Boondocking and waste

[AZ-JH]

["That is what McDonalds and gas station stops are for."]

We still prefer boondocking, but now that our car camping days are over for good, I've used my LAST McDonald's/gas station/rest stop bathroom out on the road. Too many of them are just trashed by the general public and disgusting (pee on the seat/floors and much worse).

Another issue with car camping was stumbling out of the trailer in the middle of the night, half asleep, and using the woods in the freezing cold! Never again. We always hit the road with a full fresh water tank and still do pretty well stretching our water supply while enjoying boondocking.

[Shacksman]

Originally Posted by mojo

I do not understand why someone would graduate from tent camping to buy an airstream and then not make use of its comfort features. I read that so many do not use the commode and prefer to s**t in a pit toilet or behind a bush. And why shower outside under a bag of water or the community shower when you have the privacy of your own bathroom.

If you are familiar with a groover, then you should understand why they make you use them out in the desert. Your human waste does not disintegrate. Nor does your toilet paper or your dish water, food waste, soap scum and human hair.

To bury it in little cat holes around a common camp area is disgusting. Have some appreciation for your environment. It will not keep the animals away. When we hike into pristine desert areas, we bag used TP and waste into ziplocs and carry it out.

Boondocking is DRY camping. With our airstreams, we have the luxury of being able to remain SELF CONTAINED. Leave nothing but tire tracks and a few campfire ashes, if a firepit already exists.

Absolutly right, we have never used a puplic toilet since we got the trailer!

[ScrapIrony-2]

Originally Posted by w7ts

I have some bad news for you.

If your waste contains any of the bacteria or viruses that you mention, then YOU are already infected with them. Carrying it out will not cause you any harm.

It would seem to make much more sense for you to carry them out with you, than to leave them for the next people who use the area. Burying them just provides them with a nice place to rest while waiting for the next person to dig a hole for another deposit.

Or perhaps, you mark the spot with a little plastic bio-hazard flag.

Ken

We ALL are infected...the body human is a bag of infection...that we can survive ourselves is one of life's little mysteries. So, I carry it out...where does it ultimately end up? Will the plastic bag I so tenderly store it in break down(biodegrade) any faster than its contents? Every time you sneeze or cough, you are expelling staphlococcus aureus...it LIVES in all of us...a hole and a shovel works fine for me, and prevents spread...the park services often use pit toilets(don't get me started), and there are acres of leech fields for septic systems...just a few observations...mike

[Ray Eklund]

I find it interesting that one person has this image that you can step out of your trailer and defecate. The vision of the group camper is not the Rockdocker or true dry camper's actuality.

Pack out your feces... great. We do pack out the wife's toilet paper when she urinates in the back country. I am not concerned that a brown bear is going to eat my feces and become ill. I think they are bit more durable that we.

I can see that I am out of other's comfort zones. This is something that reading a book about someone's experiences of back country camping needs to be experienced first hand. If you try it, stay two weeks. Then you will understand. Obviously I cannot get my idea across in a way that will be understood by many. If you can find my camping spots, you already understand. If you can find my camping spot while we are there... it is already too crowded.

[Bill M.]

I am a wimp. I find it awful easy to just hook up and move to a dump station every 5 days or so. Fill up the water and go back to camp.

[Boondocker]

One of the big attractions of a camper is having a place to poop. Really. That goes in dump stations. Grey water is negotiable.

[tkasten]

Originally Posted by Ray Eklund

If you can find my camping spots, you already understand. If you can find my camping spot while we are there... it is already too crowded.

Ray - I agree with you 100%

[Ag&Au]

Originally Posted by Ray Eklund

I find it interesting that one person has this image that you can step out of your trailer and defecate. The vision of the group camper is not the Rockdocker or true dry camper's actuality.

Pack out your feces... great. We do pack out the wife's toilet paper when she urinates in the back country. I am not concerned that a brown bear is going to eat my feces and become ill. I think they are bit more durable that we.

I can see that I am out of other's comfort zones. This is something that reading a book about someone's experiences of back country camping needs to be experienced first hand. If you try it, stay two weeks. Then you will understand. Obviously I cannot get my idea across in a way that will be understood by many. If you can find my camping spots, you already understand. If you can find my camping spot while we are there... it is already too crowded.

If I am the one person you are talking about, I have that image because that is what you are portraying. This is a forum about travel trailers and motor homes, not back country camping. You can not get to back country with any motorized vehicle. That is what makes it back country.

I don't need to experience reading a book about back country camping. I have down plenty of it and I don't use a RV to get there, I walk.

Do you or do you not go some place in your Airstream for a few days and walk into the area surrounding your campsite and defecate?

If so, you are definitely out of my comfort zone and in my "I can't believe anyone would behave with so little respect for fellow campers zone".

