layer is thin, because the glaciers moved it all to wisc/Illinois/iowa, during the ice age. When one needs to use a personal cathole, because of an "urgent calling", they used to recommend a trowelling a small hole and covering the waste and paper with soil when done. They now recommend just leaving it on top of the ground and covering with leaves only, (in a properly selected location). The fragile topsoil, short warm season, etc. dictates natural topsoil repair/healing is a worse environmental than waste on top. They have likewise changed their fish remains disposal policy (another discussion and methodology from human waste).
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Old 01-16-2017, 09:21 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by AIRHEDS View Post
IMHO, I'm not sure it's reasonable to periodically cover an old, and dig a new "pit" that would accommodate a 39 gal black tank plus rinsing on a recurring basis...

I would definitely love to hear from the OP after he/she/they have made a decision on how they intend to proceed. Not that he/she/they owe any of us feedback. I'm just curious and such a response may be informative for others.

Best,
Didn't read the whole thread, but I believe a neighbor offered their septic for his blue boy disposal of waste. When that's possible, that is of course environmentally best choice.
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Old 01-18-2017, 06:29 AM   #47
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I'm the OP and have enjoyed reading all this. The "pissing contest" was literally what I was hoping for, not figuratively. As with most things, the truth is somewhere in between.

My property is definitely governed by code. Having read that code, I don't want to break it. That's a moral stance less than an environmental. Although, everyone around there (including us) gets their fresh water off a well. I'm told they'll never mix because of the depth of the water table but again, it seems "wrong."

Usage is 60 straight days of use. We dump 39 gallons every 10 days on average and use only Happy Camper organic black water treatment. (That stuff is incredible and there is almost no smell. Unreal.) Gray water we just let go overboard once it fills up and the grass grows like mad there. Very hard ground and the water evaporates extremely quickly.

The best and in my view only option we have for the black water though is to dump into a portable tank then I tow the portable with a tractor and dump into an approved septic system. It gets a little messy from time to time but the Happy Camper makes it much less of an issue. It quite literally make us... Happy Campers.
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Old 04-20-2017, 11:23 PM   #48
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Composting toilet ?
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Old Yesterday, 08:02 PM   #49
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I am not sure that we ever heard where this land is...
but I am a member of an Astonomy club in New Mexico, and the club has an observatory away from a small town and away from people.

The only requirement we had was to provide notice that we were putting an outhouse on the property. It has been there for around 40 years and hasn't been a problem.

Recently the club has worked to try to improve the unit from the standpoint of smell, but we don't have a state full of code inspectors worrying about a waste disposal system that has been used for years.

Maybe in this case proximity to others is an issue?

I subscribe to the concept that the government is best that governs least.

Good luck in your effort to solve the problem.
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Old Yesterday, 08:27 PM   #50
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So I would just have a portajohn delivered. Let them service it. They will send a nicer one in your case, tell them you don't want your kids "reading" the John.

If you are going to build someday, consider building the septic and well that is what I am going to do. I can't permanent hook up to a septic with a camper in my place, but I can dump.
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