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Old 12-18-2016, 08:34 AM   #21
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I think that you will find that using a non-vented propane heater your humidity problem will be even worse. When you burn a hydrocarbon fuel, such as natural gas or propane in a catalytic heater, the fuel reacts with oxygen producing heat and two primary combustion products: water vapor and carbon dioxide. A 10,000 Btu/hour unvented gas heater will produce about 14 ounces of water per hour about 2.5 US gallons per day if operated around the clock.
*******

Your post is well taken. I will look into that.

Maybe the owner of the unit in the 2016 Wyoming Adventure will chime in and make some comments.
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Old 12-18-2016, 08:53 AM   #22
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My advice still stands.

Airstreams are not an 'all season living residence' for sub freezing climates. Be very careful and prepared if you insist on doing a cold weather experience. This is not from someone who takes risks lightly.

Ask any oil field geologist doing some well sitting for a well completion in Wyoming, North Dakota or even Oklahoma in the Winter. It is a lousy experience. Anyone who believes it is something to... do, that is fine. The majority following this thread, I hope, will reconsider any camping in your Airstream during these extremes.

I appreciate the stories of those who have experienced Airstream or SOB camping falling outside the 40F to 80F 'Airstream Comfort Zone'. This is an arbitrary range I have set for myself.

Those who have expressed an interest of Winter Camping, please expand upon your short posts and tell us how you... do it. Then those following this thread can make their own decisions to attempt such an undertaking.
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Old 12-18-2016, 09:13 AM   #23
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On Jan 6, 2016 I made the return trip from Syracuse NY to Tennessee. Trailer was winterized with empty tanks. Used bottled water and rest stop and other public restroom facilities. It didn't get as cold as expected, but we were prepared for it with sleeping bags.

On getting back to Tennessee I parked the trailer without hookups on one of our construction sites. There I did projects on the trailer for Jan & Feb. I have a Big Buddy propane heater, It has two burners when operated on the high setting. I only used that setting on first entering the trailer to get the warming started. I opened a window just over the heater, and an overhead vent in the rear bedroom. That quite handily took care of the moisture and oxygen problem ..I love my Big Buddy. Quiet, efficient and uses no electricity. In cool weather I won't leave without it.
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Old 12-18-2016, 10:54 AM   #24
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You are probably right when it comes to having no electricity but with it you can do well. Last night it got down to -1 degrees. I have full hookups and an 300 lb propane tank on an extender hose for the convenience of not having to change bottles. Water line is heat taped and wrapped. I also have a solid sewer pipe. Last night was the first that I dripped the water. I can go into the teens without having to do so. No skirting. No appreciable condensation. BTW I am in an Avion, so maybe a better trailer. Hehe! But you do make some valid points.
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Old 12-18-2016, 11:31 AM   #25
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I won't call myself an expert since my experience is limited, but I do have experience.

Visiting the PNW in October, it was chilly and wet. Our owner's manual says to set the thermostat the same way we do at home. So we set it where it was comfortable, and left it. We learned early on to crack the kitchen window just a hair to keep from getting steamy.

Then as we were coming back through Montana, one night we pulled into a local municipal campground. No hookups and no lights. We pulled into the first widest space we could fit into according to what we could see from our headlights. The brush was tall and close on all sides, and we felt like we were camping in a corn maze. It was late, so we just made a pot of tea and had some snacks before bedtime. The wind was howling, so our furnace ran for a fair amount of the night. In the morning we found we were on the banks of a shallow fast moving stream. There were patches of snow all around us. As we ate our breakfast, the sun lit up the nearby snow capped mountains in a brilliant pink glow. THIS is boondocking at it's finest!

