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Old 10-13-2010, 05:38 PM   #71
Don't forget your cat nap
 
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Thumbs up Showering

Perhaps everyone already knows this, but just in case.
I learned this when I was in the navy. We called it a sea shower. I have also heard it called a navy shower.
Turn the water on and get wet.
Turn the water off.
lather with a bar of soap and shampoo if desired.
Turn the water on.
Rinse off.
Turn the water off.
Much less water use than running continuously.
If you really want to conserve water use the Marine Corps shower.
Every morning use armpit deodorant.
Change shirt when its smell overpowers the deodorant.
Take a Navy shower when body smell overcomes the deodorant. (this step not necessary when camping alone.)

Regards,

Ken
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Old 10-13-2010, 07:07 PM   #72
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Black tank is large enough to keep until a dump station is convenient. Grey gets dumped anywhere, and often.
That's the whole reason there's separate holding tanks.
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Old 12-23-2010, 08:37 PM   #73
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Never used a GROOVER before???

Gee... I can see the serious outdoor crowd have not stepped into this.

If you ever take a large river raft "vacation" down the Colorado River through Canyonlands and the Grand Canyon there are no flushers on this trip. The trip guides put up a small shower tent and you crap into something that looks like a heavy garbage disposal- a groover. The guide in the morning attaches the lid and his cook grabs one of the two handles to carry it back to the raft to stow it. When one is filled up the seat moves over to an empty groover to fill. You need to pee, find a bush or a spot around a vertical cliff. Bashful, well hold your breath and sit on the groover. Feces pollute the Colorado River, so peeing into the river is fine as it is not even a trace in a few yards of water flow. You will never camp (boondock, rockdock, dry camping or whatever your choice) the same... ever.

When you are really camping, water is essential. You do not pee into it, crap in it or waste it. Even a shower should be a jump into a river, or shower every third or fourth day if you want to look beautiful to the chipmunk population.

Well water with bad minerals in it? At least minerals will not give you a case of diarrhea that the friendly restaurant food just might. Our home uses well water from 400 feet below our septic system. Best water since whiskey was distilled. Forest Service water is top on my list. City and town water... recycled sewage with chlorine added for taste. Kansas City's Missouri River water was processing the "processed" clean sewage from up stream.

Before we pull off into our dry camping area we fill the fresh water tank and the four 8 gallon "gasoline" jugs. You know the red ones. They cost a bit more but are much thicker. If someone steals a full one from you, they might just run into engine trouble... soon. We write WATER on ours. When they are empty, a trip into town or the forest service well water pump to top them off. Each fits into one of those heavy duty plastic milk cases so they do not flip over on a rough road.

Ifs we have a full service RV water, electricity and sewer hookups, you still never use our john. We can store bread and cheese in ours using this wasted spare storage space. Maybe a good selling point, some day. That is what McDonalds and gas station stops are for. After one our camping trips, the kids DO APPRECIATE that running tap, a flushing toilet and a shower.

I know. This sounds a bit extreme. It is not. Most of the world's population would think they were in paradise to have a trailer to live it and do their business in the wilderness we have so much to spare. Sure, if you have twelve trailers in a circle, whizzing around the camp fire, it could get tedious. But the way we travel trailer camp... few trailer owners want to experience the raw nature appeal and a gathering crowd is not a problem. Our kids were both results of vigorous camping experiences beyond the water hose, generator and electrical cord. There is something to howl about when the water is sweet and the wildlife smell your scent markings out in the woods.

We never have black water to dump. We shower in a groover tent with the outside shower system, when a river is not available. We collect dish water into a plastic two gallon pan in the sink and I whip it into my bush of choice. We brush our teeth with a shared plastic cup, outdoors and spit into the grass. If we have grey water, there is little. We tow a tent with wheels and marvels that the good fairies at Airstream bolted into the interior.

I did not buy my trailer to fill the black water tank and worry about where to pee if it is full. I carry two shovels, a his and hers, and give the ladies their compass direction as their own. Oh... and now I am a grandfather with a grandson to share a shovel. Born in New York City. Give us time and we will have him whizzing among the trees and rolling rocks over and leave something for our politicians to fight over. Is this not a great country... or what!!! To each his own, but come on people... try it some day. When that spouse gets a whiff of real body odor at the end of the day... that is when you need the shower. Start that family with the moon and stars as your witnesses. It worked for us and the rest of you can wonder... is Ray just full of it... or is there something to this Rockdocking experience?

Edited: I think the "8" gallon jugs are 6 gallon. They are the squatty ones that fit snug into the milk crate.
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Old 12-25-2010, 03:16 PM   #74
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Never used a GROOVER before??? Part 2-addendum

Please let me reveal one thing about backwood restrooms.

