Southwest My Solar Boondocking Upgrade Journey - Part 1

[wulfraat]

Following ....

[Troutboy]

Batteries!

After many months of anticipation, my Victron Lithium batteries arrived yesterday! Here are some pictures of the shipping in case anyone was wondering how do you ship 134 pounds of batteries? Each are the 160 amp hour version.

The shipping box below was attached to a wood pallet. These things are big! They actually weighed in at 67 pounds each (5 pounds less than the Victron web site states)

It came off a huge truck, they set a delivery window, and had a special truck with a dolly and lift gate to unload.

Get this, the lift gate broke on the ground, and the truck was stuck for several hours in front of my house. I had to get to an appointment, so the driver was nice enough to help me hand carry the 170 pound box to the garage.

[Troutboy]

Solar Panel location and install.. Step 1, where does the combiner box go?

The 2017 23D Flying cloud does not have a refrigerator vent, and that is where many people run the main wire from the combiner box down through that vent. So my first task was to figure out how to get this wire which is two 4 AWG wires, from the combiner box on the roof and down close to where the batteries are being located. Unfortunately, the only real option was to drill a hole in the roof.

Since the batteries would be located on the street side, under the lounge, my preference was to look on that side, in the microwave space above the fridge. This is also where the power center was (under the fridge).

I ruled out under the main bed, because that would require a very long run and many wires to go under the floor in the conduit channels. So first step was to take out microwave and see if this could work. I was a little surprised that only 4 small screws hold the microwave in place. There are a few threads on the forums that talk about the microwave falling out, and now I see why.

After the microwave was removed, again I was shocked at the lack of attention and sloppiness of the wiring and the trash (see below)



I also read someone used a space below the Air conditioner to run wires etc, so I removed the two AC vents to inspect and see if this could work. Recall that this AS has the ducted AC, so these are the intake vents. This is what it looked like removed:



Looking in here to see if I could make this work, again I was disappointed with the wires and connectors just thrown up there. In fact, there was a metal wire connector box that was loose (not secured at all), and hitting the delicate air conditioner cooling fins. The fins were actually dented (see pics below:

The loose connector box:



Damaged fins:



I secured the loose connector box, organized wires, and put the vents back on, as I decided there was not a good place to run the solar wire and it didn't allow easy access for a combiner box on top. Plus I didn't want to cut into the AC unit for solar wire access.

So I went back to the space above the fridge where the microwave was removed. This is also where Switz had done his roof access. This would allow me to come in through the roof in this compartment, then drill down through the microwave compartment into the external fridge compartment, and then drill into the power center space (near the wheel wells). I will show more on the wire routing in the next post.

This looked like a good place to drill a hole up to the roof:



I was concerned though, as the air ducts run parallel to the length of the trailer, and it looked like if I drilled where Switz did, I would go through one of the AC ducts. I removed one of the round duct covers, and did verify that the duct ran back into the space behind the microwave.



If you look at the picture above, there is an aluminum panel seam about 2-3 inches beyond the duct. That seam also runs along the length and back through the microwave compartment (see picture above). So that provided a good reference point. I was also able to stick a ruler in the duct hole and measure how far back the duct wall went, and using basic math determine if I was 2-3 inches past the seam, I would not drill into the duct. I also confirmed that this hole would be up on the roof where I could mount the combiner box easily and safely.

So I drilled!!! This is what the hole drilled inside looked like:




Caution and luck. So when I looked inside after I carefully drilled this hole, I barely missed a wire loom, that could have been disastrous. so there are wires running up there and you need to be careful with these. From this hole, I used a drill bit and drilled into the upper roof skin (the hole shown above that I drilled was only drilled in the inside skin). This method then provided a pilot hole that I could use to drill the roof.

Here is what the hole in the roof looked like:



So now my holes were drilled, so I will describe the mounting of the combiner box and routing of the wire in my next post.

[sgschwend]

Did I see that you have a 200A BMS? Also a 3kW inverter?
Leads me to the question of derating your BMS and then the match for the inverter.

Was your plan to limit the inverter to 1500 watts? Could you share your thoughts on this?

[chadloose]

Great walk through, thank you!

Can you give a little more detail on the wire loom you almost hit? Was it on the street side of the hole you drilled, our towards the middle of the trailer? Given the variances of the trailers, that probably doesn't really help me, now that I think about it

Looking forward to seeing your panel install!

[Wayne&Sam]

Originally Posted by Troutboy

I had an idea of where everything needed to be located as Switz did a similar upgrade to his late model 23D. Solar on top,....

That was a really good decision. Solar panels on the belly pan haven't worked out so well.

[Troutboy]

Sgs, on the load side of the BMS it is a 200A fuse. I think most of the time the amp draw will be well below given the trailer system, it was set up on 30A service. The inverter is 3000VA, which is around 2400 Watts. I wanted at least 2000W to be able to run microwave, hairdryer, etc.....

