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Old 07-22-2017, 06:55 PM   #1
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Boondocking with 28' (generator?)

I just bought a 28' with 2 AC units. I live in Wisconsin, but it gets really hot and humid here so will definitely need AC.
1) Would a Honda 2000watts be enough?
2) If not what would be the next best option? Some solar, plus the generator?

I really don't want a big generator. They weigh about 120lbs, and if for some reason my wife has to lift it...well that's how much she weighs! Not going there.

Also I prefer LP. One spill of gas and it's a mess.

The dealer recommended the Honda. Pretty pricy, but why the Honda over others less expensive?

Also most of the time I will be hooked up on a site. But I even have a generator (LP) for my house. We live in a very wooded area, and my generator was on for 4 to 5 hours 2 days in the past week with storms. Any major wind and electricity could be off for hours. That's Wisconsin. So to me a generator is really kind of important for some backup not even just for boondocking. Not so sure about the solar panels.
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Old 07-22-2017, 07:06 PM   #2
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Without modification to your AC units ("easy start" discussed elsewhere on the forums) you'll need a pair of 2k generators hooked up in parallel to run one of your AC units at a time.

Having had a Yamaha 3k generator for 5 years and NOT having needed it extensively (because we tend to boondock when/where the weather is decent) this time around I decided to get a pair of the Briggs & Stratton P2200s. They're well-reviewed, about as quiet as the 2k Honda or Yamaha inverter generators and the pair with the parallel box costs just over what a single red or blue one does. I don't think anyone makes a ready-made propane kit for them, though, and they do for Hondas and Yamahas (and a couple of vendors sell them already converted.
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Old 07-22-2017, 07:08 PM   #3
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A 2000 watt generator will not run one AC unit let alone 2.
You should check the BTU rating for each unit as well as the current draw.
The generator(s) you choose should be rated least 20% above the full load current of one or both AC units depending on how many you choose to run at the same time.
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Old 07-22-2017, 08:04 PM   #4
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Lookup Easy Start as mentioned above. It's a modification to the AC to moderate the compressor startup amps such that it becomes possible to run one AC off of a single 2k generator. You'll see in those threads which generators are capable. Some with propane mods.

You potentially can get by with just one AC unit when boondocking so just one AC with easy start and one generator. Or if you decide to at the same time or later, both AC units with two 2k generators in tandem.

It's an awesome time because as recent as couple years ago, it was only possible to run ONE AC on tandem 2k generators.
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Old 07-22-2017, 08:36 PM   #5
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Hi

This is a multi layer issue. It's not just about how big a generator you need for 2 AC's at once. To keep things running, you likely need to be able to run the AC's *and* other stuff. You need to handle the "peak" load rather than the average. In addition, there's the usual "what do you need to do" stuff.

*IF* you want to cool down the AS in the middle of the day to 70F, you will need a lot of AC. You also will need a lot of power. You will need it over a number of hours in the middle of the day. If you get behind on cooling it's tough to make it up. That's not just a lot of generator, it's also a lot of gas. No matter how good the generator, it's noticeable noise.

If you will be out and about in the middle of the day (and don't care about 2 pm), that's different. Cooling things down starting about 7 PM is fairly easy (under typical conditions in the midwest). It will take some gas. Running generator(s) overnight (regardless of load) also uses gas. Running generators (of any sort) at night is frowned upon in most civilized nations Yes, the rules are different out in the middle of nowhere.

Take a look at your goal before you invest in 6 or 12KW of generators. It may be better to camp where you can get electric hookups in July and August ....

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Old 07-22-2017, 09:11 PM   #6
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Solar has nothing to do with AC unless you are talking about putting in a very large lithium power pack.
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Old 07-22-2017, 09:55 PM   #7
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We acquired the pair of Honda 2,000 watt generators shortly after we bought the 2013 25FB International Serenity. We kept the generators and other towing parts when we traded the 25FB in for the 2014 31' Classic.