Perhaps you are doing this on your private property. That I could accept, but not understand.

Or perhaps, you are posting this just to evoke the reaction that I am giving you.

I have four cats whose personal habits are the same as you describe. However, I don't walk through their litter boxes. But it seems you expect other people to walk through yours.

Ken

[ScrapIrony-2]

Hey Kids,
Time to back up a little and accept that we don't always react or perform the same. The 'green' guy that tells me how to act while he drives his SUV is no better than me, but possibly better versed...that's all...I've buried my leavings since I was a scout, and that's been a long(very long) time ago...pack it out if you want, but it still ends up being buried somewhere...I will pit mine...NOW, how's about a campfire and happy hour...???

[mojo]

Indians did it…???

The whole point of this thread is to help others who want to boondock learn what others know regarding dealing with black and gray waste.

The fact that there are septic tanks still in use in rural areas or that bears and cows s**t in the woods does not make it acceptable for people with self contained campers to go dumping their personal waste all over the ground.

I don’t think urinating behind a bush is a problem as long as you don’t leave a clump of TP behind. And all of us hikers have had to take a crap off the trail at one time or another, just don’t leave a clump of TP laying there, stuff it into a ziplock.

I found our gray tank full between boondock sites once and with no dump station for 200 miles. I let the gray tank dribble drain down the highway for 75 miles where I knew it would be able to evaporate. But I felt guilty and later bought a blue boy to double the capacity of my gray water camping time.

The whole point is that there are many of us who boondock/rockdock and desert dog it. And anywhere you can drag an Airstream and park it is not virgin territory. Others have or probably will find your campsite some day. And the last thing I want to find is a series of cat holes that have been left behind by others.

There are 300 million souls in America today, 20 million more than there were just 10 years ago. And the fastest growing areas are in the wide-open West.

So regardless of what the Indians did, or that we used to dump raw sewage into our rivers and lakes for decades, doesn’t make it acceptable to dump human waste anywhere we want. Especially in those special pristine spots somewhere off the grid.

[Ray Eklund]

I am giving an option to this subject matter. One reason I do not do a lot of back country camping in Colorado is because there are too many people, too many campgrounds and too much noise. I deal seven days a week with people in my business. We pack the trailer and two Blue Heelers to get away and enjoy ourselves for the peace and quiet. There are a few trailer campers that do share my philosophy, but not many. I have been back country camping all of my life and have never encountered an Airstream. Low clearances. Arctic Fox trailers have plenty of clearance and can get around, as an example.

I liked Airstream for outer shell integrity and adapted the interior for our needs. What do you think Wally Byam did for toiletry? He is probably agreeing with me right now... I am not trying to make anyone convert to a lifestyle in camping that does not fit their personality. If you are not a hunter, you probably have not taken a trailer far back into the back country. Hunting groups I find camped are 60% tent camping and 40% trailer. When your are fifty miles from any town, rough roads and steep grades it is not a trip to look forward to with frequent black and or grey water dumps. Even if the town HAD facilities. Doubtful.

I need not defend the use of MY trailer. The microwave was pulled out years ago. No value for back country camping. I cannot use the air conditioner, but that would be tougher to remove. As for stinky out houses. I can handle it. McDonalds and WalMarts have clean, decent bathrooms. Gas stations... well you are probably correct, but it is the PATRON that is the slob. Not I.

To each his own. I am using our Airstream among a narrow group of outdoor orientated individuals. But I am not bashful to offer my experiences to help those who are tempted... to the dark side, to some... to engage this choice. The world is getting crowded. That is not my doing. I am just working outside the urban lifestyle of a typical AS owner wanting to impose their philosophy onto those of us who have lived country their entire lives and understand the outdoors. You can crap in a bag and stow it in your back pack, or in your trailer, but when it is not necessary, please opt me our of being politically correct. Just make this another option to one's trailer camping experience.

[tphan]

Another Coloradoan here, with this errant thought: I think Moab in the early 80's is an example of too many people camping with too few bathrooms, of the eventual unsustainability of DIY sewage disposal. For a more extreme example yet, visit India. The point being, if you can get there with your trailer, so can other folks after you. If all 47,881 Forum members found your boondocking spot and also used cat-holes while camped there, I doubt it would remain on your top-10 list.

[Boondocker]

No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible.

[DanielB]

Growing up we didn't have indoor plumbing. With a family of 10 there were definitely do's and don'ts regarding doing your business outside.

As far as pee was concerned, the big thing was don't pee off of the porch or anywhere close to the house. If you make a habit of it, it will start to stink around there. Other than that you can pretty much pee anywhere. Just try to be discreet.

When doing a #2 outside, make yourself scarce. Get as far away from any place where other people may walk or even stray. 25 ft off of a main trail is not scarce. Never worried about burying it. Never noticed that it stayed around very long. Maybe the coons ate it. Your "place" should not be discovered.

