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05-02-2010, 07:32 PM
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#1
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2 Rivet Member
2010 16' Sport
Madison
, Wisconsin
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 91
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Charging Battery From Tow Vehicle
We have a single deep cycle battery and plan on boondocking quite a bit this summer.
We plan on running only the frig., lights and occasionally the fantastic fan on the trips.
Question 1, how long should my battery last?
Question 2, how long would it take to charge the battery from just hooking it up to the tow vehicle?
We do not have a generator and do not plan to get one.
Thanks,
boutdoors
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05-02-2010, 08:04 PM
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#2
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boutdoors
We have a single deep cycle battery and plan on boondocking quite a bit this summer.
We plan on running only the frig., lights and occasionally the fantastic fan on the trips.
Question 1, how long should my battery last?
Question 2, how long would it take to charge the battery from just hooking it up to the tow vehicle?
We do not have a generator and do not plan to get one.
Thanks,
boutdoors
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Run the frig on LPG, creating no battery drain.
How many lights etc. you have on, and for how long, determines how long the battery will last.
The charging rate of the trailer battery depends on the tow vehicles charging system, and the wiring back to the trailer. The heavier the wire, the faster the recharge.
Also, how long you will be towing, determines the total recharge.
If your only going to tow and hour or two, that will not be enough. Probably, about 4 hours of towing will do it, again depending on the speed and the type of tow vehicle you will be using.
Andy
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05-02-2010, 08:06 PM
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#3
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_
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, .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
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Q/A 1. 2-4 days of use easily, unless the ff is on much, or it's cold. the water pump is also 12v.
Q/A 2. 2-4 days of driving to recharge, yes it's true, especially 2get close to 100% charge.
the least expensive approach for adding daze of juice is a 2nd battery.
either installed or charged and ready to swap out.
cheers
2air'
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.
we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
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05-02-2010, 08:11 PM
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#4
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Rivet Master
2006 25' Safari FB SE
St. Cloud
, Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,280
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Avoid the lights altogether. Get a couple inexpensive LED lanterns for after dark. Motors chew up the amp-hours -- and nothing worse than the furnace. I find that northern shaded sites need little cooling effort. Love the full-opening International windows. All depends on whether an oppressively hot period coincides with your camping. Fantastic fan makes a more focused 12v fan, the Endless Breeze -- unfortunately not cheap.
Boondocking is made for summer. Have fun!
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05-03-2010, 08:17 AM
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#5
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Rivet Master
2008 22' Safari
Oracle
, Arizona
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,174
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We use one group 27 deep cycle. LED's are a must. According to your stated use you should get 5 or more days out of a fully charged new battery.The older they get the less they hold a charge. If you have a long drive, 4+ hours, you might be able to re-charge but don't count on it. A generator or solar would give you piece of mind. We made due with a group 24 for several years but it was dicey. I've seen 40 watt solar chargers for under $300 and Honda genny's around $800.
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05-03-2010, 08:17 AM
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#6
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2 Rivet Member
2010 16' Sport
Madison
, Wisconsin
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 91
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O.K. So I get that the TV will not adequately re-charge the battery. I like the idea of having an extra battery on hand as a lower cost alternative to getting a generator. But it seems like a hassle to have to swap out batteries mid trip.
What are my other options? I have a new model that is solar pre-wired. Does this mean it is a plug and play system or would I have to take it in and have a major install performed? How much does the solar panel cost, I cant find that info anywhere? Would it just be cheaper to get a generator?
Thanks again for all the helpful info.
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05-03-2010, 08:26 AM
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#7
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Rivet Master
2008 22' Safari
Oracle
, Arizona
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,174
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Being in the southwest, I like the generator because we can use the convection/microwave oven or AC when necessry. Solar chargers can be had at Harbor Freight or Costco and should be a simple hook up since you have it wired.
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05-03-2010, 08:31 AM
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#8
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1 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Waynesville
, North Carolina
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 16
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I have two Trojan 105 deep cycle 6 volt batteries. This gives me at least 7 days of moderate use with the fridge on propane and moderate light use. Two 6 volts are much better than the 12 volt batteries for boondocking. You will not be able to run the microwave or AC however.
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05-03-2010, 09:13 AM
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#9
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Rivet Master
1961 24' Tradewind
1969 29' Ambassador
1970 21' Globetrotter
Jamestown
, Tennessee
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,783
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The charge rate from the TV tends to be low, usually less than 5 amps. Unless you are driving at the time it doesn't make much sense to run a a couple hundred horse engine trying to recharge. If you do much boondocking a generator and/or solar is a good investment.