The Classic has been tweaked with nine 100 watt solar panels and a 600 amp-hour lithium battery and a Magnum MS-2812 converter/charger. We can run a single A/C off the battery for several hours if necessary. Otherwise we have the twin Honda generators (now converted to propane only) with us when off the grid.

When we take the 2015 23D International Serenity out, we take one of the Honda generators along. The 23D has five 100 watt solar panels and a 300 amp-hour lithium battery. The hybrid Magnum MSH-3012 converter/generator can draw the needed additional startup in-rush power from the battery when the 2,000 watt generator is being used to run the A/C when off shore power.
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Old 07-23-2017, 08:25 AM   #8
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Generators for 28'

Thanks for your replies:

My conclusions:
1) The Briggs Stratton looks like the best way to go with 2 generators in parallel. Way cheaper, plus 200 more watts of output. Also there is an LP conversion kit based upon what I've seen on web. But will call engenerators to make sure. But if I have to use gas wouldn't be a deal breaker.
2) I think I may consider putting in Lithium batteries and putting in the Solar panels at some point. But not yet. Will need to get some experience before I drop that kind of change. My son is an electrical engineer for R&D of a big company and knows all about batteries since he develops their systems. Plus he can help me install the solar (nice to have genius in the family).
3) Then install the "Easy Start" to help with the AC units. Basically would run one unit at a time; back when sleeping, front when lounging.

At this point I will hold off on generators for awhile; might be some end of year deals. We won't be doing any boondocking until we are more experienced with the Airstream. At this point we are going to be limiting ourselves to sites with electricity until next year. But if I see a deal I can take advantage of it quickly.
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Old 07-23-2017, 10:01 AM   #9
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When the planets align correctly there are deals to be had on the P2200 generators... I ordered my pair when they were suddenly $60 less (each) than the normal street price I'd been seeing... so about a 10% discount. And the parallel box was $8 or $10 off at the same time... they were probably pushing product at the start of the camping season. I've used them as a test so far and they run the single AC in our Airstream just fine, but haven't used them "in production" just yet. The Eclipse Trip will be their first field use.
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Old 07-23-2017, 10:08 AM   #10
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I'm not exactly sure about this concern about weight. Once the generator is in the bed of the truck, you expect to be moving it often? I'm planning on a Champion 3500 watt inverter with dual fuel capability out of the box. It's about $1100-1200. Yes, it weighs 100 pounds. I'll get a friend to help me put it in the back, and then it's not moving again. Ever. That's my long term plan anyway.
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Old 07-23-2017, 11:05 AM   #11
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Bondocking with Generator

I have a FC 26 u with 2 AC's. It is expensive, but I have 2 Honda 3000 that run parallel on gas. I can run everything at the same time. I can take the trailer from over 100 down to 72 in just over 1/2 hour. The Generator's weight 80 lb. each with wheels and a built in handle. My wife and I are 75 and in poor health. I built a ramp and we can load them easy. I found some neat gas cans on Amazon that you put the put the nozzle in the tank and then push a button to start the gas going into the tank, no spill work great. I leave the generators in the pickup bed from the time I leave until I get home.

This has worked really well for me, I boondock a lot and stay in a lot of campsites with no electricity.

Good luck
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Old 07-23-2017, 11:40 AM   #12
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Beware that campgrounds that dont offer electric usually require that generators are turned off after 9 or 10 pm. You should consider the cost benefit ratio of purchasing a generator(s) that can produce 50 amp plus the space and weight they take up in the bed of your TV.
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Old 07-23-2017, 12:03 PM   #13
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Cheap normally does not equate to good!!!

The price of the oats is always cheaper after the horse eats it.

I have a 33 ft Classic and I use a Honda 7000 I and can run both airs thru the nigh, the generator idles down when not in use.

I have a pickup with a cap and the generator is in the back on a slide tray. I load it with a rolling engine crane. I normally leave it in the truck all the time.

