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Old 07-06-2013, 11:26 AM   #1
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Boondocking or Rockdocking by Trial AND ERROR

I find myself giving "my idea" of what someone needs for Boondocking, and in my case a more extreme option I call Rockdocking, and have made one, big error in assuming that EVERYONE lives in the Western USA with millions of acres of open public spaces. With the various options of selecting a "prefix for threads" of WHERE each of us live and take our AS or any other kind of "tent on wheels", I must back track. Back track with smoke coming from my tires...

Each region of the USA has dramatic differences in how one would utilize their AS. My advice may be great and correct for Boondocking in low 2% humidity and nearly unlimited wide open public land availability but would be lousy advice camped outside Houston, Texas in the heat and humidity! My advice would be correct for water use, battery power conservation, electrical hook ups, etc., etc. But totally WRONG for the west coasts of California, Oregon and Washington with very limited if any public lands available. The same goes for most of the USA, and probably less so to our friends to the North, Canada who also have millions of acres to explore.

Those of you who take offense to the advice of a Western Boondocker's advice is probably correct for a Boondocker in the Southeastern USA in Mississippi... without an electrical hookup in July you would be a BBQed hot dog.

There was a Boondocking thread and I had to edit to a statement without being able to, when I saw 2005Ford's photographs and their definition. Their 32 foot AS is parked in the shade of tall trees with a large lake... with water in it and fish too. For us in the West, the lake's are far and fewer. So, I try to add the Prefix... WEST to my posts or threads. There is such a wide variance in how one part of this great country explores their out doors. The advice from a humid day of, lets say 15% humidity is nothing compared to Texas with a wonderful low humidity of 70% could be a blessing.

So please, before making assumptions on the advice you are being given... look to find out WHERE this individual is living. It makes such a huge difference, that it is almost inexcusable that I MISSED this whole concept in 2006.

I would say it would be nearly insane to take a 32 foot AS Boondocking... well, where I manage to go and the state of the public land roads I encounter on every camping trip... it is TRUE. But at many places in the Northeast, a 34 footer can drive in, back up into the trees, rent a boat and go fishing every morning. We have to climb up a high spot to get minimal cell phone service, if any service at all, in our camping adventures. So make this a wake up call for others, as myself, that everyone who adds to a Thread needs to consider WHERE this experience is meant.

For us a two rut Ranch road where we are not dragging our axle or sage brush scrapping at the sides of the tow vehicle and AS is OUR expected mode of travel. To others, a well compacted stone two lane, no brush to contend with, low hanging branches to drag off your vent covers or air conditioner... is THEIR mode of travel. Some of our "better roads" would put another group of out of the area passengers in a total white knuckle panic and horror!

When you see these "general boondocking" threads and various comments about what TV station do you listen to there... there is no local TV or Radio coming out of Jeffery City, Wyoming of the Gila National Forest or New Mexico.

If this thread receives ANY interest, I want to emphasize that MY ADVICE and EXPERIENCES are for the WESTERN USA. Maybe a bit of western Kansas, North and South Dakota and Texas above 3,000 feet of elevation. But NOT Memphis, Tennessee or New York...

If posts are made on any of these Boondocking threads, do several things:

(1) Where is this person living?
(2) What size of trailer is being used.
(3) What is 'their' definition of Boondocking... first of all.
(4) For clarity... did the poster tent camp, ever?
(5) What kind of beer do they drink?

If I missed a few things... bring the beer and fly rod and we can talk more about it. I am not leaving the Rockies, the dry air, the sunny days, starry nights and big winds. I enjoy the absence of people in an almost unlimited space to chose a camp site... good, bad or just plain ugly... but it is yours to use. Bring a Map, a GPS, plenty of ice and water and enjoy. You might have an accent, or add 'eh' while towing your boot around... but we are a lucky family of pulling overpriced trailers that have the admiration of the thousands of others pulling their pride and joy on our highways and back roads of this country, hoping to possess any AS in the future. Be generous with your advice and have a safe trip.
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Old 07-06-2013, 12:37 PM   #2
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We've lived and camped from coast to coast. Often with what a backpack or canoe will carry. Everywhere it is not only tolerable, but wonderful.