__________________
Rick Davis 1602 K8DOC
61 tradewind, plus a few others
13 Ram 2500 TD
99 Dodge TD 577K miles
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05-03-2010, 10:13 AM
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#10
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_
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
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yes swapping batteries is a bit of a hassle.
one could simply POSITION the 2nd battery near the first at the campsite.
and parallel connect or use quick releases on the posts.
but for 100$ or so that will double the reserve.
it's a bit like hauling fresh OR waste water.
a better approach is to MOUNT the 2nd battery,
but the cost goes up some.
lots of threads on adding a 2nd deep cycle to first.
____________
solar 'pre wire' only means a/s ran a section of appropriate wire in the wall...
with one end IN the roof (gotta cut a hole to fish it out) and 1 end near the fridge (in that compartment)
there are 100s of threads here on the solar prewire, finding, using it, bypassing it, and so on.
any solar website will provide panel prices OR package prices.
it's very hard to spend LESS than 1000$ for the essential/basics for a USEFUL solar kit.
____________
honda 1000 or 2000s are readily available in the 2ndary markets (bay, craig)
not as many used yams available but both red and blue can be found.
a used eu1000i is a great starting point, reliable AC power and DC battery charging...
small, light, easy to service and multipurpose.
300-500$ perhaps and again VERY easy to resell if you want a bigger genset or opt out of gensets.
it's also portable to the NEXT rv whereas INSTALLED solar bits are hard to move to the next stream...
many folks here have started with a used honda while sorting out there long term camping/power needs.
cheers
2air'
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.
we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
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05-03-2010, 11:37 AM
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#11
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I approve of this message
2006 28' International CCD
Redmond
, Washington
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 94
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I suggest doing a little research on the battery installed by Airstream. Specifically, the group (size) and rated amp hour (capacity) of the battery. You might find that simply upgrading your battery either to a larger size and/or higher capacity battery may significantly extend your available energy. Of course, reducing your consumption, i.e. LED lights, avoid using the furnace, etc. goes a long way in successful dry camping.
Another thing to consider is a high quality 3-stage, portable battery charger. This can be used at home to fully charge your battery ( more effective than the integrated charge-converter in your Airstream) and is great to maintain your batteries during the winter months. It can be also used with a generator if you go that route. BatteryMINDer® 12-Volt 2, 4, or 8 Amp Charger-Maintainer-Desulfator-Conditioner w/ABS-248 | All | Battery Chargers by BatteryMINDers.com
If you are considering solar, here is highly regarded option - AM Solar's SunRunner RV100-22B Solar Electric Battery Charging System for RVs
Cheers
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05-04-2010, 05:21 PM
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#12
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Rivet Master
1979 31' Sovereign
Milford
, Ohio
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 565
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Since it sounds like you will be taking several boondocking trips this summer, as opposed to one long one, you will have the advantage of experimenting on the first few trips to see what works best, and how much power you use. You can then decide if you want a generator or maybe some solar panels.
A few years ago there was a power failure in my area for three days and my house is all electric. Fortunately my Airstream is stored at home and the factory twin battery setup enabled us to cook and take hot showers until power was restored. I will say though that the batteries were down below 50% when the power came back on. I might add that the weather was mild so no need to run the furnace.
Since that experience I have upgraded my trailer to four group 27 batteries. We have two boondocking weekends coming up soon, just two nights each, but based on that power outage at home I am sure we'll have enough power.
If we really fall in love with boondocking, I'll probably purchase a small quiet Honda generator to power the onboard converter/charger for an hour or so per day to top off the amps.
I like the idea of installing solar panels but that would require picking a site in full sun, which is not always possible as we stay in a lot of wooded areas, and in warm weather the trailer would get too hot inside. I also see the generator coming in handy for other uses so no panels for me any time soon.
Christopher
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05-04-2010, 06:02 PM
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#13
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2 Rivet Member
2010 16' Sport
Madison
, Wisconsin
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 91
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Chris,
Sounds like we are in the same situation. Although all we have is 16 bambi. We currently have a single group 24 battery (call me stupid, but can someone let me know what this means?)
I am assuming that we could last about 24-36 hours with the amount of power we will use. I too plan on getting a small generator in the future.
We are long time tent campers and I don't see us using much power at all and even have LED lanterns and cooking only with LP.
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05-04-2010, 06:51 PM
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#14
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2 Rivet Member
2010 16' Sport
Madison
, Wisconsin
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 91
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One more question for all you experts out there.
I checked my TV owners manual (Toyota Tacoma) and I have a two fuses I would like to identify to see if I am getting power to my trailer while hooked up to the Tow Vehicle.
1. 30 amp BATT CHG (Trailer sub battery)
2. 30 amp TOWING (Towing Converter)
Does this mean I am getting 30 amps to my battery at all times when hooked up to the running TV?