Someone was concerned about animals, even your own dog, will devour your feces like desert. Do not be concerned, other than the thought of them licking you (kisses my wife calls them). Human waste rarely have parasites... unless you never wondered why you cannot gain weight and have digestion problems... It is better that your pet(s) dig up your feces than eat a raccoons, coyote, bear and other omnivore or carnivore's. Rabbits are great for giving your dog tape worms... But, I wander.

The biggest thing I find is toilet paper blowing around and in bushes. They do not break down very fast and I would guess the paper that might or does, may not either in a arid climate. It is toilet paper that catches your attention. The Forest Service have handouts on how to use techniques for waste burial that do not pollute water or a campsite that has a lot of hunter use.

This might seem like a cracked record that repeats itself, but I have seen plenty of examples to not understand why people do what they do in the back country. Our back country is ours. Some individuals come through once, trash their campsite, not to return. We police our camp site of anything we see of ours and others. The Forest Service has dumpsters to drop all of this rubbish.
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Old 12-25-2010, 04:33 PM   #75
Don't forget your cat nap
 
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Originally Posted by Ray Eklund View Post

..............................


We never have black water to dump. We shower in a groover tent with the outside shower system, when a river is not available. We collect dish water into a plastic two gallon pan in the sink and I whip it into my bush of choice. We brush our teeth with a shared plastic cup, outdoors and spit into the grass. If we have grey water, there is little. We tow a tent with wheels and marvels that the good fairies at Airstream bolted into the interior.

I did not buy my trailer to fill the black water tank and worry about where to pee if it is full. I carry two shovels, a his and hers, and give the ladies their compass direction as their own. Oh... and now I am a grandfather with a grandson to share a shovel. Born in New York City. Give us time and we will have him whizzing among the trees and rolling rocks over and leave something for our politicians to fight over. Is this not a great country... or what!!! To each his own, but come on people... try it some day. When that spouse gets a whiff of real body odor at the end of the day... that is when you need the shower. Start that family with the moon and stars as your witnesses. It worked for us and the rest of you can wonder... is Ray just full of it... or is there something to this Rockdocking experience?

Edited: I think the "8" gallon jugs are 6 gallon. They are the squatty ones that fit snug into the milk crate.

Ray, I understand what you are saying and believe you are very careful about your waste. I used to camp like you describe years ago when I was much younger, and there were considerably less people to mess things up.

However, my opinion is that today with our overpopulated country and scarcer recreation lands, there is just too much use of the land to make burying your waste a viable thing to do anywhere you can tow you trailer to. If your are somewhere you have to hike two or three days to get into, perhaps it might still be possible to bury you waste without messing everything up.

However if everyone were burying their waste in places one can drive to, the ground around camp sites would look like a gopher field and smell way worse than one.

I doubt seriously is this will have any effect, but my conscience requires that I say this:

I would like to request for the sake of the rest of us, that you stop burying your waste around campsites apt to be used by others. If you know where campsites are that are not used by others, I would sure like to know where they are.

Regards,

Ken
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Old 12-25-2010, 07:31 PM   #76
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The 'Pack it out' approach is sensible, but I'm not gonna carry a bag of crap out...we have things called shovels. Human waste does carry some serious bacteria and viral contaminations...hepatitis a,b,c,and d, and the ever-present but potentially fatal e. coli...I worry more about my dog going after the kitty litter treats...she treats human waste like it's...well...human waste. The government attitude about waste disposal is as varied as the government agencies...gray water is fine to some...if you wash dishes in a basin, you can dump it...NO GRAY WATER AT ALL...and I often believe enforcement is based on last night's sleep or this morning's coffee...we are discreet about the gray water, and use a dump for the black. Some casinos don't allow RVs because folks have dumped in their parking lots...bad form, bad taste, and really poor hygiene...
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Old 12-25-2010, 07:36 PM   #77
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BTW...you guys can pee in a jug, if you have squeamish neighbors...empty it out in a circle around your campsite when the appropriate darkness has fallen, and it will discourage foraging by coyotes...
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Old 12-26-2010, 06:38 AM   #78
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you still never use our john. We can store bread and cheese in ours using this wasted spare storage space.
Where exactly are you storing these things? Sounds a bit scary to me.
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Old 12-26-2010, 09:17 AM   #79
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I do not understand why someone would graduate from tent camping to buy an airstream and then not make use of its comfort features. I read that so many do not use the commode and prefer to s**t in a pit toilet or behind a bush. And why shower outside under a bag of water or the community shower when you have the privacy of your own bathroom.