I would not use the a/c starting aid or solar to run my air conditioners.

Hot trailer to 72 degrees in 30 minutes

Just my thoughts

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Old 07-23-2017, 03:17 PM   #14
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i have a cargo box on the back of my Interstate which contains two Yamaha EF2000iSv2 generators and one Yamaha ACC-0SS55-70-01 Sidewinder Parallel Cable 30AMP RV. These generators are easier to lift, and they run longer than some others. They will run my AC without hesitation if I find myself away from shore power. They have fuel shut off valves to drain the carb. I also have the plastic gas can with the push button which allows easy pouring with minimal mess. I keep my main power cable and water hose in the cargo box as well. I have three 100 watt panels on my roof which work great during the day keeping the batteries at 100 percent with the fridge/freezer and fans running, etc. If I want to run the AC during the day, then I use the on-board Onan generator. Last December, I only took one Yamaha generator on a cross-the-bottom Atlanta to California trip as no AC was needed. However, I just came back from Newfoundland and Nova Scotia where AC was needed 90 percent of the time. I used both Yamaha's on two nights while at Walmart.
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Old 07-24-2017, 07:08 AM   #15
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I have the Briggs and Stratton P3000 you can parallel this one with a P2200 along with the easy start on the AC units should be plenty of power. The Briggs was 900$ less than the Honda of the same size. We had Amazon ship it to our destination during our trip last year. It starts up very easy plus I can lift it into the truck bed without help. Comes with easy lift handles, telescoping handle as well. You pull it around like a suitcase. I leave the P3000 locked up in the back left corner of the truck so all I do if plug in the power cord and start it up. I have not added the propane mod but plan on it soon. I believe it's the only system out there where you can parallel the P3000 to the P2200 or two P3000's together, but I could be mistaken about that. I do know it save me 900$ just on the P3000 purchase alone. I think it weights in around 80 lbs.
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Old 07-24-2017, 07:14 AM   #16
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Good set up
But sadly most won't follow
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Old 07-24-2017, 08:23 AM   #17
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I wonder about the noise level (db rating) for the less expensive generator units? That is a consideration when in a closely packed RV park or camp ground.
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Old 07-24-2017, 08:37 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by switz View Post
I wonder about the noise level (db rating) for the less expensive generator units? That is a consideration when in a closely packed RV park or camp ground.
I'm sure it varies brand-to-brand but the P2200 pair, at least now while they're new, is about as quiet as the Honda 2ks. Frankly that's not all THAT quiet, my Yamaha 3k is quieter but won't fit under the tonneau on the truck.
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Old 07-24-2017, 09:14 AM   #19
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Everything requires some compromise. If the generator is big enough, it won't fit under a tonneau cover. You'll find you don't need the generator as much as you think. They're great for a lunch stop or a night at WalMart, but most campgrounds have power. Even if you're boon docking, it cools down at night and you're not sitting in the RV all day.
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Old 07-24-2017, 02:18 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daquenzer View Post
My conclusions:
1) The Briggs Stratton looks like the best way to go with 2 generators in parallel. Way cheaper, plus 200 more watts of output. Also there is an LP conversion kit based upon what I've seen on web. But will call engenerators to make sure. But if I have to use gas wouldn't be a deal breaker.
Two P2200 Briggs and Strattons should serve you well. Just thought you might like some more insight into specific generators though. Don't take the stated outputs literally because various manufacturers certainly do play games with these numbers. Kind of like the max watts ratings for sound systems.

Empirical data from from this post: http://www.airforums.com/forums/f448...ml#post1939377

Quote:
Originally Posted by Micro-Air View Post
Upnorththree - I know this is frustrating for you. Troutboy, thiel, and Mollysdad did their best to offer to you what is known (thanks guys). At present, we at Micro-Air have no confirmed cases of anyone using the Brigg & Stratton P2000 model inverter generator with EasyStart. The only confirmed cases are with the respective 2000W models from Honda, Yamaha, and Westinghouse.