It's a standard system sold by amsolar. I am not an expert was told by several experts that this setup would run the devices I wanted and then some, with no issues, and not blow the BMS fuse... Even the AC, although I don't have a large enough battery bank to really do that.

[Troutboy]

Chad, the loom was running in the street side, or below the hole from the picture angle. It was running the length of the trailer. It was less than 1 inch away from the hole and being drilled into with the hole saw. I took pictures, but they didn't come out well as it was dark in the hole.

Wayne, yes, belly pan would nit have resulted in much power from the panels, lol

[Troutboy]

What to do wth this roof hole?

The next step was to secure the combiner box over the hole, caulk it all up, and run the main wire from the box, down to where the batteries would be located.

I used the amsolar combiner box, as it would provide plenty of room for my mere 5 solar panels. This is the link to this combiner box: http://amsolar.com/rv-combiner-box/20-roof.

I didn't want to drill any holes In the roof, and I figured if 3M VHB tape and SikaFlex was was good enough for the solar panel feet mount, they should hold the combiner box as well. So I placed 3M VHB tape on the bottom as shown below:



I had also added the 5 water tight connectors that would accept the solar panel wiring. This was easy to do, remove the knockout covers with a screw driver, and put the water tight connection in. Also, note to the left of the box in the picture above, there is a long rectangular hole, this is where the wire comes up through the roof and into the box.

I was concerned about the sharp aluminum edge left by the hole saw. So I figured I could use a plastic bushing to make sure the wire wouldn't rub against the metal. Only thing was that it wasn't a simple fit because of that rectangular hole in the box. So I had to trim a bushing. The picture below shows the normal bushing on the left, and the modified one on the right. I used a sharp knife and tin snips to trim it.



This is a dry test fit of the bushing:



This is what the box looked like after I taped it down and ran a bead of SikaFlex around the outside, with the cover placed on it:



Next, I fished the wire up from inside the trailer, into the hole and up through the box. This took some patience and I actually had to use a wire puller, as the holes were not perfectly aligned, and that 4 awg wire does not give much.

Here's what it looked like when I got the wire up:



Here is a close up showing the plastic bushing. note that I later filled in the remainder of the rectangular hole with sikaflex, covering the bushing and closing the hole completely.



This is what it looked like after I installed the wires to the positive and negative terminals.



So the top was complete, I filled in more sikaflex where it made sense, and did the same on the lower penetrations, see pictures below of the wire runs:

Into the trailer microwave compartment



Into the exterior fridge compartment (coming from the microwave compartment).



Bottom of fridge compartment, into the power center area. Note the yellow wire, that was a new line for a separate AAC circuit for the fridge as explained in a post above.



A final look at how the wire enters the space where the batteries will be, which is to the right of the wheel well.



So now that the hole through the roof was done, the combiner box installed, and the main solar wire installed, it's time to get on to the solar panel install! Next post starts there.

[lewster]

Looking' good Rich! Keep up to good work!!

[dmbecke]

Great thread guys- I'm learning a lot and have yet to find the used trailer I'm looking for
My solar question: when selecting a camp sight do you find it hard to locate in the sun?
Or will partial shade still give a charge to batteries?
Do you rely then on the roll out shades ?
Thanks

[wmcneil]

Rich, glad to see your batteries arrived. The install is looking good!....I am currently rennovating in my house, turning a master bedroom into a bathroom and closet. Figuring out where to drill holes and not destroy existing wiring/plumbing/hvac has been part of the fun. Good practice when I start doing the same to my AS.

[Troutboy]

DMBECKE
Good question. Here in Colorado many sites have direct sky to sun. Many do not. That is why I wanted to have the ability for 200W portable, that I could put in the sun if I am parked under trees.

Not enough experience yet to know how much panels will put out in shaded situations....

[Dexterpix]

9k $$$$$ ....... What would it have been if someone else installed it? WOW

Hope it does everything you want.

Joe D

[Troutboy]

I'm not sure but I would imagine another $5k minimum in labor. Just my guess, maybe more. It's a bunch of hard work that's for sure. So I can tell you This, They earn every penny they charge.

[Troutboy]

Solar Panels!!!!

Okay, let's look at the solar panels. The panel packages I went with were the amsolar SP-100. Link here: http://amsolar.com/rv-panel-klts/11s-tlt-sp100

These have a smaller footprint than other panels at 100W. I went with the package that had the mounts and accessories. I think you can find parts, panels, and pieces cheaper if you search and source yourself (ask Frank, he's doing an upgrade as well and is sourcing on his own from places he finds the best value).

I did the math, and it wasn't enough to make me do it all on my own (YMMV). Plus, I liked getting as much as I could from amsolar, and their prices were competitive, especially with a sale they had at the end of last year. Without that sale, I may have went a different direction.