If you are familiar with a groover, then you should understand why they make you use them out in the desert. Your human waste does not disintegrate. Nor does your toilet paper or your dish water, food waste, soap scum and human hair.

To bury it in little cat holes around a common camp area is disgusting. Have some appreciation for your environment. It will not keep the animals away. When we hike into pristine desert areas, we bag used TP and waste into ziplocs and carry it out.

Boondocking is DRY camping. With our airstreams, we have the luxury of being able to remain SELF CONTAINED. Leave nothing but tire tracks and a few campfire ashes, if a firepit already exists.
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Old 12-26-2010, 09:38 AM   #80
Don't forget your cat nap
 
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The 'Pack it out' approach is sensible, but I'm not gonna carry a bag of crap out...we have things called shovels. Human waste does carry some serious bacteria and viral contaminations...hepatitis a,b,c,and d, and the ever-present but potentially fatal e. coli......

I have some bad news for you.

If your waste contains any of the bacteria or viruses that you mention, then YOU are already infected with them. Carrying it out will not cause you any harm.

It would seem to make much more sense for you to carry them out with you, than to leave them for the next people who use the area. Burying them just provides them with a nice place to rest while waiting for the next person to dig a hole for another deposit.

Or perhaps, you mark the spot with a little plastic bio-hazard flag.

Ken
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Old 12-26-2010, 10:19 AM   #81
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McDonald's and Gas Stations?

["That is what McDonalds and gas station stops are for."]

We still prefer boondocking, but now that our car camping days are over for good, I've used my LAST McDonald's/gas station/rest stop bathroom out on the road. Too many of them are just trashed by the general public and disgusting (pee on the seat/floors and much worse).

Another issue with car camping was stumbling out of the trailer in the middle of the night, half asleep, and using the woods in the freezing cold! Never again. We always hit the road with a full fresh water tank and still do pretty well stretching our water supply while enjoying boondocking.
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Old 12-26-2010, 10:25 AM   #82
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I do not understand why someone would graduate from tent camping to buy an airstream and then not make use of its comfort features. I read that so many do not use the commode and prefer to s**t in a pit toilet or behind a bush. And why shower outside under a bag of water or the community shower when you have the privacy of your own bathroom.

If you are familiar with a groover, then you should understand why they make you use them out in the desert. Your human waste does not disintegrate. Nor does your toilet paper or your dish water, food waste, soap scum and human hair.

To bury it in little cat holes around a common camp area is disgusting. Have some appreciation for your environment. It will not keep the animals away. When we hike into pristine desert areas, we bag used TP and waste into ziplocs and carry it out.

Boondocking is DRY camping. With our airstreams, we have the luxury of being able to remain SELF CONTAINED. Leave nothing but tire tracks and a few campfire ashes, if a firepit already exists.
Absolutly right, we have never used a puplic toilet since we got the trailer!
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Old 12-26-2010, 11:50 AM   #83
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got it covered...?

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I have some bad news for you.

If your waste contains any of the bacteria or viruses that you mention, then YOU are already infected with them. Carrying it out will not cause you any harm.

It would seem to make much more sense for you to carry them out with you, than to leave them for the next people who use the area. Burying them just provides them with a nice place to rest while waiting for the next person to dig a hole for another deposit.

Or perhaps, you mark the spot with a little plastic bio-hazard flag.

Ken
We ALL are infected...the body human is a bag of infection...that we can survive ourselves is one of life's little mysteries. So, I carry it out...where does it ultimately end up? Will the plastic bag I so tenderly store it in break down(biodegrade) any faster than its contents? Every time you sneeze or cough, you are expelling staphlococcus aureus...it LIVES in all of us...a hole and a shovel works fine for me, and prevents spread...the park services often use pit toilets(don't get me started), and there are acres of leech fields for septic systems...just a few observations...mike
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Old 12-26-2010, 08:45 PM   #84
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Indians Did It...

I find it interesting that one person has this image that you can step out of your trailer and defecate. The vision of the group camper is not the Rockdocker or true dry camper's actuality.

Pack out your feces... great. We do pack out the wife's toilet paper when she urinates in the back country. I am not concerned that a brown bear is going to eat my feces and become ill. I think they are bit more durable that we.

I can see that I am out of other's comfort zones. This is something that reading a book about someone's experiences of back country camping needs to be experienced first hand. If you try it, stay two weeks. Then you will understand. Obviously I cannot get my idea across in a way that will be understood by many. If you can find my camping spots, you already understand. If you can find my camping spot while we are there... it is already too crowded.
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