The worst part of the morning was getting out of our warm snug trailer, and back into the cold truck to head down the road. It only got down to about 28 that night, but as comfortable as we were, I'm sure we could take a lot colder weather without any discomfort at all.
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Old 12-18-2016, 12:46 PM   #26
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The insulation on an Avion is better, including threelayers of flooring.
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Old 12-18-2016, 01:23 PM   #27
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If I thought I was going to have the opportunity to do some cold-weather camping on a regular basis, and due to my affinity of wood heat, I would put one of these in our Avion: http://www.unforgettablefirellc.com/...ly-wood-stove/
Then, no need to worry about "how are we going to stay warm?". Would take care of the condensation, too, as a wood stove really dries out the air.

Hmmmm........ maybe I ought to put one in so we CAN do some cold-weather camping!! Yah, THAT'S the ticket!!!
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Old 12-18-2016, 03:02 PM   #28
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Day three of AS ownership in Parker CO. Wife thinks I am nuts, as I have been "camping" in the driveway as temps drop below zero here in Parker for past two nights.

I have the furnace set to 55, the television works, and I am venting for moisture. I am plugged in to house power. Still running on the first tank of LP, this has impressed me as I thought it would chew through LP at this cold temp.

My take is, if needed I could survive. I think I would be bored to death in winter, as I like to hike, run, fly fish and such. We like to Enjoy the outdoors when we can be out and the temps are above 50. I grew up in Buffalo, NY, been there, done that cold thing. To each his own. I am convinced though, if you love the winter outdoors, you could survive in an AS just fine......

Me, Ill keep playing with the new rig and keep waiting until the weather turns and I can head out to enjoy what me and the family like to do......
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Old 12-18-2016, 03:14 PM   #29
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Troutboy you have winterized your plumbing, correct?

What is your expected overnight low temp?

Thanks,

Peter
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Old 12-18-2016, 04:40 PM   #30
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Peter,

Yes.... it was winterized at the dealer. They showed me how to do it. Cold temp at night is -6 F. Really cold outside, but warm in the trailer. I am not cooking or anything like that, I am cheating by eating in the house. Just really seeing what is going on and how the heat, fridge, lights etc work. Also looking around for any flaws or broken equipment, and planning my solar upgrade.

I've taken this thing apart in many ways already, haha.

But as I said before, I feel I could go winter camping and make it (I have a lot of backcountry winter experience), but it just doesn't get me excited ad I can wait until it gets warmer.

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Old 12-18-2016, 05:28 PM   #31
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You saw the other winter camping thread with the video?

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f42/...ng-160582.html

I have camped like this in cold weather behind the shop where we parked the old 25' years ago. Good stuff.
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Old 12-19-2016, 12:38 AM   #32
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Haha, good video, but no thanks!


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Old 12-19-2016, 01:49 AM   #33
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I appreciate the stories of those who have experienced Airstream or SOB camping falling outside the 40F to 80F 'Airstream Comfort Zone'. This is an arbitrary range I have set for myself..
You really need to get out more.
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Old 12-19-2016, 02:01 AM   #34
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Ray, I'm sorry, that sounded sarcastic. Open your windows, reduce the humidity, you'll be okay.
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Old 12-19-2016, 09:26 AM   #35
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Ray, I'm sorry, that sounded sarcastic. Open your windows, reduce the humidity, you'll be okay.
*******
No offense taken. I have been on the Forum long enough to understand that one can read into what the meaning was intended.

I think people believe that everyone has led a sheltered life, but themselves. I have lived Off the Grid in Montana when several years old living among Forest Service cabins and then in Lakeside, Montana, within something similar to a shack, but longer. Homes where the iron wood burning stove in the kitchen was the primary heat source in Somers, Montana.

I am probably more aware of what is going on than many... critical of my opinions that are intended to be entertaining, but offering valid experiences as advice.

Someone who has camped in a 1956 VW and pup tent beginning in 1965... to an Airstream in 2006. The 1956 VW holds my best memories of camping, traveling out west on a Learner' Permit and a passenger with a license.