Champion 73536i
That being said, like you, we were extremely disappointed to find out that the very economical Champion 2000W model could not do the job. As you can see in the scope shots in my post in the other thread, the generator's output literally "fell apart at the seams" during attempted startups of our 15k Dometic Penguin II with EasyStart. Our best engineering assessment tells us that it was the inverter itself and/or the internal DC capacitance bank that did not have the same capability as the other 2000W models that we know work.

Generator Specifications - Honda vs. Others
How a generator manufacturer specifies their generator is a bit of a numbers game, partly geared to entice sales, and partly geared to protect the manufacturer from being accused of making false claims. Honda took a very conservative approach. They specify a "rated" output of only 1600W, and a "maximum" output of 2000W. Their "maximum" can be maintained without the overload LED even blinking. Honda will never admit to this, nor will they ever spec it, but we have measured very brief surge capacities of that generator upwards to 30A (almost 2x). Even our 18kBTU marine A/C unit with learned starting currents in the low 20s started and ran fine on the Honda.

When we examined the specs of the Champion 2000W literature, we saw that they had cited similar numbers as the Honda, but not exactly. On page 12 of their user manual, we found the pivotal paragraph.
The overload indicator light will turn on when the load exceeds 1750W. If the load exceeds 2000W, the light will blink and cut power to the receptacles. To recover the power, you must shut off the engine, wait 5 seconds, and restart the generator.
After reading this, we then knew why it could not start our 15k Penguin II, with even with the reduced startup current provided by EasyStart.

B&S P2000
I just downloaded the Briggs & Stratton P2000 manual from their website. Reading and searching through it, they spec it differently than Honda. They state that their "rated" wattage is 1300W, and their "starting" wattage is 2000W. Notice the difference in how they labeled the 2000W rating as compared with how Honda labeled it. They also don't specify the wattage level at which the overload fault LED gets lit. Combining this with what they detailed on page 13 about maximum loads and the starting surges thereof, I would estimate that the P2000 will likely not be able to start either a 13.5kBTU or 15kBTU Penguin II rooftop with EasyStart. It certainly won't be able to keep the 15k running since that unit draws about 14.5A steady-state.

B&S P2200
Browsing the B&S website further, I found the P2200 model that didn't appear to cost much more than the P2000 after doing a quick Google Shopping search. That search also revealed that the P2000 model is reportedly discontinued! I searched the B&S site and then the internet, but I could not find the manual for the P2200. The P2200 has a "rated" wattage of 1700W and a "starting" wattage of 2200W. Given this, and what was documented in the P2000 manual, I feel more confident that the P2200 will start a 13.5k or 15k air conditioners with EasyStart; however, I have some doubts about it being able to keep it running. I say this because 1700W appears to be the maximum they want you to subject the generator to, steady-state. That's only 14.2A @120VAC. We know that the 13.5k Dometic Penguin II draws about 13A when running, and the 15k Penguin II draws about 14.5A. This means there is a good chance the P2200 will still not be able to sustain the 15k, even if it is somehow was able to start it (with EasyStart). Even with the 13.5k, having only about 1.2A of steady-state operation headroom doesn't leave much for any auxiliary loads in your trailer.

Summary
(Please allow me to make a disclaimer here that the following is my best engineering estimate after doing the B&S documentation/spec analysis and combining that with our other documented experience with the other brand generators.) In summary, the B&S P2200 will likely be able to start and run a 13.5k Dometic Penguin II with EasyStart, but it may not be able to start and likely won't be able to keep running a 15k Dometic Penguin II with EasyStart.

I hope this helps you. You can now evaluate everyone's input and maybe research some other sources, and that should enable you to ultimately make a generator choice. Remember to factor in the size of your A/C and the other auxiliary loads you intend to support.
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