Or, what's the point here?

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Old 07-06-2013, 03:34 PM   #3
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Short on Information or not?

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Originally Posted by dkottum View Post
We've lived and camped from coast to coast. Often with what a backpack or canoe will carry. Everywhere it is not only tolerable, but wonderful.

Or, what's the point here?

doug k
*************
Is this a critical response that no matter where you go, it is wonderful and leave it at that... or do you miss the point I tried to get across?

In your Coast to Coast camping and living, which many of us have traveled and not been stranded in some abandoned cabin under a cottonwood tree... have you noticed that conditions are different and require preparations that are different?

Isn't 2% humidity, camped at 7800 feet elevation at 90 degrees F not hooked up to water or electricity in New Mexico... is a world of difference from 98% humidity at 150 feet elevation at 90 degrees on the coast in Texas? That is the POINT.

Would you park your AS in January using only the power and propane from your AS in Jackson, Wyoming and it is the same as Jacksonville, Florida the same time of the year? That is the POINT.

Some how I get the impression that your short statement does not add anything to the... I thought point of my thread of different locations require different needs. Somehow a canoe in West Wendover, Nevada being carried across the Salt Flats would look a bit out of place. Or a backpack with sleeping bag and a stainless steel pot hanging off the back in Manhattan, NY would not fit in...

As a Rivet Master... please tell, what you have learned with your 2,332 posts. I hope it was more than you added to my asking for "experienced" Boondockers or Rockdockers. Not some RV Park critic looking to put someone in their place. What is your point?

Let me guess. Power or Generator... always. Hook ups.... always. This was suppose to be about individuals doing what the majority of AS owners do not and would not want to take their AS.

Please... some of us write posts and threads to HELP. Some write snotty retorts and ask What's the Point? What is next... checking for grammar and punctuation? This is suppose to be open discussion for even people like myself, who is very comfortable doing what I do best... and that is parked off the grid. There are many trailer owners, AS or not, that are new at this and want to hear different people's opinions and experience. Your duty as a Rivet Master is not to make vague remarks to just sound off another thousand times... but facilitate this website and ADD something of value.

I should bite my tongue and resist the temptation to say what I am thinking... but not this time. You represent the website. ADD your experiences to the discussion. You create an atmosphere where "experienced back road AS campers" offering any kind of advice... just is not worth the grief.

Thank you for enlightening me, for no good deed goes unpunished. After a long hiatus on the Forum... I think with friends like yourself on the road... my dogs have taught me more about life and giving aid to those who ask, than an Airstream Forum Rivet Master. I am sad, indeed.
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Old 07-06-2013, 05:33 PM   #4
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Keep on discussing Rockdocking . . .

Hi Ray:

Glad to see you're back and posting purple sage advice on Rockdocking. I live in Colorado and have always enjoyed reading and absorbing your informative posts on traveling in remote western areas. Being recently retired I now have more time to expand my horizons by traveling towards those wide open, endlessly receding horizons available to us lucky folks out here.

Knowledge is learning from one's own mistakes and wisdom is learning from the mistakes (and experiences) of others. I get your point.

Please continue posting your thoughts and advice on Rockdocking because there are many of us quite types who read and learn from your western travel experiences. I usually don't post unless I have some hard data to contribute to a discussion or, occasionally, if a really bad joke just can't be contained and needs expulsion . . . or if I want to second a point of view. So please ignore those whose remarks might upset you and please continue to post your high and dry western experiences and adventures for those of us who would like to follow you down irresistible two rut roads. Thank you!
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Old 07-06-2013, 06:38 PM   #5
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From what I've read the west has many more opportunities to boondocks than the east coast. Just too many damn people in the east. I'm most relaxed in the middle of no-where. I've boondocked in -35F in a tent and 110F in the summer. Each extreme brought it's unique challenges. Mother nature isn't for you or against you, just there. Now with the Airstream the extremes have mellowed, plenty of heat, Refrig to keep the beer cold, dry accommodations and a comfy bed. Every now and then nature stops by for a visit.
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Old 07-06-2013, 07:41 PM   #6
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Ray,