My wife and I can handle ourselves in any situation. My intent is to help others. I find some of my efforts in promoting 'real' Boondocking are taken as being arrogant and giving misinformation. It is discouraging. Emails and posts appreciating my efforts keep me involved.

I have found many owners of Airstreams representing some of the most status orientated trailers owners I have been associated. When I am questioned by other Airstream owners why would I take the trailer off onto a gravel road... is difficult to resist the ignorance.

This and other Threads I have participated are to add unbiased experience. It can be taken or ignored. It works for us. I am selling nothing. I charge nothing to take people out of their comfort zone with their trailer. Those that cannot handle it... do not blame the teacher.

Those who are pushing the limits of their trailer. Please, inform us how your experience is working. I want to know. We all are curious. Cold weather camping does not complement our outdoor activities over 5,000 feet elevation. Some will not understand those who want to push the envelope. I do. Ignore the negativity towards your testing your limitations. You at least attempted something, rather than did nothing and succeeded.
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Old 12-19-2016, 11:31 AM   #36
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So now for our experience. Each year, we spend September into early October in our 19' Bambi in (mostly) West Yellowstone, Montana. The nighttime temperatures are often below freezing, with 9 F being the lowest we have experienced. We have full hookups and heat primarily with our propane furnace and keep the trailer warm. No matter what, we have continuing ventilation with at least one window and one skylight cracked. We shower in the trailer, keeping the bath door closed and use the exhaust fan to extract steam.

As long as the furnace doesn't conk out or we run out of propane, we remain comfortable and without rain storms in the trailer.

When are freezing temperatures a nuisance? When they continue during the day for more than a couple of days.

What have we done to help with the cold? We have made the windows double-paned and installed water-inlet and drain heaters. What also helps? Having "mouse fur" wall covering, which provides additional insulation. What, for us, is essential for the cold? Hookups! Yes, we're sissies.

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Old 12-19-2016, 12:35 PM   #37
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Simple solution

Go to Arizona
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Old 12-19-2016, 12:51 PM   #38
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Another subzero night here. Trailer is warm and water is flowing. But the the other four RVs here are frozen up. One guy actually moved into the motel up front. The motel office had its water freeze plus six of their units have frozen water. Thanks my beautiful Avion.
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Old 12-19-2016, 05:20 PM   #39
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Experiment complete. Three nights and most days in the new airstream during -3 or so nights and high teen days. This was done in my driveway and I did go into the house to eat a few meals out of boredom.

Heat set to 55. Plugged in to shore power. Watched TV, read. Vented fans and one window.

One 30 pound LPG cylinder lasted from 6pm Friday till 8 am Monday.

Used bottled water, unit was winterized. Did not use toilet or shower.

Being that I literally brought the AS home Friday, is say this was a great fort test. I feel good that I could boondock in the winter, with shore power as my stock battery system would not allow furnace to run full time.

Would need to test Water and freeze, but tank Balinese in this 23d would have lasted.

I did find closing blinds and piling pillows on some windows helped keep warmth in the unit. Sleeping bag a must.

Took unit to storage, made two noob mistakes:

1: took out batteries then spent 15 minutes trying to fix tongue jack, duh!

2. After hitching up, proceeded to drive 1 foot with tongue jack down.

Where's that check list???? Guess I do need one.

I have great respect for those that boindock in these conditions. It's not really for me, but you never know.
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Old 12-19-2016, 06:30 PM   #40
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Troutboy... congratulations!

We stored our 2006 along Sante Fe Road & Titan Road in Littleton the first two years. Never removed the batteries and they were doing fine in 2014 when I sold the trailer. They were the AGMs that came with the factory Solar Package.

Yes... I know many say remove the batteries in the Winter. If you have solar and they are being charged, that may keep them working and working. Probably too late to take a photograph of the battery wiring... but it would be handy in the future to attach them properly.

Keep in touch when we return to Castle Rock. You have what it takes to do some Summer Boondocking if you want company for a few days or longer.
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