Don't use toilet paper. Use leaves or whatnot. If you aren't so sure an appropriate material will be there when you get there, keep a lookout while you are on your way and you can usually find something you like to use to pick up and carry with you on your way.

If I were in a camping situation and there were any other people around, I'd just do what they do. Gotta be civilized. Otherwise, I'd prefer outside.

[noreen&sal]

When using leaves, make sure its not poison ivy. Sal.

[ESCAPE POD]

Originally Posted by ESCAPE POD

After our last trip to the desert, I agree with 2air's recommendation above of using captured "light" grey water to flush the toilet. We keep a 7-gallon "blue cube" container outside of our Bambi, which we often use to rinse cookware and/or wash hands. A small basin or pail under the spigot collects the runoff (no "chunk" water with food particles; we scrape/wipe out pots and dishes before washing). We also use a smaller tupperware container in the galley sink to catch the "light" grey water, which is then collected (oil funnel with a sink strainer at the tip) in an empty gallon water container for use in flushing the toilet (turn off pump, of course). Those saved flushes add up to at least an extra shower for each of us over a week's trip.

Until we adopted the backup freshwater containers from Walmart, the above was our procedure (see post 64). But adding fresh water without dumping grey water can lead to a buildup of grey water before the black tank fills up. Now we capture "light" grey water in a gallon container, and water a different bush with it every day. We're not adverse to pit toilets when they are available (why exhaust tank space when there are facilities nearby, or fast food places with bathrooms when traveling?). Of course, our Bambi's tanks are considerably smaller than many who have posted here. The line we draw is dumping solid human waste or emptying from the grey water tank anywhere other than a dump station. When the black tank fills up, we hitch up and go to the nearest dump. If we're on the road, an occasional overnight stay at an RV park with hookups can help. Otherwise, we will use truck stop dump stations. When it comes to water/waste, be smart, and conserve fresh water with a little creativity!

[hollyhunter]

Originally Posted by ESCAPE POD

Until we adopted the backup freshwater containers from Walmart, the above was our procedure (see post 64). But adding fresh water without dumping grey water can lead to a buildup of grey water before the black tank fills up. Now we capture "light" grey water in a gallon container, and water a different bush with it every day. We're not adverse to pit toilets when they are available (why exhaust tank space when there are facilities nearby, or fast food places with bathrooms when traveling?). Of course, our Bambi's tanks are considerably smaller than many who have posted here. The line we draw is dumping solid human waste or emptying from the grey water tank anywhere other than a dump station. When the black tank fills up, we hitch up and go to the nearest dump. If we're on the road, an occasional overnight stay at an RV park with hookups can help. Otherwise, we will use truck stop dump stations. When it comes to water/waste, be smart, and conserve fresh water with a little creativity!

We love the "Airhead", expensive but worth it.

[ScrapIrony-2]

Anyone who says they have never peed in the woods is either lying or never been out of downtown. Watching a large domestic animal take a leak is more fluid I can produce in three days...cow patties are about the same ratio...the argument that "if everyone did it at the same spot" just doesn't, pardon me, hold water. In the desert, long term campers generally have greener 'pastures' and they know why, the rangers know why, but no one acts 'official' unless you get caught with yer hose in yer hand...black water belongs to a dump station, and if you fill up away from a dump, use a plastic bag to line your toilet with...double bag when done, and save it for the next friendly dumpster.
Pooping in the wilderness is not a great hazard unless you do it on or right next to a trail or waterway...S H O V E L...use it to do more than scrape the surface "kitty litter" over the pile...shovels were made to...well...shovel...dig a decent hole before your business, make your deposit, and secure it with the pile of dirt you dug up...pretty simple concept, and one most people ignore, don't know, or don't care about. 10-45 gallons of black tank is a whole different thing...gray water makes trees, shrubs, and bushes really happy in dry climates, it absorbs rapidly, and surface moisture goes away in an hour or so. Many 'green' environments divert household grey water to watering lawns and gardens, and many cities use partially treated water to irrigate their parks and roadsides. Golf courses use partially treated water for fairways and greens. Gray water is NOT a real issue. USING gray water as an issue IS...and there is a difference in a dump in a hole when necessary, and dumping a black water tank...
While in the scouts, I had my share of digging latrines...I always opted for the digging, after the first filling I had to do...pee and poop are not gonna just magically disappear, but there are thoughtful and sensible ways to deal with it...you want to go back-country...?...watch out for the bear/deer/marmot/elk/coyote/rabbit/moose/bird crap...it will be more prevalent than human feces...put it to rest, folks...I'm gonna pee in the woods, and if #2 catches me short, I'm gonna go, then cover it...civilization is a thin veneer.