I enjoy a nice cold IPA something along the lines of a Dogfish 90 minute or a Harpoon IPA. Come to think of it, if the beer is close to being cold I like it. Camping to me was tent camping and backpacking into remote areas winter, spring, summer and fall mostly in the Adirondacks. Mt. Marcy has similar conditions (I've been told) in the winter as Mt. Everest has in the summer. Could be BS but I got to experience 8-10 feet of snow, white out conditions with my house on my back. It was a blast and is what stories are made from. Now rock docking or boondocking with the AS is a piece of cake. As long as I can pull it into an area without destroying it I'll go for it. If I was camping below freezing I would use the trailer "dry" and not worry about freezing tanks, water lines, etc. The furnace and catalytic heater would keep me nice and warm compared to a tent in a snow bank. Camping in the Northeast I don't believe I've used the AC. The Fantastic fans keep the air moving and even at 90F it's not a problem. Never tried camping in the 118F experienced in the west. Might have to try out the AC at those temps, LOL. If the frig can't keep the beer cold then there is always the cooler with ice or the bottom of the lake. Your original post is right on, what I need to have an enjoyable experience in the northeast would be different than what you might need to have that same experience out west. Water would be of prime importance I would think. I've camped in Yellowstone the Grand Tetons and hiked in Colorado and each outing had to be planned around potable water. In the NE water abounds with springs, steams and lakes. The worst you would have to do would be boil the water depending on the source. Being an ex-backpacker ( getting too old to carry everything on my back) I find the 32' AS has more than enough room for two plus two dogs. So for spring, summer and fall boondocking in the Adirondacks the water tank is full, the propane tanks are full, grey and black water tanks are empty. Pit toliet and portable shower and generator and you can stay forever or until you run out of supplies (beer, etc.). Some day soon I hope to experience boondocking in the western states for a few months.

Bill
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Old 07-06-2013, 08:34 PM   #7
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Yup, it varies ...

Ray:

You surely are right about geography and terrain tending to control what we do and how we "camp." Fifty years ago, I was all about backpacking and still do it every so often, but nowadays, if I can get my Airstream in there using four wheel drive without tearing it up, that's my idea of a good time "getting away from it all." And I hate staying where there are other folks. Every so often I've stayed in commercial campgrounds, and once in an emergency, in a Wal-Mart lot. But that was awful. Yet some folks do this all the time and find it fun. I say good for them.

The point is that the conditions we encounter do determine how we do what we do. I've not spent much time with my coach in the Deep South or desert Southwest, where it often (always?) is over 100 degrees. I like mountains and forests where it is cooler and I don't have to have my a/c running to keep comfortable. That way, with my solar panels keeping the batteries up, I can run interior fans and stay pretty comfortable up to about 90. Then it gets touchy because I get grouchy. Have never stayed in the trailer below 5 degrees F and never when it was over 103.

Some folks NEED to be plugged in to shore power to feel safe, secure, comfortable. That's fine for them. It's just not for everyone, and sure not me. I bought the trailer I did because it's got dual axles for good straight line towing and the "reserve" of having four tires on the ground in case I lose one to some unexpected hazard ... but it's still small enough to go a lot of places where I probably shouldn't take it. And the solar plus load-limiting stuff such as LED lights let me stay out there for a long time and that's my idea of a fun getaway. Almost every place I stay, there's NO cell phone coverage and NO television. Swell.

I think that for many, a 34 footer isn't big enough, and some diesel pusher MoHo types are yearning for bigger and bigger. Terrific for them. But they just won't / can't get to where I go and that's a good deal for them and it's a good deal for me.