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05-04-2010, 07:20 PM
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#15
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
1989 34.5' Airstream 345
Cleveland
, Tennessee
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 787
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What I've seen
I've been to one rally where elec. was not available. The AS'ers were using generators to charge thebattery. But not through the converter. They brought a small automotive type battery charger. They said it charges the battery faster this way than going through the converter. It also saves amount of gas used during boondocking.
Ricky
__________________
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." Mark Twain
AIR 22749 WBCCI 2349 NOVA TAC TN-6
1989 345 LE Classic Motorhome
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05-04-2010, 07:22 PM
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#16
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Rivet Master
1965 17' Caravel
1983 27' Excella
Walnut Grove/Laguna Woods
, California
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,635
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The way I see it, the voltage regulator on the TV, which regulates the output of the alternator, reads the state of the TV battery, and adjusts alternator output accordingly.
When you connect your trailer, putting the trailer battery on the circuit, the trailer battery will try to equalize with the TV battery. Over time, it will do just that, drawing down the TV battery, thus causing slightly higher output from the TV alternator.
If the voltage regulator was "seeing" the low trailer battery, it would overcharge the TV battery in short order.
If there was a switch to disconnect the TV battery and connect the trailer battery after the TV is running, the voltage regulator would then "see" and charge only the trailer battery. However, this would have to be a "make before break" switch or you would blow the diodes in the alternator, as disconnecting a running alternator from a load is a no no. Also, with today's auto electronics I think you might be playing a dangerous game.
Just a thought.
Perhaps someone with more expertise?
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05-04-2010, 07:30 PM
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#17
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Rivet Master
1991 34' Excella
1963 26' Overlander
1961 26' Overlander
Central
, Mississippi
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,919
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3 Dog Nite
..They brought a small automotive type battery charger. They said it charges the battery faster this way than going through the converter. ...Ricky
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A SMALL 3 stage on-board charger is good for 20 amps, a BIG (small) automotive charger is good for 8 amps...
Fire up the genny, plug to the trailer and let the onboard charger do it's job is my $.02
2Air hits the point on a second battery...add one.
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05-04-2010, 09:56 PM
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#18
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I approve of this message
2006 28' International CCD
Redmond
, Washington
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiHoAgRV
A SMALL 3 stage on-board charger is good for 20 amps, a BIG (small) automotive charger is good for 8 amps...
Fire up the genny, plug to the trailer and let the onboard charger do it's job is my $.02
2Air hits the point on a second battery...add one.
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The cost (parts+labor) to upgrade to an onboard 3-stage converter-charger is much higher than a BatteryMinder. The OEM converter-charger in new Airstreams is adequate at best.
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05-05-2010, 10:02 AM
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#19
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Rivet Master
1979 31' Sovereign
Milford
, Ohio
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 565
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The battery "group number" refers to the physical size of the battery. This sometimes, though not always will affect the amp hour output. I'm pretty sure the way that works is if two batteries are of different dimensions yet have the same volume will probably have the same output.
My on board charger/converter is a Progressive Dynamics Intellicharger which has 3 levels of charging. Using the Charge Wizard, when plugged into a generator I can manually set onto the highest (fastest) charge level.
Christopher
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05-05-2010, 12:08 PM
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#20
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3 Rivet Member
1959 24' Tradewind
The Grass Capital of the World
, Oregon
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 174
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boutdoors- here is a fantastic reference for a straight-forward explanation of your deep-cycle battery, what the sizes mean, and how you can prolong the life of your battery indefinitely by your usage.
Essentially, the best way for you to accomplish what you want is to fully understand how your deep-cycle battery works, and therefore understand how your power usage affects your battery. Depending on your current understanding, you could probably skim a lot of the material on this website...
Deep Cycle Battery FAQ
I slightly disagree with the person who said a workable solar unit will cost you $1000. For work, I use solar panels to charge deep-cycle batteries that I abandon in remote places, and they are amazing, but our power budget is very, very low compared to the draw of a fridge or TV. I also do not know what type of roof-mounting system is necessary for the Airstreams yet, so there may be some additional cash spent there, but these are the panels I use for work, and they are rockstars....
55 Watt GridMaxx Solar Panel
They are listed in the $350 range, but I have purchased them for as low as $180 (small quantity too) within the last year. You can find deals if you have the time and inclination.
Bottom line: your power budget can be thought of as your checking account. Just find the power usage of all the appliances you have, figure out how much power you use per unit of time, and then subtract that from your battery supply.
Another easier solution might be to hook two deep-cycle batteries up in parallel and then put a regulator on them that limits the voltage output to your Airstream system to 12v (similar to what you must use inbetween your solar panel and your deep cycle battery). Found here for $16...
Solar Charge Controller
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