It was nice to know that everything I needed would be sent in a complete package. Also, when you buy from them, they help you anyway they can. Their service and response has been outstanding.

Here is what the box looks like when shipped:



They come well packed, in the box, they have strong corner support, and a complete cover on each panel. The cardboard covers made excellent templates that were used to determine the layout of the panels on the roof. When pulled out of box they looked like this:



Here is the front view of a panel:



Here is the rear view, that shows the wires etc;



The next task, determine the layout of the panels,the wire lengths for each panel, and get to work. I went up on the roof with the five cardboard covers for templates and started to lay it out. With the small roof of the 23D, options were limited. Again, I had some great photos from Switz that showed his layout, and I was planning on duplicating that effort. Unfortunately, some of the vents and boxes on my trailer were different than his, so I had to improvise and come up with my own layouts.

Here is a picture of placing the cover templates.



I used that layout for four panels (picture above) and placed the last one on the curb side rear (will show layout later of installed panels). Once I had the layout confirmed, and I had the combiner box already in place, I measured wire run length for each panel. I numbered the panels, and had measurements for wire run for each panel. I added one foot to each measurement to make sure I had enough. They gave me plenty of extra wire.

I went back in the basement to prep each panel. The first prep consisted of attaching the feet to each panel. For the feet, I followed the instructions. For my install, I did not plan to drill any holes on the roof, so I planned to use the VHB tape, then a heavy coat of SikaFlex as recommended by Lewster.

To pre-install the feet, first bolt on the mounting brackets, then bolt on the feet to the mounting bracket. I used the large black wing bolts that came with the amsolar package. I chose to use two double back to back for each front facing foot (the side of panel facing front of the trailer). This was recommended by Lewster, as it provides more binding surface area. The pictures below show what I mean by back to back feet.




Make sure that you loosely tighten the feet, snug enough so they don't move freely, but loose enough so you can move them by hand. Also note, install them in the hole that you want the final install to be. You will not be able to install them in the first hole, and later after permanently installed, move them to the third hole, without stressing the hold or panel (I learned the hard way, I installed them on the highest hole, but wanted them on the lower one, I could only move it down one hole).

So once, the feet are in place (with tape still on), you can take the panel to the roof, line it up, and one by one peel the tape off the foot, and stick them down. Make sure to dry position the panel first, then I found by starting at the top right first, then top left, then move down to the lower feet. This worked well and I did not have to unstick or redo any of the panels. I went slow and cautiously. Once you stick it down, it will be a lot of work to get it up. So be careful.

I did run into one issue with the two panels that butted up agains the AC Unit. I wanted to leave enough space between the panel frame and the AC Unit to allow easy on/off access of the AC Unit cover. This was a tight fit and when I did this, the two lower feet would hang off the roof (the white aluminum roof).

I decided to modify the lower feet, by moving the mounting bracket up a few inches, to allow the feet to sit on the roof. I am not sure how this impacts the warranty, but it's the only way to get the panels on in that position.

The pictures below show the modification. You can see how the feet were pre-installed before going on the roof.





After the panels where taped down, I let them sit for an hour. Then I removed each panel and attached the solar wire following the great instructions provided by amsolar. Two crimp connections and heat shrink.

I then went up on the roof with a few tubes of SikaFlex and sealed the feet. I let the feet and SikaFlex sit overnight, and the next day I installed the panels, and completed the wiring.

I have run out of picture posting for this post, so my next post will show the panels and feet installed etc.

[Bigcgar]

Rich - Really nice job so far on your solar project and the estimate for your overall install by a professional is pretty close to what I invested in with my 600W x 400ah lithium install last year. Don't forget the 30% solar tax credit you should still get this year. You might want to create an LLC for your labor costs. Wait I can't offer any tax advise on this forum....[emoji6]

One thing you may want to consider, if you store your trailer off site, is hooking up a wifi camera to monitor the solar remotes when not in use. I put in a wireless Canary security camera and have it pointed at my remote screens, plugged into a 12v inverter along with my Verizon mifi unit and I can log into the Canary via phone or tablet. Photo below. It allows me to track battery charge and voltage during the winter months when stowed away.


All the best on the project. See you on the river!

Be well, Fish on.
Allan

[NoResults]

Did you have to buy extra brackets for the mounting. You said you used two back to back for each front facing foot?

Dave

[Troutboy]

Allan, I'll have to ping you on that tax break! Also, really cool way to monitor and watch from afar. Do you connect to your storage places wifi, or via cellular network?

Dave, yes, I did have to buy some extra feet. AMSolar was good to work with. They will modify their install packages to meet your needs. I can look on my invoice to give you the escat numbers of each that I installed. At the top (closest to roof centerline) I used the normal feet. Then at the bottom, I used the tall feet (shown above). Let me know if you want that info.

[Bigcgar]

Rich I use a jetpack from Verizon which connects via cellular 4GLTE network

Happy to connect with you anytime.