Each of us has an environment in which we're comfortable and where we like to be. Quartzsite for some, mountain rocks for others, beaches for a few, and forest and farm trails for still others. That's what makes the Forums discussions fun. (And it also means we don't all show up at the same place at the same time, which is a good thing!) So let's all keep on doing what we like - and appreciating that others might like something different ... I sure hope that others like what they do as much as I like what I do.
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Old 07-06-2013, 10:00 PM   #8
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Boondocking

Ray,

We've recently experienced our first two nights of boondocking on public lands near the Blue Ridge Parkway. During our western trip this fall we are planning several overnights in public lands without connections. I perceive your comments about the regional differences being very relevant. Thank you for your insight.
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Old 07-07-2013, 09:29 AM   #9
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As a visitor invitation services volunteer at the front desk of the San Juan National Forest office in Durango, I saw the requests for info regarding boondocking on public lands increase substantially over the past ten years. Quite frankly, there aren't a lot of places left where one can pull a 25' AS into a pristine meadow and watch the trout jump in a high altitude lake! Unlike private campground owners that need to maximize space usage, NF campgrounds are spread out with a modicum of privacy. On the other hand, more and more NF campgrounds are adding full or partial hookups at campgrounds easily accessed from major roads due to public pressure. Target Tree, Cayton, Junction Creek and Haviland Lake are just a few of the SJNF campgrounds easily accessed from Highways 160 and 550 with hookups.

There are few if any real "boondocking" sites left on public lands in SW Colorado that don't have some restrictions.
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Old 07-07-2013, 11:19 AM   #10
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Denis4x4 is Right about much of Colorado! But... Ouray, check it out!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denis4x4 View Post
As a visitor invitation services volunteer at the front desk of the San Juan National Forest office in Durango, I saw the requests for info regarding boondocking on public lands increase substantially over the past ten years. Quite frankly, there aren't a lot of places left where one can pull a 25' AS into a pristine meadow and watch the trout jump in a high altitude lake! Unlike private campground owners that need to maximize space usage, NF campgrounds are spread out with a modicum of privacy. On the other hand, more and more NF campgrounds are adding full or partial hookups at campgrounds easily accessed from major roads due to public pressure. Target Tree, Cayton, Junction Creek and Haviland Lake are just a few of the SJNF campgrounds easily accessed from Highways 160 and 550 with hookups.

There are few if any real "boondocking" sites left on public lands in SW Colorado that don't have some restrictions.
*********
AS Boondockers... take note on this from Denis4x4... it is TRUE. Myself, we do not do a lot of back country camping in Colorado, as the western half of the State is the Switzerland of the Lower 48 States. There are many commercial RV Parks and well groomed Forest Service camping... but you might have to be camped in any place available, so you can locate, later, finding "more interesting camp sites". Again, Monday to Thursday for finding an open spot AND sit tight over the weekends! The locals know where they can find the best spots, getting there on Friday afternoons.

But... in the Ouray, Colorado area? The mining town has a lot of interesting history, down town shops and to the Southeast of town, many remnants of the town's prior mining history. The Fall color change will want you to buy a home in town... but when the snow flies... you will want to move. As narrow as this canyon where the town is "wedged" you would think your elbows will be rubbing against both sides of the Uncompahgre National Forest!

N 37 degrees 49.2', W107 degrees 42.8' at 9505 elevation

Traveling South East, out of Ouray on Highway 145, you will climb out of town on a switch backed well paved State Highway. The view on the way up is worth the trip. There are also pullouts to look down the valley and town. On the Northeast side of the road you will see the Mining buildings and "A Frames". It looked like rock collectors were out searching the mine dumps, as well when we drove through.

This camping spot is along a stream/creek and frequented by those towing horse trailers and they park just off the side of the entry to this spot on a straight, wide dirt graded road. You might find two or four parked to water their horses or just to walk them for a short break. You can see the wide open area, with several levels where people are camped with tents and trailers. The San Miguel River (more of a stream) flows cold and I guess you could throw the dog and kids into it. I believe this is BLM property. We were there in September 2011.

A short note:

Colorado, Western Montana (lots of brush in the NW, but nice camping in the SW section) and much of Arizona are very tough states for BLM or Forest Service camping. Our favorite States are New Mexico, Wyoming, Idaho, SW Montana (higher elevation, not covered with brush), Arizona (paid RV camping primarily), Idaho (when you can find a FLAT spot in a canyon) and then Colorado.

Although RV Parks for pay and Forest Service camps are scattered about, many offer private sites that give you the impression that you are roughing it with some decent facilities with water pumps.

If you are traveling from out of the area... the first year is a learning process. After traveling, make NOTES (with GPS location) OF OPEN AREAS IN THE NATIONAL FOREST AND BLM lands that are being used by Boondockers. Bird Dogging we call it. Then... you are becoming more comfortable with just attaching the trailer, no reservations and off for a real... adventure and have potential back up locations to enjoy the cool air!
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Old 07-07-2013, 02:08 PM   #11
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Here's the GPS location for our favorite Colorado boondocking site, near Wolf Creek Pass Ski Area. Sorry, no photos:

37° 31.408'N 106° 46.094'W

Note: There are several National Forest campgrounds nearby that are also very nice, if you want to be closer to other campers.
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Old 07-08-2013, 09:55 AM   #12
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As a forum member whose about 12 months out from an order/purchase, I want to thank Ray and Phoenix both for the absolute coordinates listings to bookmark and put into the book of places to find! (Ray -- Check GoogleMaps of your location; I count a good 8-10 slide-out RVs the day the satelite photo was taken )

I've already started taking weekend trips out into the George Washington national forest to drive the timber and fire roads in search of the perfect coordinates I could perhaps share back in time.

Post Edit: For those in the Virginia/West Virginia areas, what I am using as my 'master document' for searching out sites is at external URL:
http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_...rdb5392127.pdf
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Old 07-08-2013, 06:39 PM   #13
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Ray,

I'm trying to visualize the spot outside Ouray. But 145 leaded back to Telluride, right? 550 take you out toward Silverton and up the mountain. I was given some spots off 550 bet Ourayand SIlverton (east of the Hwy), too.

We are getting ready to make that move and boondock "off the beaten path". I'm glad to hear from an "official" that BLM sites are rare in our neck of the woods. We just came back from spending 10 days through Durango, Cortez and Telluride. The first 4 days had us in RV Parks due to work and getting ready for 6 days w/o w/e/s. We stayed in Mary Illium Campground off 145. No longer a campground accessible other than for the Bluegrass Festival. It's a shame because it was probably a nice area for camping. The river bank and the trees....beautiful. It was beautiful even while there was a "free for all" atmosphere!

Back to boondocking: I think we need to get a better grip on GPS for one. Then get a little confidence for being "totally alone".

I read that there was an AS who spent a week off 160 in Hesperus in a field/meadow a few weeks agao. They say it was BLM. Is there any website/publication that shows any of these spots to camp? I know you said to make a list of when we see the coordinates mentioned here, but , wow, it would be great if there was even just a little "guide".

Well, maybe there will be a Thread: "My fav BLM spots"

Thanks for the "push". I'm sure we we'll be back up in "switzerland" in the fall like last year. We, too, have our fav spot!
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Old 07-08-2013, 07:53 PM   #14
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OURAY, COLORADO- Highway 550

[QUOTE=BAAMbi7;1324198]Ray,

I'm trying to visualize the spot outside Ouray. But 145 leaded back to Telluride, right? 550 take you out toward Silverton and up the mountain. I was given some spots off 550 bet Ouray and SIlverton (east of the Hwy), too.
*******
I wish I could go back and do an edit to my Highway 145 to 550...

It IS Highway 550. Nobody else caught that one big mistake. THUS, the Trial and ERROR title. IanPoulin's post was interesting with the GoogleMaps view with a caravan of RV's parked at this area. There is plenty of room here to find a space, but as Ian mentioned... check GoogleMaps to see the area before you get there to get a feel of the area.

Thank you for setting it straight. It has been a few years that I was on Highway 145 and I never made any notes in my Atlas about any camping we did on that stretch of road. The last time we were South of Grand Junction, Colorado on Highway 50 about 12 miles Southeast and made a turn to the North on K-50 Road/Wells Gulch, 1/2 mile on good gravel, uphill and spent an evening from coming out of the deserts of western Utah trip. There are a few areas to pick from on BLM Land, not much there other than decent rest stop for the evening. Look to the West side of the road... that is where we pulled into it with ease. On the south side of the Highway 50 are homes along the Gunnison River, so... they beat you to it. No GPS as I had no reason to offer this as a destination to visit. The K-50 gravel road goes up hill maybe another 4 miles... so if you are there and curious... tell us about it.
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